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This 610 message thread spans 21 pages: < < 610 ( 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 > >     
Update Allegra Part 2 Update 2-2-2005
Macro

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 11:51 am on Feb 9, 2005 (gmt 0)

complain about a real problem

Can't see the sandbox being a "real" problem, or a problem at all. It's there to stop the SPAM. If I start a new company called Mesothelioma Lawyers Ltd you reckon I should show up in the top 500 purely because that's my company name?

Sure, the "sandbox", whatever it is, hurts some. It hurts people who are creating sites for free traffic. Many of them are spammers/freeloaders. It also hurts others. They - particularly anyone starting a new business with a business plan that relies on free SE traffic - are probably better off staying unemployed (or employed if they can find a job). Any new site starting off on the premise that free traffic will sustain it deserves to fail.

So, if you remove the sandbox as a reasonable cause for complaint, and remove most of the other whining, we'd reduce this thread to one page and those that can't even be bothered to read it will get a personal reply from Googleguy because he owes them.

 

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 8:45 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Starve as google says there's no problem?"

Why make stuff up? Thwy haven't said that, or anything really.

Google has problems, and has been in relative disarray for a year, but there search results are still far and away superior to their competition. For the most part, every query I do brings up good quality pages and the serps have very little puke these days. There technical failures with hijackings, duplicates, sandboxing, etc., are very serious, but overall the competiton is nowhere to even be seen in the rearview mirror.

walkman



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 9:06 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Why make stuff up? Thwy haven't said that, or anything really. Google has problems, and has been in relative disarray for a year, but there search results are still far and away superior to their competition. For the most part, every query I do brings up good quality pages and the serps have very little puke these days. There technical failures with hijackings, duplicates, sandboxing, etc., are very serious, but overall the competiton is nowhere to even be seen in the rearview mirror."

who is making things up? GoogleGuy said (when we complained about this update) that they test before they release it. I believe that they do test. If it was a problem, would they have released it?

How Google does compared to Y!, or MSN doesn't matter when your own site is essentially banned, so that statement is irrelevant. I don't get a check every week that Google outperforms Yahoo or MSN.

[edited by: walkman at 9:08 pm (utc) on Feb. 18, 2005]

grail

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 9:07 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyone know why

site:google.de -google

returns

www.powerforen.de%01%00@www.google.de/

www.spotlight.de%00@www.google.de/

or

site:blogspot.com -blogspot

returns what it does?

lego_maniac



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 9:45 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

For instance, I have a couple of pages dealing with a specific topic...And when I do a search for them, by specific, unique page title, they either are so low in the SERPs I give up trying to find them, or they are at #50-something, or worse.

Above these pages in the SERPs, however, are pages that mention my pages, or my site, but don't go any further. So how is that relevant? You're going to bury a page with almost everything one could want to know about a topic, and place multiple pages above it that mention the page?

It's almost like they're teasing people. They can see what they want, the words are highlighted in bold in the snippets, but where is the page? You have to click on another page to see if there's a link to the page you wanted in the first place? That's crazy.

People know they've seen the page before, in Google, but they can't find it now. So they go somewhere else to look for it, and guess what? It's #1 in every other search engine EXCEPT for Google. Now how is that relevant? And what does that say to long-time Google searchers?

Wow, when I read that, it hit the nail on the head EXACTLY. One of the sites I manage is a non-profit. The search terms are not very competitive. They are the only non-profits that cater to X audience, and have tons of authoritative content. As such, on MSN, Yahoo, and Jeeves, the non-profit is listed #1 in the results. Google HAD the site listed for a short while at #1 (From Dec 2004 until Feb update), now they are #439. The first half dozen results on Google now show sites with pages whose content says "For more information, visit example.non-profit.org". Sandbox, penalties, "Latent Sematic Analysis", whatever you want to call it. Something happened.

The #1 spot now goes to a page that says "Please visit #439 if you're looking for more information"? IMO that's exactly bass ackwards.

grail

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 10:06 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Anyone know why
site:google.de -google "

its ok I have found it is related to spoofing addresses. Google thinks this page exists but hasn't spidered yet or whatever, what was getting me was the address when you put mouse over the link.

steveb

WebmasterWorld Senior Member steveb us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 10:10 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

"If it was a problem, would they have released it?"

Which has nothing at all to do with "google says there's no problem". That is fiction you made up.

Like the rest of us, they release anything they do because they think it will work. Sometimes stuff doesn't go as planned, here being an example. They have nowhere said there's "no problem" and saying fiction like that doesn't help anything.

idoc

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 10:53 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

It looks to me that search has taken a back seat to media and ppc delivery. G is a public company now and can do whatever it wants as far as i'm concerned... I am not a stockholder. It might do them well however to think of AV once in a while and remember when they used to be on top. Does AV have a ppc program... I don't know and really who would care if they did... which is I guess my point.

Newman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 11:04 pm on Feb 18, 2005 (gmt 0)

Look this, it's funny!

[prnewswire.com...]

Hey mr. Breikss, you are a genius or we are stupid!

np2003

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 2:00 am on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

How can you "tell" you are getting the new Allegra search results? Anyone?

Localizer

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 12:09 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I'm noticing something very funny at the moment.
when i do site:mydomain.com -blablabla it always gives me the big index.

When i change "-blablabla" with 1 letter, I will get the small index form G.....

Weird....

RichTC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 1:21 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

On Friday night our UK widget site which is a MAJOR widget related content site dropped out the Google index again.

No problem because they didnt list it anywhere within range anyway. Its about the most relevent widget site for certain areas you will find in the uk and google dont list it!. They have cashed about 20,000 pages but dont index any of them!

Its one of 71 UK widget sites that Google list in their own directory under UK Widgets, hows that for a laugh!. You would think that if its in Google directory it would feature somewhere.

Just shows what trash the google index is currently. On MSN the site features rank 1 for most widget related Keywords and rank 7 ish depending on term in Yahoo. Meanwhile best result in Google is position 385 for "blue widgets"

Anyway, one things for certain, we are not feeding adwords anymore until they list us. We had spent over £30,000 with Google, we are now investing that with Overture to fill the small gaps on Yahoo and MSN.

If google dont rate us to even list us in their index why should we rate them?

Good luck all anyway, the google index can only get better from here, it cant get much worse thats for certain!

[edited by: ciml at 3:55 pm (utc) on Feb. 19, 2005]
[edit reason] Widgetised [/edit]

twebdonny



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 3:56 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

What we have been forced to do was suspend our Adwords
account due to a lack of sufficient incoming funds because
of this update and our dramatic loss of position. We informed those who may care at G about this.

Money Talks.

I only wish Googleguy had responded, but that no longer seems likely either.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 4:03 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Anyway, one things for certain, we are not feeding adwords anymore until they list us. We had spent over £30,000 with Google, we are now investing that with Overture to fill the small gaps on Yahoo and MSN.

Sounds like a curious logic. As someone else here said, it's like refusing to advertise in a magazine because they won't run your press release or an article on your company.

Either the Google audience is worth reaching or it isn't. If it is, then refusing to advertise on Google is likely to hurt you more than it will hurt Google.

max_mm

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 4:19 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

europeforvisitors,

twebdonny is saying:
>>What we have been forced to do was suspend our Adwords
>>account due to a lack of sufficient incoming funds.

And what he/she probably mean (like millions of other webmasters who are affected by the Allegra sour joke) is :
We lost the income from free traffic, this is forcing us to reduce our adwords spending due to less overhaul income/budget.

So i just thought Iíd repeat that IN CASE YOU HAVENíT NOTICED, you wise intelligent old man you.

AndyA

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 4:24 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

I was about to start utilizing AdWords, but due to the fact that my site doesn't rank for its search terms any longer, I don't trust Google to display the ads where they should be displayed. Plus, with reduced traffic/income from normal listings, I've decided now is not the time to incur additional expenses.

At this point, I'm much more likely to advertise elsewhere until Google straightens up.

I lose, Google loses.

ciml

WebmasterWorld Senior Member ciml us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 5:09 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

> I lose, Google loses.

And yet if your ad isn't there there is usually another? Just as if our site isn't at the top of the SERPs then in the majority of cases there's another to take its place?

I don't want to see mean AndyA, but I think it's safe to say that the rest of the world doesn't care about our rankings as much as we do. There is almost always someone else to fill the gap.

That written, there are are sites (commercial and non commercial) that do not rank for their name or brand. This can cause Google to give a lower user satisfaction for those searches.

Abigail

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 5:23 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Just something I have noticed happening - since Sept 23 I have lost 99% of my google traffic and just recently the last 1%, but over the last few days I am seeing a smattering of hits coming from the google image searches, that seems to be increasing like a snowball in size - this doesn't make any sense to me, if I have been blackballed or banned or penalized why this new traffic?

My site is 5 years old, tons of back links, lots of pages and good PR accross the board.

lammert

WebmasterWorld Senior Member lammert us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 6:46 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

What we have been forced to do was suspend our Adwords account due to a lack of sufficient incoming funds because of this update and our dramatic loss of position.

If I understand it well, you now suspend your Adwords account because Adwords alone is not profitable for your website. IMHO your Adwords campaign wasn't profitable in the previous situation also: Allegra only changed the amount of free traffic.

As far as I see it, Allegra has helped you because now you realize that Adwords alone is no money maker for your type of site. You previously didn't realize this because the negative Adwords income was compensated by the free traffic income. You could have made more money in the past if you hadn't used Adwords.

So you could see Allegra as a lesson that you have to look carefully at the real costs and sources of income.

fclark

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 7:06 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

What we have been forced to do was suspend our Adwords account due to a lack of sufficient incoming funds

Lammert hit it on the head. The incremental benefit of Adwords appears to have been negative for you.

However, it could also just be a cash flow situation: it might have been profitable, but you cannot cover this month's big bill. Either way G's loss.

xrtza

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 7:16 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

With so much click-fraud going on these days, trust is very important. We have also shifted our PPC to a more reliable trustworthy provider (in our opinion). We fear a revolt by users and flooding of click fraud. There are many good articles out there about fraud techniques and most fraud attacks are aimed at Google. They can get your keywords banned by deflating click-thru rates. Not a bug but an adwords feature exploit. This whole situation does nothing but raise doubts about google as a whole. We are also seriously considering adding disallow googlebot. At this point all of our data says googlebot is using way too much bandwidth and server resources compared to traffic from Google. By our anylisis it falls into the spambot category. They must have more resources than brains. Why would they spider sites for days on end and make them virtually invisible. Seems like a huge waste of their resources as well as ours.

foxtunes

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 8:31 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

"....since Sept 23 I have lost 99% of my google traffic and just recently the last 1%...."

Abigail, Sep 23rd was a significant date for one of my sites also. I lost half my google traffic then...In december it came roaring back better than before....Then Allegra blew into town so this site is down 80 percent.

I'm hopeful that whatever filter or knob has been tweaked, will be re-tweaked again, and that slammed sites will make a comeback, just as this particular site of mine did in december....I'm still seeing referrals for keywords where I dominated before.

There could even be an x factor in this update, a random element to throw us all off.....because if my site semi-sucked on sep 23rd why was it great in december, and why now does it suck again in february?

Anyone noticed that rarely updated sites are doing badly in this update....My blog has all google guns blazing right now, traffic is flooding in....But my beloved, white hat, pure html, yahoo grandfathered site is (sob) nowhere.

Perhaps there is a new freshness boost for constantly updated content.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 9:07 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

europeforvisitors,
twebdonny is saying:
>>What we have been forced to do was suspend our Adwords
>>account due to a lack of sufficient incoming funds

Actually, I was responding to the passage that I quoted from RichTC's post higher up in the thread. I'm not questioning twebdonny's action, which seems perfectly reasonable under the circumstances.

europeforvisitors



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 9:14 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

We are also seriously considering adding disallow googlebot. At this point all of our data says googlebot is using way too much bandwidth and server resources compared to traffic from Google. By our anylisis it falls into the spambot category.

So you're saying that you want to guarantee that you'll never get traffic from Google? Is your bandwidth and server overhead really so expensive that you're willing to choke off any possibility of future traffic from the #1 search engine?

Jakpot

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 9:21 pm on Feb 19, 2005 (gmt 0)

Google has not said they have no problem.
On the other hand they have not said they do have a problem.
Only thing Google says is that their earnings are
mucho better than expected. Good for them.
Now back to our problems please Google

RichTC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 12:20 am on Feb 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

europeforvisitors

Just think about the effect of not being indexed in relation to adwords.

IF you buy 1000 clicks PPC and you also have 1000 clicks FREE via the SERPS in effect you are buying from google at half price. The more SERPS clicks you get the more discount you have.

IF google dont list you, every click you buy PPC is at top whack full price.

Thats the way i see it. Google do not list our site so why should we continue to support them and value the Google business if they dont value our business.

Meanwhile MSN and Yahoo do index our site and index it well so by investing our £30,000 with Overture we get superb return on our investment.

Hope that explains our position to you.

RichTC

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 12:58 am on Feb 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

Perhaps some one at webmasterworld is listening after all!

Our site has just come into the index, in position 90 ish, but its a start, was nowhere to be seen on Friday.

We are position 1 in MSN and 8 in Yahoo for a volume of keywords should we ever get any google web trafic we will have to re-think about using adwords again and compare the ROI against MSN and Yahoo.

Still dont know what google are doing regarding this update but either the data centres are not all the same still or they have changed again - must be the longest update in history!

xrtza

5+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 1:18 am on Feb 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

There are no guarantees for free traffic ever. By disallowing googlebot (which we haven't done yet) we will have a lot less distractions so we can focus on content without fear. yes we fear rolling out anything because of Google. Our creativity should not be regulated by any engine. We have a standard method of determining which bots to ban. Currently googlebot fits the banned bot profile. We have been giving them a pass to this point because they are the biggest. But we keep asking why should they be treated any different that other resource hogging bots that do not deliver results. Sure we would like traffic from google and we could remove the disallow as qickly as it can be added. They will visit daily regardless just fetching robots.txt We have plenty of inbound links so I feel confident we could get re-indexed whenever wanted. Who knows being dropped and re-indexed might be the cure or the kiss of death. We can't run our business dependent on any one traffic source. google might be the biggest but they are not the only game in town.

BigUns



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 1:46 am on Feb 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

About the 'Allegra Update':

General Observation #1: On most searches, I find the SERPS excellent, both in relevance, and in the apparent success of Google in decreasing the amount of spam/scrapers/faux directories/etc.

General Observation #2: Starting on Feb 9, and continuing almost constantly since, there are a large number of folks claiming 'update is over' and an even larger number who apparently accept that as FACT, and since some of those people don't rank well, they are unduly pessimistic too soon. I see no reason to believe this update is over and plenty of evidence that the update is not yet over. Let me share a little:

Using a 3 word query on 2 Data Centers, one of which serves results to the public:

#results 2.8 million
#allinanchor 51
#allintitle 6
#allinurl 25

#results 2.7 million
#allinanchor 54
#allintitle 18
#allinurl (about) 1500 - 90 indexed; the other 1400 seem to be url only, perhaps regarded as spam by google.

The #1, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 9 results on one DC do not even appear in the top 10 on the other DC. That is a significant difference.

To repeat something I've posted before, the DC above which serves results to the public still has about 250,000 pages missing on another 3 word query which pre-allegra had and on the other DC has about 500,000 results; whereas pre-allegra the first 3 word query is roughly 800,000 more on both DCs.

It is premature to sell your Google stock, to exclude the Googlebot via robots.txt, or to engage in hyperbolic accusations directed at Google. It is premature to be so darn pessimistic. The Allegra update is not over yet. IMHO :)

"I've fallen (in rank) and can't get up!" - Overly pessimistic webmasterworld posters

walkman



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 2:29 am on Feb 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

"The Allegra update is not over yet. IMHO "

it is for me. I don't rank anywhere no matter keywords what I use (short of using a sentence). Before I was on a few DCs, now I'm not. Technically I'm still in the index since all the pages are indexed.
I have triggered someething. It could be the pages I deleted months ago via Google's remove service resulting in a dupe penalty. Maybe they're still valid on their end, just don't show up for the users.

WebFusion

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 3:42 am on Feb 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

IF you buy 1000 clicks PPC and you also have 1000 clicks FREE via the SERPS in effect you are buying from google at half price. The more SERPS clicks you get the more discount you have.

IF google dont list you, every click you buy PPC is at top whack full price.

Thats the way i see it. Google do not list our site so why should we continue to support them and value the Google business if they dont value our business.

Meanwhile MSN and Yahoo do index our site and index it well so by investing our £30,000 with Overture we get superb return on our investment.

Hope that explains our position to you.

I can't believe how some people approach a PPC campaign. A TRULY successful PPC campaign is able to stand on it's own. Any marketing professional who uses free traffic in ANY formula for computing the ROI of a PPC campaign is not doing their job. The effectiveness of your compaigns should be measured ONLY in the profit/loss the traffic from those PPC campaigns generated.

Essentially, what you are saying is one of two things:

1. Your PPC campaign(s) are actually run at a loss, and do not generate a profit on their own

OR

2. You have made the brilliant business decision of abandoning what profits your adwords campaigns were making because you are not receiving the free traffic you feel you are entitled to...

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 27999 posted 3:44 am on Feb 20, 2005 (gmt 0)

The Allegra update may not be over, but this thread seems to be about over...yes?

One new feature I am seeing is pages that were previously white in the toolbar are now gray. I'm especially talking about pages on established sites that are new. Previously such new pages were PR0 but white.

This 610 message thread spans 21 pages: < < 610 ( 1 ... 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 [20] 21 > >
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