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301 redirects indexed and cached
www replaced by non-www
Yidaki




msg:728666
 12:48 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Obviously the same problem as mentioned in january in this thread: google 301 redirect problem [webmasterworld.com]:

One of my sites' www-pages are delisted since the last google update. If i search for exact phrases i only find the pages without the www although they use a working 301 redirect to the www domain. Strange: the non-www pages are labeled as supplemental results and if i click the "More results from example.com", Google returns the www-pages. The cache of the non-www pages shows all relative links as non-www links - which is a proof that the non-www pages are indexed and cached.

301 redirects are not working anymore in google ...

 

glitterball




msg:728667
 6:14 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yep, I have the same problem.

bhartzer




msg:728668
 6:31 pm on Mar 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

I, too, am seeing the same thing. 301 Permanent Redirects are acting differently than the way they used to work.

Perhaps they've changed something recently to try to stop people from buying domains and 301'ing them to other sites?

Yidaki




msg:728669
 9:34 am on Mar 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

hmm, this is a massive error, no!? I wonder why there are so few comments ...

pmkpmk




msg:728670
 10:15 am on Mar 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Er... there are people who say thet 301's never worked right, but since Allegra they DO! Who is wrong now?

Emmett




msg:728671
 5:18 pm on Mar 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Er... there are people who say thet 301's never worked right, but since Allegra they DO! Who is wrong now?

I had a problem with google recognising the "redirect 301 sitename.com www.sitename.com" in apache. I changed it to a mod rewrite 301 redirect and now all the backward links show the same for sitename.com and www.sitename.com.

Maybe it was a bug in the version of apache I'm running.

If course I'm still being hit by the filter=0 problem but thats an unrelated story.

McMohan




msg:728672
 6:07 pm on Mar 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Relying on Google to treat 301 reliably is like relying on a sunny day in Amazons.

Had a site 301 about a month back and its pronto followed by Google already. Another site done 301 almost 6 months back, still shows up as a URL only, worse ranks too for its targeted term :)

Mc

(Added: Ironically, just about to advise a multi billion bank site to do a 301 one of its duplicate site, rather reluctantly.. huh.)

theBear




msg:728673
 7:43 pm on Mar 9, 2005 (gmt 0)


I had a problem with google recognising the "redirect 301 sitename.com www.sitename.com" in apache. I changed it to a mod rewrite 301 redirect and now all the backward links show the same for sitename.com and www.sitename.com.

The format for an apache redirect is

Redirect status URLpath URL

Note URLpath is not domain name

From the Apache manual:

Directives use a great number of different argument types. A few common ones are defined below.

URL
A complete Uniform Resource Locator including a scheme, hostname, and optional pathname as in [example.com...]

URL-path
The part of a url which follows the scheme and hostname as in /path/to/file.html. The url-path represents a web-view of a resource, as opposed to a file-system view.

crobb305




msg:728674
 9:22 am on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Is the 301 problem limited to Google? Have you had problems with other SEs?

Yidaki




msg:728675
 1:06 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Not sure if you ask me, crobb305? For me only google has a problem with this 301. And only with this specific site. And it changes daily. Today, the www-domain is indexed (and listed). Yesterday, the non-www domain was indexed (but only found for a inurl search - not for any of the keywords).

Vec_One




msg:728676
 3:40 pm on Mar 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

My site was completely dropped from the index with the last udate. At first, the site: command produced zero results for my domain. Then, it occasionally dislayed another site with a redirect to one of my pages. A few days later, it began displaying a second site. Now, there are six other sites in the results.

AFAIK, a site: search should only show pages from within that given site. Does this mean that Google thinks my site is actually six different distinct sites, non of which is the right one? That seems like an obvious glitch to me.

jonrichd




msg:728677
 10:30 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just to add another confirmation to this, I have a client with half a dozen domain names. Before I came aboard, they all just pointed to the same URI with no redirection. I fixed the problem by using IIS Manager to redirect the other domains permanently to the one we wanted (They're on IIS), which eventually caused Google to consolidate everything properly.

Looking through a site: command, I see that some of the other domains are back, just a few oddball pages from the interior of the site, as supplemental results. I used the server header checker, and they all still seem to be redirecting properly.

Marval




msg:728678
 10:40 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

One thing you ought to be checking in Apache is in the conf file to make sure your host has the servername entered correctly as www.domain.com and not domain.com.
If it is the latter, any time you have a directory link, i.e.

href="/newdir"

apache sees that it is a directory, issues a 301 redirect with the
ServerName. That is probably how google is finding the other domain

Marval




msg:728679
 10:49 pm on Mar 11, 2005 (gmt 0)

Yidaki - this has actually been going on since July of last year - its just starting to show its effects recently - there is some problem which I still cant pin down in how they are handling not only 301s, but stacked domains (you buy the .net and .org for protection, no zone file entries, all pointing at the same IP) and those are being split out as well by Google where very large sites are being split into many vanity domains.

As far as whether 301s worked before and now dont - I can say that its a good statement.

theBear - that is correct for directories however it is not the correct way to redirect an entire domain I dont believe

bhartzer - I believe that is 302's that they have been working on to prevent what you are describing - although it may be leading to this problem but the 301 problem first appeared in July and surfaced with the SERPs update on Aug 14th last year

Emmett - I believe the filter=0 is entirely related to this as a downline effect from the change in the algorithm, or very possibly in the coding of the new Googlebot although you would think that they would have tested that end of things

theBear




msg:728680
 5:16 am on Mar 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Marval,

Suggest you read the Apache documentation.

I'm only telling you that the redirect may not be working because it isn't in the proper form.

Computers are literal devices and there are loads of places that programs go bad, one gets nailed by stupid mistookes all the time.

You test redirects using a header checker.

You can also check your logs to find out what the bots get and do.

You really should use mod rewrite and make certain that only one name gets passed by a 301 for stacked and www and non-www domain names.

I use both kinds of redirect methods and have stacked domains with and without the www prefix.

Marval




msg:728681
 12:45 pm on Mar 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

theBear - actually I agree that if you have to do it externally this would be a much better way?
Options +FollowSymLinks
RewriteEngine on
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^domain\.com
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ [domain.com...]
[R=permanent,L]

(probably not correctly formatted due to the message restrictions)

However Im still convinced that it might be a simple conf file setup problem in most cases where the hosts are not setting up the servername properly as www.domain.com instead of the "standard" entry of domain.com

theBear




msg:728682
 4:04 pm on Mar 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Marval,

There is a conf file option it is called:

ServerAlias www.example.com example.com etc etc......

This config option is but one part of the site split apart problem.

The other being relative urls without a base in the html. Or in the alternative a set of rewrite rules.

Of course one shouldn't forget that it is possible to also hit your site (home page in particular) from its ip addy (if it isn't shared). However I'd expect the ip addy form of the problem to go supplemental rather fast the one exception being if it had a very high pr link to it.

There is interaction between all of these parameters, however most folks my not have access to the base server configuration.

It is best to read the entire Apache (or your favorite server) documentation for all references to domain.

I'm sure that will open a lot of eyes.

MikeNoLastName




msg:728683
 8:17 pm on Mar 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed:
In the past, assuming www.xyz.com is your primary domain, looking at xyz.com with the Google toolbar usually showed a relatively low PR1 or PR2. I just noticed, that it is now showing the exact same (higher)PR as my primary www.xyz.com.
Is this a recent change?

Emmett




msg:728684
 4:09 am on Mar 14, 2005 (gmt 0)


One thing you ought to be checking in Apache is in the conf file to make sure your host has the servername entered correctly as www.domain.com and not domain.com.
If it is the latter, any time you have a directory link, i.e.
href="/newdir"

apache sees that it is a directory, issues a 301 redirect with the
ServerName. That is probably how google is finding the other domain

I'm glad you said that! I didn't even think of it. I've been doing the non-www for servername all along. Doh!

Sweet Cognac




msg:728685
 4:17 am on Mar 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

I got suspicious that the same thing was happening to my website. Yesterday I was checking my stats and ran across a URL for my website I had never seen before. It was without the www. It was mark "supplemental" and the cache on it was Nov 3. That's the time my pages started slowly disappearing from Google.

I went to my server, as you suggested, to see what they were using and sure enough, they are using the domain without the www.

All this time I have been using my domain with the www. no wonder Google is confused.
I found a script inside their forum that said to add this to my .htaccess to force the www.

RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST}!^www\.
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http:// www.%{HTTP_HOST}/$1 [R=301,L]

And it works! It forces the www. but is it too late? Or does it matter now? Has something changed in Google? I checked the backlinks for my domain with the www and without the www and the backlinks are the same. Hmmm

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