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Have We Been Foolish and How Do We Rectify?
hellier




msg:726039
 8:24 am on Feb 10, 2005 (gmt 0)

Ok, we throw are hands up. 18 months ago we created what I guess you would class as 'spam' sites, which contained many many pages to try and point hits to a few main sites we had.

We have come to the realisation that whilst at the time this gave us a great deal of success, we believe Google has dropped any sites on our server from the Google listings, genuine or otherwise.

Whilst in hignsight I can see we were silly to do it (though other high-ranking sites gave us the idea), we would like to try and rememdy the problem.

We have deactivated all of the sites with the spider pages from our server, but I wondered if this was enough to get back in the 'good books', or whether we simply had to wait a 'period of time'?

I am presuming that our server is on some sort of 'black list'?

All part of the learning process I guess - but any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

 

activeco




msg:726040
 1:53 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

18 months ago we created what I guess you would class as 'spam' sites, which contained many many pages to try and point hits to a few main sites we had.
We have come to the realisation that whilst at the time this gave us a great deal of success, we believe Google has dropped any sites on our server from the Google listings, genuine or otherwise.

Whilst in hignsight I can see we were silly to do it ...

Why is everyone a penitent only when he get caught?

I am presuming that our server is on some sort of 'black list'?

I believe the same. I would definitely find another clean server.
Fortunately for you, Google doesn't punish in a long term, at least not for now.
As soon as you make the things straight, after next update, you should be where they think you really belong to.

larryhatch




msg:726041
 2:23 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Well, at least the guy candidly confessed his sins.

I'd recommend 10 Our Fathers, and 10 Hail Marys for penance, then find an entirely new host.

If that isn't enough, it might require sack-cloth and ashes and a new domain name.

Google knows when you are sleeping, G knows when you're awake.
G knows if you've been blackhat bad, so be good for Google's sake. - Larry [burp!]

john316




msg:726042
 3:06 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

If it worked for 18 months why is it foolish? Have you considered going for another 18 (doing it again)?

larryhatch




msg:726043
 4:55 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Call me an idiot.

I prefer to believe that evil defeats itself by it own nature.
No great supernal judge or jury is needed.
Evil defeats itself by its own intrinsic self defeating nature.

vabtz




msg:726044
 5:04 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

lol

you compared bad SEO to being evil

you should be embarrassed.

john316




msg:726045
 5:41 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

Is it evil to create it or rank it well?

AjiNIMC




msg:726046
 5:57 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

We have deactivated all of the sites with the spider pages from our server, but I wondered if this was enough to get back in the 'good books', or whether we simply had to wait a 'period of time'?

No, not atleast for the future, I am sure SE bots with a different IP will try to reach beyond robots.txt to ensure a fair deal.

BigDave




msg:726047
 9:01 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

I do find it ironic, and somewhat disturbing to get such advice from someone that chose the name John316.

Chico_Loco




msg:726048
 9:18 pm on Feb 12, 2005 (gmt 0)

G knows if you've been blackhat bad

I beg to differ. For this to be a valid statement they'd know the converse (when you've been whitehat good).

If this were true, then the latest update would not have seen many whitehat sites completely disappear from the SERPS. Now, I can't verify that these sites were whitehat, I'm afaid you'll just have to trust me.

I always always stick to the guidelines, but I have some very complex linking structures designed which Google would probably NEVER be capable of detecting (it's all mathematics). If I were to implement those, I could almost certainly be number 1 for the keyword of my choice, with some work.

I have no plans to put these plans in motion, but when I look at the results, I see spammers doing pretty well and have to question why I don't bother doing it - they make a pretty penny from it, so why bother being so whitehat anyway, because in the end you usually get screwed anyway. If you were blackhat, you might make a mass of money in a short time, get banned - move on with the money made, do the same and some forth - you'd probably make more with a good idea.

larryhatch




msg:726049
 12:00 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hello Chico:

In return, I deg to biffer: The speed-cop may or
may not catch nephew Paco going too fast.
Failure to catch Paco does NOT guarantee his innocence.

All of this seems a distraction from the main discussion.

The point is, how can scaperscam (see above)
get away with his phony links and so on?

I would like to know myself: not for
emulation mind you, but for negative examples.

I'm running a little short of Via6ra myself
and need a new mattress. The old one is really
a mess, it is sticking the ends of old springs
right thru my skin!

I am afraid to use search engines to find a
better mattress, they all look so commercial.

Maybe I should ask the cousin of my former
barber.

Best -Larry

PS: Bed is "full" sized, i.e. a bit smaller than
"queen",
what used to be called a "double beed."

Same goes for the box springs. The old box must have fallen off a ship from North Korea.
Need a complete set of two soft well-made sleep objects.

Whoever delivers all this will need a truck to haul away the &%$@# debris.
Non-reactive senses of smell and vision a plus as long as he can drive a truck.

Please keep prices well below one kilobuck if feasible and sensible.

- LH

Chico_Loco




msg:726050
 12:22 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm not very smart, but I have no idea what the point in that last post was, nor how it negates my post.

larryhatch




msg:726051
 12:34 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry: I had no intention of seconding nor refuting your last post.
I just need a new mattress. - LH

incrediBILL




msg:726052
 12:39 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

[laughing and in tears]

chico, you may think you're loco, but larry runs a UFO web site, you are out of your league.

nuevojefe




msg:726053
 1:04 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hmm, no wonder this happened [webmasterworld.com...]

Back OT, to the OP: Ditch your host, put each of your main sites on new class IPs and if you can, change some of your content and structure a bit. While you're at it, do a general quality check. Make sure you're not linking to bad neighborhoods or interlinking inappropriately.

[edited by: nuevojefe at 1:05 am (utc) on Feb. 13, 2005]

Chico_Loco




msg:726054
 1:05 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sorry: I had no intention of seconding nor refuting your last post.

:) Ha ha ha

chico, you may think you're loco, but larry runs a UFO web site, you are out of your league.

Ha ha ha ha - Excellent. This has put me in a good mood. Always nice to end the week on a good note!

Peace out for the weekend everyone, hope when we come back on Monday there are some changes for the better in Google!

nuevojefe




msg:726055
 1:06 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Oh and Welcome to Webmaster World hellier. Sorry you had to experience the hijacking of a thread so early on.

nippi




msg:726056
 1:17 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

The thread was hijacked, because there are few SEO experts left here, who will provide much sympathy or advice to a spammer.

Fine, do the wrong thing, but if you get busted, find your own way out of gaol. There is no free card.

walkman




msg:726057
 1:25 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

"The thread was hijacked, because there are few SEO experts left here, who will provide much sympathy or advice to a spammer."

he admitted he screwed up and wants to make good. They're plenty of others who just keep doing it and doing it with different domains. Unless you kill someone eventually usually you get another chance.

frances




msg:726058
 1:36 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am taking on a site that has been on a redirect to the server company's site for a few months. I presume as a result, Google has no cache or pages from the site in its index - all it brings up for a site:www.example.com command is a link.

Does this site also need a new server? ip address? or should time mend things?

incrediBILL




msg:726059
 1:40 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

talk about hijacking a thread....

larryhatch




msg:726060
 2:33 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

This thread started with Hellier who openly admitted that his black-hat stuff backfired.
That's an honest admission of guilt, and I reduce the sentence to 8 Our Fathers
(Pater Nosters) instead of the usual ten.

It takes some guts to publicly say "I f***ed up".
How many people reading these lines will do the same?

I might, but only if I knew how in the first place. I leave those matters to scum scrapers and theologians.

Meanwhile, I am left with a 30 years old mattress and box-spring set that forever tortures me.

Every day on my way to work I see a billboard with a high maintenance lady who would prefer better bedding to say the least.

I will pay a little extra if the delivery person can keep his juvenile mouth shut.

Please do not recommend Florists and "Luxury Hotels in Antarctica" and that stuff.

Sell me a mattress / box spring set.
Send a good mannered (dense) fellow in a truck of appropriate size.
Quality requiresd. I don't want to see these
problems 1 2 or 5 years from now. I need to
put this matter " to bed ".

Best wishes

- Larry Hatch

HughMungus




msg:726061
 2:46 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

he admitted he screwed up and wants to make good. They're plenty of others who just keep doing it and doing it with different domains. Unless you kill someone eventually usually you get another chance.

I read the original post as, "How do I start over so I can do this again?"

larryhatch




msg:726062
 2:46 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

I apologize for hiu-jacking this thread.

Try to imagine leaving this thread intact while your 40-years
old mattress is stabbing you in all over the place.

I think there are two (and a half) major action items here.

For the sake of foreign visitors I define an "action item"
as an ugly job, assigned to you, by a comittee which is
unprepared to do anything other than assign action items
to virtually anybody _else_ in sight.

Not even Russian taxi-cab drivers are safe, not even in America.

nuevojefe




msg:726063
 2:54 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Honestly - Larry,

Are you on a bender or what? It's not even remotely funny anymore and I am just bewildered at how you can post an apology and then continue to hijack the thread. This one is so far gone, with maybe 1/10 being actually relevant, it doesn't really matter anymore.

But c'mon let's try to regain some sanity.

incrediBILL




msg:726064
 3:22 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think Larry was probed by one of those UFO's he writes about on his web site and they shorted something.

But I digress.....

Hellier, get a new domain and start over, just don't inflate your own PR this time.

I had a customer that did the same thing to his ecommerce site. It was hopping and taking orders, then his greedy SEO antics landed him in hot water with rampant cross-linking and his traffic started plunging 10 months ago and flat-lined 8 months ago when his SEPR completely vanished from sight. His business is on life support at this moment and the first time his credit card doesn't clear i'm pulling the plug.

larryhatch




msg:726065
 3:30 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Apologies to all. I am indeed on one of my locally famous benders.
Better sense will follow. Thanks, -Larry

irishaff




msg:726066
 3:58 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Clean up the domain and move host. Neither of these will cost you any money. Once you are as clean as whistle submit a reinclusion request to google but dont hold your breath

If possible start cooking a second domain, its hard to " speculate " when google will take you out of the sin bin. Keep it clean!

nippi




msg:726067
 4:52 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

Sandbox now prevents this being done easily(repeating a spam tactic over and over in different domains) as you get busted for it, before you get rankings.

ON topic however, I am yet to see a site that received a permanent penalty. Fix your spam and your site will recover. Do it again, and likely you will get caught again.

Its jsut as easy to white hat, as black hat, so follow the light(not into a spaceship)

Stefan




msg:726068
 5:17 am on Feb 13, 2005 (gmt 0)

We have come to the realisation that whilst at the time this gave us a great deal of success, we believe Google has dropped any sites on our server from the Google listings, genuine or otherwise.

It might not be the server itself, it could just be the domains and the linking method.

We have deactivated all of the sites with the spider pages from our server, but I wondered if this was enough to get back in the 'good books', or whether we simply had to wait a 'period of time'?

To be honest, the main sites that had all the spam sites pointing to them might be permanent casualities.

I am presuming that our server is on some sort of 'black list'?

The server might not be, but the domains are, as above.

All part of the learning process I guess - but any advice anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.

You might have to start over from scratch, using a different server to be on the safe side, but with the sandbox nonsense still in effect with G, it makes it more difficult. Perhaps don't totally abandon the original domains that were important, that everything was pointed at, but register another domain and start working at that, by adding lots of content, (different enough that there are no dupe content problems), and getting backlinks etc.

Good luck, man. Sorry that your effort to elicit help here ran into problems in this thread. Don't see it as totally indicative of what can be learned at WW. And welcome aboard.

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