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This 417 message thread spans 14 pages: < < 417 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13 14 > >     
Backlinks updated Today
Marval




msg:743570
 10:23 pm on Mar 23, 2005 (gmt 0)

Noted a change in backlinks starting today - seems a small increase across sites I look at

 

blend27




msg:743870
 4:47 am on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I see some realy strange things with this update as well.

One of the domain names i've purchased, if i look at the cached date in the snipet Mar 30, 2005 - Cached -, but if I click on the chache page link, it shows me cached page as retrieved on May 20, 2004 04:52:33 GMT.

Thats realy odd. 64.233.179.104

Spine




msg:743871
 7:01 am on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've noticed that with the dates roughly since Allegra (early Feb). Not one that's off by as much as 10 days though.

webspud




msg:743872
 8:19 am on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Spine:
<<Has anybody been badly beat down by this update who was also affected Sept 23rd 2004?>>

We were affected on Sept 23rd too (first time ever on this established site), came back moderately Dec 19th and then came back to August levels mid January. Now hit again by this update.

Can't make no sense of it. It's inconsistent, some subject areas that remained reasonably OK on previous updates are now hit, while others that were affected previously are OK.

Data centres vary and one oddity are terms that were doing OK till now (say 'strawberry widgets' ) that are now not showing on some results at all, while another page, 'bananna widgets' (which makes passing references to 'strawberry widgets' only) is showing in the 'strawberry widgets' search results! In that subject area most compeating sites seem largely unaffected by the update and it seems as if we have been deliberately targeted.

If it's as reseller suggests:
<<The aim of Google is to make it rather difficult for any white hat SEO and spammers to achieve continuous stable top ranking on the serps. Hence forcing, at least commercial sites, to purchase Adwords/Adsense and hence more profit for Google shareholders.>>
Then Google is missing something with our site; many of these pages bring little or no revenue so paying makes no sense for these pages.

I just wish I could see any sort of logic in what's going on!

esllou




msg:743873
 10:14 am on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

we sailed through every bad update there ever was...soared after Florida, swept aloft after Austin and then did an Icarus on February 2nd.

I *am* an authority in my field...links from hundreds of .org and .edu sites, bbc, mainline news organisatios, the works. I say this not to brag but to point out the reality that "authority" sites were being hit back in Feb...not only this week.

I have spent 2 months cleaning my site, not changing it so much as cleaning it...less html, more css, better optimised meta tags and on-page descriptions.

oh, and I made another site...or at least, started it.

This last update doesn't seem to have changed much for us, up 5 or 10% maybe. But we see on the 104 datacentres that we would go up far more if those dc results got put on all dc's.

LostOne




msg:743874
 11:37 am on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

"but perhaps alot of Google's fluctuations have to do with the roll-out of rel="nofollow" and the massive changes and instability in backlinks that would follow"

Makes sense to me--it's all about links anyway. Glad somebody mentioned it!

reseller




msg:743875
 12:16 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

"I just wish I could see any sort of logic in what's going on!"

webspud

Actually there is much logic but we need first to open our minds and accept facts, which we might not like. While everybody see the effects of what is called latest "Updates" its rather difficult for people to accept the "ASSUMPTION" that Google is on its way to reshape its search policy to fit its profitable business model, and nothing wrong in that. Companies are there to make profit to the satisfaction of the owners or shareholders. But there is something wrong in minds of publishers who are insisting that Google is there to serve searchers and publishers.

As I mentioned in a previous post on this thread; I might be very wrong on this. But I still see a pattern in the chaotic present situation. The pattern is "ROTATING ALGO". Today you are at the top. Next month, next week, tomorrow or even an hour from now, you are nowhere on the serps.

The question now is; what are the current "Classic" white hat SEO folks going to do?

If time show that I´m right in my assumptions (and I still say that I might be very wrong), we shall witness the emerge of new "DYNAMIC SEO MASTERS" which shall adopt to the rotating algo and optimize accordingly. Results of future SEO work shall be achieved by executing a DYNAMIC SEO which might be a combination of manual work and implementation of software which shall read, understand and serve pages with almost different contents though targeting the same kleywords/keyphrases. I.e different pages for different rotating algos.
Pls. don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about search engine cloaking and how to cheat the search engines. Not at all.
I'm talking about adopting techniques to match the rotating algo.

God bless you all.

[edited by: reseller at 12:24 pm (utc) on Mar. 31, 2005]

MHes




msg:743876
 12:23 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

>I'm talking about adopting techniques to match the rotating algo

If you are right, the seo approach is multiple websites covering all the different potential algos. This could present new problems for Google, not least an explosion in pages to index.

Reid




msg:743877
 12:25 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

But there is something wrong in minds of publishers who are insisting that Google is there to serve searchers and publishers.

Google is a search engine.
If 'searchers' are not satisfied with results then they will search elsewhere.

The shareholders and the big companies still depend on customers no matter how you slice it.

Google IS there to serve searchers and publishers, that is what a search engine does. The publishers provide the content and the searchers find the content (well hopefully they are able to find it).

BillyS




msg:743878
 12:26 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm looking forward to the PR update that's predicted, or anything else that can put my site where it should be.

Spine - With the fact that PR should be updating any day now, I would think this update has ALREADY been factored into the current set of results.

reseller




msg:743879
 12:37 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Reid

"The shareholders and the big companies still depend on customers no matter how you slice it."

You are 100% right. But the customers of Googel are the advertisers (Adwords/Adsense buyers), and not searchers and publishers.

petehall




msg:743880
 12:51 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Reid
"The shareholders and the big companies still depend on customers no matter how you slice it."

You are 100% right. But the customers of Googel are the advertisers (Adwords/Adsense buyers), and not searchers and publishers.

Very good point!

Although without searchers and publishers, there would of course be no customers :)

For what it's worth I think Google is doing a fantastic job of late.

Liane




msg:743881
 12:52 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm talking about adopting techniques to match the rotating algo.

Well, if you think about that statement ... SEO (as we know it) really isn't required in order to be successful on Google. If you are correct in that there is a rotating algo, then any old page will do provided the author is "somewhat" on target as far as navigation, keyword targeting, title, description, etc.

Personally, I haven't seen any signs of a "rotating algo" but I have seen signs of algo changes, shifts and rollbacks.

I think there is a very good possibility that a specific set of rules within an algorithm which seemed to work better three or four months ago may be brought back every now and again as the engineers tweak this knob or dial back that one ... in order to see which combination of priorities within any given algo deliver the results Google is after.

But I wouldn't call that "rotating" ... I'd call it "testing". As long as the results delivered are relevant to the search, Google doesn't care what affect it has on individual websites. Relevant results are relevant results!

If the top 30 or 40 results are all relevant to the keyword search, why would Google give a toss about the order in which the results are offered ... unless you are paying for placement?

webspud




msg:743882
 12:54 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

<<As I mentioned in a previous post on this thread; I might be very wrong on this. But I still see a pattern in the chaotic present situation. The pattern is "ROTATING ALGO". Today you are at the top. Next month, next week, tomorrow or even an hour from now, you are nowhere on the serps.>>
"reseller"

If that's the case then it's starting a cycle of rotating every two month or so for us, and only affecting a certain number of the sites it's listing under each search.

What determins if you become a rotated site rather than one that remains in the search no matter what? Adword purchasing? Adsense publishing?

reseller




msg:743883
 1:14 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

"What determins if you become a rotated site rather than one that remains in the search no matter what? Adword purchasing? Adsense publishing?"

webspud

I can imagine that there will be sites which might be called something like "ESSENTIAL SITES" determined by specific factors in the rotating algos of Google´s own choosing.

For example: If I search for "usa states department", the site of the usa states department and few other related sites shall be allways on top. The rest shall rotate like a hell :)

Hanu




msg:743884
 1:17 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

And why would they do that? I can't see any benefit for G in it. What they do after each algo update is some kind of quality control, that tells them whether people find what they expect and where in the serps they find it. Sometimes this'll lead them to withdraw an algo update or parts of it, if it doesn't meet their expectations. This in turn could create the impression of "now I'm up, know I'm down" but there's no scheduled rotation as in "this week I'm up, next week I'm down and in two weeks I'll be up again".

elingo




msg:743885
 1:42 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

Having read through the 300-odd posts, I'm just glad I'm not the only one, though I have been affected more than most so I fancied a moan.

I have developed a large site in a competitive market, with quality content, no spammy techniques whatsoever, no screen-scraping etc. I have worked very hard, gradually improving the SEO whilst keep my users in mind.

Over the last eight months the traffic has risen steadily from hardly anything to a level where it earns me a reasonable income. Late last week, like many people on here I dropped to nowhere. I am now receiving about 12% of the traffic I received in the previous month, as Google generated the large majority of my visitors.

So I'm slightly devastated and hope to god this is a temporary change.

The strangest thing is that if I search on my domain name alone (minus the www. & .com), where before I came top (obviously, being an 'invented' word), I see 3 pages ranking higher than my homepage that simply list my site!

This is bizarre - I have a DMOZ listing, a Yahoo listing and many other decent inbound links. What the heckety-heck is going on?

I think I might resort to praying each night before bed :(

sifredi




msg:743886
 1:53 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

The strangest thing is that if I search on my domain name alone (minus the www. & .com), where before I came top (obviously, being an 'invented' word), I see 3 pages ranking higher than my homepage that simply list my site!

That sounds like typical sandbox behaviour. Does your domain name contain a "money" word? Sounds strange that the sandbox would kick in 8 months later, but I've seen stranger things...

I wouldn't panic though, serps are changin by the hour so just sit tight until the fog has cleared.

reseller




msg:743887
 1:58 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Well, if you think about that statement ... SEO (as we know it) really isn't required in order to be successful on Google."

Liane

On the contrary. The new Dynamic SEO Masters (DSEOMs) shall have more that enough to do. Compared to today "Classic" SEO specialists who are optimizing for one set of algo, the DSEOMs should optimize to match several sets of algos. I.e there will be more need in future for DSEOMs than todays classic SEOs.

[edited by: reseller at 2:12 pm (utc) on Mar. 31, 2005]

mfishy




msg:743888
 2:04 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

If you are right, the seo approach is multiple websites covering all the different potential algos.

Bingo!

reseller




msg:743889
 3:17 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

<This in turn could create the impression of "now I'm up, know I'm down" but there's no scheduled rotation as in "this week I'm up, next week I'm down and in two weeks I'll be up again".>

Hanu

I wrote about "Rotating Algos" which isn't necessary the same as "Alternating" predictable algos as you describe.

georgeek




msg:743890
 3:28 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

The new Dynamic SEO Masters (DSEOMs) shall have more that enough to do.

<acronym title="Dynamic Search Engine Optimization Master">DSEOM</acronym>

Good one reseller :)

LOL


europeforvisitors




msg:743891
 3:48 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

But the customers of Googel are the advertisers (Adwords/Adsense buyers), and not searchers and publishers.

Yes, and those advertisers require traffic--a.k.a. users who are confident that Google can supply the search results they want. Rotating search results would tend to drive away such users.

reseller




msg:743892
 4:28 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

<Yes, and those advertisers require traffic--a.k.a. users who are confident that Google can supply the search results they want.>

EFV

To be more specific: advertisers require TRAGETED traffic which I doubt that Google is providing at present.

<Rotating search results would tend to drive away such users.>

And "Rotating search results" might generate UNTARGETED traffic and ultimately unsatisfied searchers.

IMHO.. if Google proceed with "Rotating Algos", Amazon will soon start selling a new e-book: "How to Shoot Yourself in the Foot ....the Google Way" By GG :)

kamikaze Optimizer




msg:743893
 4:40 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have a funny feeling that the next 96 hours are going to be interesting.

One of my sites is a large and popular forum. GoogleBot visits about 8000-10,000 pages a day. At 7:00AM EST today, GoogleBot pulled out.

Knowing that, and today being the last day of the 1/4, tomorrow April Fools,..., I just have this feeling...

RichTC




msg:743894
 4:48 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

This hasnt settled down yet. Give it chance.
Google would be dam stupid to introduce results on a rotation. Users would very quickly switch search engines. The public want the MOST relevent result every time. If google dont provide this users know that MSN and Yahoo are an alternative and once Google lose the business they will struggle to get it back.

Its going to be mixed whilst it settles if you ask me

randle




msg:743895
 5:01 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

I guess it’s certainly possible but for our sites, and sectors we work, we haven’t seen anything that would suggest “rotating” results. Results jump around dramatically more than they used to, and the data centers rarely all line up, but nothing that looks like an organized “rotating” presentation of search results.

What do people see relative to this? Any patterns emerging?

ownerrim




msg:743896
 5:37 pm on Mar 31, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Rotating search results would tend to drive away such users."

Absolutely. Had a friend complain recently that he can't find a site he likes--and had previously found on google--by using a standard search term. He gave up on google, went to yahoo and found it with this search parameter.

My friend is a network professional, highly educated. And he does what a lot of people do: they don't remember the site url or bookmark the site. They find it with a search term, and later when they want to go to the site again, they plug in the same search term to "find it" again.

Rotating algos screw around with this.

reseller




msg:743897
 6:15 am on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

Good morning

Very nice sunny day here where I live. Though temp is still around 5 C. The spring has just arrived and its time to do some spring cleaning of websites :)

I wish to ask a simple question especially you who are keeping a close eye on the Data centers:

Some of you have mentioned that they get different ranking for your specific keywords/keyphrases in different data centers. The question is:

Is it possible that Google has been using different centers with different algos in serving "Rotating Algos" in the serps.

I´m asking this question because I have also noticed several times during a month or so that my tracker shows a searcher arriving from Google at a page on my site for specific search phrase. Then clicking the link on my tracker to end on a Google serp which doesn´t contain any reference to my page. I.e the algos has changed "ROTATED" since the visit of the searcher.

Thanks!

sandyeggo




msg:743898
 7:01 am on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

There's no way Google would use rotating algos in my opinion. The users of google including some of us here would end up using another search engine when looking for good results. It is all about the user experience. Rotating results does not provide a positive experience for anyone, and as much as I want people to find my site on google, i would probably use another search engine that would give me consistantly good results. Google is not that dumb.

goofy




msg:743899
 7:34 am on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

{shows a searcher arriving from Google at a page on my site for specific search phrase)
a bit out of topic but for me was the right coicidence for a ticky thing that i've noticed today,looking to my logs i have a visitor that for the last 5 hours keep on hiting my page on a specifical key phrase (from Google search ).Does anyone has an idea what is the reason that this scambug keep on clicking my page and wasting my bndwch?

MHes




msg:743900
 7:49 am on Apr 1, 2005 (gmt 0)

goofy

Log spamming. Are your stats pages indexed?

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