homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.163.70.249
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google SEO News and Discussion
Forum Library, Charter, Moderators: Robert Charlton & aakk9999 & brotherhood of lan & goodroi

Google SEO News and Discussion Forum

This 610 message thread spans 21 pages: < < 610 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 21 > >     
Update Allegra Part 2 Update 2-2-2005
Macro




msg:752948
 11:51 am on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

complain about a real problem

Can't see the sandbox being a "real" problem, or a problem at all. It's there to stop the SPAM. If I start a new company called Mesothelioma Lawyers Ltd you reckon I should show up in the top 500 purely because that's my company name?

Sure, the "sandbox", whatever it is, hurts some. It hurts people who are creating sites for free traffic. Many of them are spammers/freeloaders. It also hurts others. They - particularly anyone starting a new business with a business plan that relies on free SE traffic - are probably better off staying unemployed (or employed if they can find a job). Any new site starting off on the premise that free traffic will sustain it deserves to fail.

So, if you remove the sandbox as a reasonable cause for complaint, and remove most of the other whining, we'd reduce this thread to one page and those that can't even be bothered to read it will get a personal reply from Googleguy because he owes them.

 

max_mm




msg:753008
 4:41 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Our biggest mistake was to promote G to our viewers, family and clients all these years.

G is no longer the big fair authoravite search engine I thought and wished it was,
“Changing the web for the better” , LOL LOL LOL.

Seams like whatever algo/indexing criteria G is implementing now is purely and evidently designed to push millions of web developers WW into the G adwords program (if they wish to see any google hits on their logs). The new algo is clearly designed to take into account sites with adsense code on and to favour or kick out (off the serps) according to the adsense/adwords program targets and needs.

REGARDLESS OF THE CONTENT YOU ARE OFFERING TO YOUR VIEWERS, SITE QUALITY, BACKLINKES, SITE AGE etc. It doe’s not seam to matter anymore. It is now just about money and bottom lines and share holders meetings.

Watch them continue to round up the entire web and suffocate millions of small businesses around the world. If you think this algo affected a couple of your sites, just wait, you ain’t seen nothing yet.

It is now in every webmaster best interest to proactively promote to their viewers G’s competition or there will hardly be anyone visiting these board a year or two from now. The vast majority of us we’ll be too busy with our day jobs.

BTW GG
I have never seen the SERPs in such bad state. I did a search for a few popular sites I normally visit and all I could get were sites linking to these sites while the correct site is berried way far down the list. Great update/algo indeed.

My 50 cents per click ;)

[edited by: max_mm at 4:47 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2005]

wanderingmind




msg:753009
 4:46 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

SERPs in such bad state?

How can you say that? SERPs are just not stable yet. At the moment, I can see three different sets of results on the data centers. And on google.com or any of the other google regionals, they keep switching.

This update is like hell not over.

What I cant understand is, the so -called new results, they seem to spreading to other datacenters, then disappearing too. then back again. what gives?

The uncertainty - whcih of the 3 different SERPs is gonna be the the final one - is killing me.

walkman




msg:753010
 4:49 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

"How can you say that? SERPs are just not stable yet. At the moment, I can see three different sets of results on the data centers. And on google.com or any of the other google regionals, they keep switching. "

question: Are those datacenters (mentioned a few posts before) used by G to serve results for different regions?

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:753011
 4:53 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

For example sites (that don't spam or black hat) can drop by no more than 10 or 20 positions per update.

They would perhaps consider this if they could but they can't. They can't even find text that is the same colour as the background. I still find sites that use this. Yesterday I found a simple Frontpage site in the top position with the following code

<body bgcolor="#74685A" ...

then at the bottom of the page

<font color="#74685A" ... then a long list of spammed keywords and phrases

In this context the algo is obviously not very clever. What more proof do you need that it cannot cope with black hat techniques as basic as this? No style sheets, no fancy tricks, just plain old HTML. The truth is that the algo is just not up to the job. They need to stop these damaging updates and introduce some manual editing but they won't.

(P.S. If you want to use this technique why not go right ahead? It seems to be quite safe and it still works. The only danger would be if someone blows you in :o)

max_mm




msg:753012
 4:54 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)


How can you say that? SERPs are just not stable yet.

Well GG is allready collecting feedback. I guss it is over guys.

itloc




msg:753013
 5:02 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

It is impossible that this uüdate is over. Too much fluctuations on the dcs and still extremely strange search results in my industry.

And my website is still not showing up correctly for its real name. No black hat techniques here, no cheating but excellent fresh content. No spam and a very large site...

If my site disappeared - every site can disappear...

itloc

walkman




msg:753014
 5:07 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

itloc,
[webmasterworld.com...]
GoogleGuy on message 804: "we test everything in depth before deploy it to ensure that the changes improve quality"
meaning that they're happy enough with it, otherwise they wouldn't have released it. I think it's over.

Dayo_UK




msg:753015
 5:07 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

It could be over.

Macro has made some good points (amongst other I disagree with) but ......

If I start a new company called Mesothelioma Lawyers Ltd you reckon I should show up in the top 500 purely because that's my company name?

Is a very good point when coming down on the companies name argument.

I dont agree with this update Google has done but it is a reflection of the web/spammers out there.

dupac




msg:753016
 5:08 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Update over or not?
I am seeing different result on diff data center.
Anyways, even though our site is totally wiped out, I won't be crying about it. The results now show other sites on top.

But what I am seeing is that new sites has similar anchor text coming to their website. This is kind of really strong thing I am seeing. Anyone else seeing this also?

Also there are 3 things here
1) Site totally wiped out
2) Sites out of "Sandbox"
3) Shuffles among the results

Point 1 is bad for peolpe like me.
2 is good for all of us as our new sites out of it.
3 good and bad depending on who went up or down.

Anyone who lost their site (related to point 1):
1) We changed our hosting company (really good one now) like 2 months ago
2) % of the Anchor text of the incoming links is less and varied somewhat
3) Interlinking between different pages of site is not that much. Maximum say 200 pages links to one page out of more than 2000 pages.
4) Google keep showing different total page with site:wwWebmasterWorldebsite.com

Present google shows: 70K pages ( we are no where here)
64.233.171.99 shows 130k (we are doing awesome here)

Both of them showing almost same number of incoming link to home page.

cleanup




msg:753017
 5:13 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

"GoogleGuy collecting feedback, so it is over then."

Is the GoogleGuy the Fat Lady then? and Is he going to sing something?

Kangol




msg:753018
 5:14 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Is a very good point when coming down on the companies name argument."

Nope. This is not a good point. How many companies are called that way? How about the rest of the 99% of all the other companies that are not found for their names?
Sites should get found after their names.

mfishy




msg:753019
 5:16 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

this was before the filter or whatever they did on the 5-6th was applied. I rule on those serps! However, I think the update is over and we're screwed.

You are correct. I said this yesterday but no one wanted to listen. The DC's that include many of the missing sites are going to be history soon. It's over. GG soliciting free quality control from here solidifies this as there is no reason for him to want feedback if the results were not finished dancing.

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:753020
 5:18 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

The new algo is clearly designed to take into account sites with adsense code on and to favour or kick out (off the serps) according to the adsense/adwords program targets and needs.

Not true, I had a totally innocent Adsense site that was kicked into oblivion.

Dayo_UK




msg:753021
 5:19 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

Kangol

I know, I am just feeling resigned and depressed over the nature of the web. :( (and have spent the afternoon down the pub)

Dayo

[edited by: Dayo_UK at 5:20 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2005]

hunderdown




msg:753022
 5:19 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

I am getting really tired of hearing the conspiracy theorists -- <paraphrase> "Google makes the SERPs bad on purpose to push people into AdWords" </paraphrase>.

But I've never seen any real EVIDENCE posted that supports this. Did I miss it?

FWIW, in the areas I look at, this update has either improved the results or done no harm, if you define improvement as "getting off-topic or garbage sites out of the top results."

g1smd




msg:753023
 5:23 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

This thread was continued from: [webmasterworld.com...] (which is usually edited into the first post of the new thread to help people find the questions asked there which are answered here; somehow that edit didn't happen this time).

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:753024
 5:24 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

How many companies are called that way? How about the rest of the 99% of all the other companies that are not found for their names?

Absolutely! One of my clients has a business name that is something zany (funny-phrase) and unrelated to the site content in any way. The domain name is funny-phrase.com and it is no where to be found. I mean not in the first 700 results. This is a fault. It has nothing to do with SEO.

itloc




msg:753025
 5:25 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

One very simple example:

You have a company called Widget. You have a website widget.com. You have a listing in DMOZ for Widget, pointing to Widget.com. And you have a Listing in Yahoo pointing to Widget.com. You have thousands of websites linking you.

You have a pagerank above 5

You go to Google and enter "Widget" and it returns a site that has made a link to you? Your website appears on position 65 with a subpage widget.com/tralala/getreal.htm

NO WAY - but thats exactly how the index is at the moment...and therefore this update is not over yet.

From my experience: Google is not stupid and they have some excellent people. But shuffling and weighting so many pages needs a lot of time. I am amazed that is even possible...

Years ago i did some larger realtime financial systems (stock market data) and i learned one thing: it needs time to process large amounts of data.

itloc

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:753026
 5:26 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

I know, I am just feeling resigned and depressed over the nature of the web. (and have spent the afternoon down the pub)

LOL. Perhaps this would be a good time for you to provide GG with some feedback?

djgreg




msg:753027
 5:27 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

At the moment I don't think it is over. There are several DCs which show different sets of results.
Googleguy, I think it would be helpful if you could post which DC you expect to be the next index.
(Yeah I know that's a tall order) ;-)
But come on.
Compare 64.233.161.105 (=DC1) with 64.233.171.99(=DC2)
DC1 has much more pages indexed but DC2 has clearly fresher and better results.

greg

[edited by: djgreg at 5:35 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2005]

Kangol




msg:753028
 5:29 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think that if your comp is called Gargamel LTD then you should rank for this term. If you comp is called Web Marketing LTD than you can rank for this term only if you deserve it – by the nature of the results.

Dayo – I feel you. I could not work anything today. I am just steering at the SEPR from the other DCs. I went to the gym and do serious work out. Each Google update decreases my life with one year. I prefer to do something when G is dancing.

walkman




msg:753029
 5:34 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

"I think that if your comp is called Gargamel LTD then you should rank for this term. If you comp is called Web Marketing LTD than you can rank for this term only if you deserve it – by the nature of the results. "

exactly. Especially if you've been there for ages and have hundreds of backlinks with "Gargamel". At least you should rank higher than a stupid page in directory with 10,000+ pages, that mentions your site name once. I don't see how one wouldn't rank if Google worked normally.

Kangol




msg:753030
 5:38 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

True, True,
SEPR are showing lots of bad stuff right now. For example I did a search for something totally not related to my biz and I found lots of blogs where spammers added their links. But I think that this is old news.

diddlydazz




msg:753031
 5:41 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

my thoughts...

if the update is over why are data centers changing by the minute?

my idea of a settled update is when the data centers are stable (apart from the usual noise) or at least that is how it used to be.

the difference in the amount of results returned by different data centers vary too much for this to be stable, an example for a term we target:

23,100,000 results for one data center
17,500,000 results for another.

so, my question is, is it new Google policy to provide vastly different results to each geographic area?

I too am confused by the fact that googleguy has asked for feedback (when so many here believe the update just aint done).

if it is done then why the big difference in the data centers?

thoughts?

dazz

walkman




msg:753032
 5:47 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

"so, my question is, is it new Google policy to provide vastly different results to each geographic area? "

what if those DCs aren't used to provide Google.com results? They're just there, not accessible by Joe Public

europeforvisitors




msg:753033
 5:47 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

I've got to say that, in one respect, Allegra represents a 1,000% improvement over the pre-Allegra results. When I searched for "[prescription drug] side effects" a week ago, the top 10 results were all for pharmaceutical affiliate pages and scraper directories. Today, the top 10 results are on topic. That's a huge improvement for users--and users, after all, are Google's target audience.

Macro




msg:753034
 5:52 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

In my usual searches I too am seeing a huge improvement in quality (even though I, personally, have lost traffic).

Jon_King




msg:753035
 5:55 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

>>In my usual searches I too am seeing a huge improvement in quality

Well in our industrial areas I have many more .edu and research stuff as opposed to commercial sites. Only time will tell if thats what the searcher wants....

diddlydazz




msg:753036
 5:56 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

<-- In my usual searches I too am seeing a huge improvement in quality -->

any chance of doing a tracert and letting us know which data center you are referring to?

to answer the question of whether the data centers are in use or not is simple.

if people in different locations/countries do a tracert to www.google.com and then report the IP address, we will have a better idea.

dazz

<added> my current DC is 66.102.11.104 </added>

WebFusion




msg:753037
 6:03 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

how about offering an "amnesty" so people are encouraged to send you e-mails? Many, many sites have been effected and it seems like a glitch somewhere. Maybe if you get enough e-mails you guys will be able to see a pattern and figure out what happened. You went through this with the 302 redirects and for days no one sent you any e-mails because they were afraid of being banned when G engineers checked it

You can't possibly be serious...."I'm violating google guidelines to try and rank better than I should, but don't ban me if I tell you the URL of my site that has rightfully dropped in the serps".

Yeah, that makes sense.

walkman




msg:753038
 6:04 pm on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebFusion,
since you chose to misread the post, what's your URL? Put it on your profile. Show us mortals how it's done. Teach us a lesson!

[edited by: walkman at 6:08 pm (utc) on Feb. 9, 2005]

This 610 message thread spans 21 pages: < < 610 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 ... 21 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google SEO News and Discussion
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved