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Update Allegra - Google Update 2-2-2005
illusionist




msg:768548
 1:34 pm on Feb 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

My site which came back on december 26 update, seems to have disappeared again on this data center [216.239.53.99...] . Its notwhere to be found even in allinanchor, allintitle etc? I see majot change on that data center, is this a new update?

 

Liane




msg:769148
 11:47 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

Watching data centers do their thing is like watching grass grow ... and it looks as though you guys are expecting one humdinger of a crop! ;)

skippy




msg:769149
 11:57 pm on Feb 7, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebFusion,
I think you might be missing the point about why someone might watch this very closely. I have learned a lot about google this last week. You get a chance during these updates to look a little under the hood of google.

But I understand what you are trying to convey and you are dead on.

foxtunes




msg:769150
 12:00 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

64.233.171.99
64.233.171.104
64.233.171.105
64.233.171.147
216.239.53.99
216.239.39.99
216.239.37.104
216.239.37.147
216.239.57.99
216.239.37.99
216.239.39.104
216.239.37.105

The data centers above have great looking serps on the keywords I monitor....The impossible dream?

Kangol




msg:769151
 12:01 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Im out of all the DCs. I guess that this ain't good. I had 4 wonderful days though.

brixton




msg:769152
 12:08 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

plus all those DC have the same number of results like the official .com and .co.uk

diddlydazz




msg:769153
 12:15 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Webfusion,

Agreed, I myself got a bit carried away with this one :)
(perhaps I am having flashbacks)

But in all fairness this is the only update I have seen (or can remember) where the SERPS looked so bad (on certain terms and urls).

But your point is one that I myself sometimes preach :)

dazz

Nawaralsaadi




msg:769154
 12:19 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

just had a response to my complaint about the site not showing for company name, I have been told it shows under: www.mysite.com, oh really!?

I guess i should just give up my browser and use google for web addresses.

glitterball




msg:769155
 12:24 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

To be honest the results for the keywords that I watch don't look very different.
Only thing that I noticed is that one of my sites is completely gone.

I know everyone keeps saying "google doesn't owe me a living" etc.
However, I think that if you own a trademark and that trademark is also your domain name and google decides to stop listing you for that trademark, then if Google is also selling Adwords to your competitors for that trademark then it is time to go to the Lawyers.

thaedge




msg:769156
 12:39 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

64.233.171.99
64.233.171.104
64.233.171.105
64.233.171.147
216.239.53.99
66.102.7.99
216.239.53.104
66.102.7.104
66.102.7.105
66.102.7.147

Odd - 2 low key KW's ive owned for some 4+ years, and Im suddenly #3(was way lower over the weekend) and off the charts for the other one on G, but still #1 and #3 in every DC above.

May be hope for me yet :) - either way back to work I go

spurs




msg:769157
 12:40 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Hi

Could someone help answer a question regarding the google update..

I run a small ecommerce site and before the update had some decent rankings, but has now dropped way down I can't even find it.

I noticed when checking a keyword phrase that a particular site (shopping directory) is ranked but with my site details and when clicked redirects to my site! I checked other keywords and the same thing. So I checked my current affiliates and there is was, it's a new affiliate since 24th Jan.

As I don't know much about SE, would google think my site is a duplicate and penalise it?

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks Neil

walkman




msg:769158
 1:11 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

"As I don't know much about SE, would google think my site is a duplicate and penalise it?"
hang tight Neil, 612 messages and no one knows.

This is weird: I don't even show up for my allinurl:domain! If I add a &filter=0 I show up for that, but &filter=0 does nothing for the SERPS. There's no duplicate copy of my site as far as Google, Yahoo or Copyscape can tell. Great job Google! At least if I had a few dupes, one site would rank.

Even the few DCs I was holding up have been replaced by nightmarish results. I will give it two weeks and then buy a nice black hat. Screw this

[edited by: walkman at 1:26 am (utc) on Feb. 8, 2005]

esllou




msg:769159
 1:11 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have lost 80% of G traffic these last 5 days. If I get back, I will bear in mind the lesson learnt this week.

I am never again going to put myself at the whim of a search engine.

never.....

the fightback starts here and it starts now.

(if I have two kids in the future, the first will called Florida after the update that made me rich...the second will be Allegra after the update that made me smart!)

Swanson




msg:769160
 1:15 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I have been following this thread with interest, everyone is seeing a wide variety of results from this update - myself included.

I don't know if this helps, but I have to mention what has happened to my sites.

I know there is a lot of talk about Google introducing some sort of LSI or other secondary algorithm to the results but I don't think that is what it is.

Of the sites that I monitor, it seems that quite a lot of inbound links from sub-pages have been downgraded. By that I mean either removed for duplicate content (a much higher reconition filter) or for other reasons.

This seems to have caused a knock-on downgrading of sites - I think many sites have been penalised incorrectly and you are seeing the classic link only listing or supplemental in the results.

I say this because I am lucky enough to follow updwards of 1000+ sites (not mine) and the big industries are hit harder.

It looks as though Google are using a basic filter to try to stop link problems but aren't really aware of the implications when you apply a rule to the full index.

I would be the first to say that this is the most ineffective filter that has ever been applied. I say that because many of the sites I follow have increased in traffic - and I find that at odds with the fact the sites are basically not relevant compared to the sited that have been hit. By the way I have been hit by every update posted over the past 6 months.

I have no problems in discussing the results - but now that MSN is on the scene, I don't want to!

MSN and Yahoo are much easier to optimise for - and as an SEO I would rather see on-page penalties than link penalties that are crazy for the commercial world. As we honestly know it is so easy to buy links than it is to create good content. Lets be totally honest thats not my problem, but people who aren't trying to SEO and get banned because of a redirect etc.... thats not fair - I do think I would rather see the small guys take on the big ones (with quality content and links).

And thats why webmasters like ourselves need an alternative until normal service is resumed.

Anyway, sticky me for some examples and tips - I really don't have that much of a problem as although I consider myself a "black hat SEO" (life is too short to not earn a living) I would rather you "white hat SEOs" do your stuff and make it better for the mass market.

Ta! (An SEO Black hat with a heart!)

dfre




msg:769161
 1:24 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Does anyone think maybe they are rolling back the changes of the past week? I am seeing a lot of SERPS that look very similar to pre-update SERPS showing up on several dc's.

brixton




msg:769162
 1:24 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

2 hours ago the DC's with the old results was 12, 1 hour ago 16 and now 17.Does anybody believes that the data spreads to all?

Swanson




msg:769163
 1:36 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I don't believe they really ever roll back the serps. As a developer for (in my past glory days) algorithm technology companies. What you are seeing is a fast change in filters - which is normally due to a lack of customer satisfaction or early release of a new filter.

The serps are never rolled back totally just a reduction in previous filters - that is why it seems that things change during an update. Googleguy is listening - make no misktake they are listening, but trying to piece together what is going on in the wider sense rather than a controlled local update. What you are seeing is links being valued back to their existing weight on and off.

It seems over the past few days that the power of certain links are being introduced and then de-introduced.

Whatever, I think this type of update will be more common - would you not do the same thing?

Ta!

theBear




msg:769164
 1:49 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

"I don't believe they really ever roll back the serps. As a developer for (in my past glory days) algorithm technology companies. What you are seeing is a fast change in filters - which is normally due to a lack of customer satisfaction or early release of a new filter".

This begs the what customer question.

So what or which customer?

I see only one customer the adbuyers but only one party that really counts Google's shareholders.

nuthin




msg:769165
 1:49 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

looks like google is finally rewarding sites that have put in the hard yards over the past 6-9 months and obtained high quality incoming links to their website.

hopefully the serp's stick this time.

theBear




msg:769166
 2:01 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Maybe nuthin ... but I'm not so sure about what Google thought an organic site would really look like.

People who link to a site rarely (like probably never) consult Google's book of what they want.

Several thousand inbound high PR offsite links are a strange lot when acquired over many years.

Now, Google wanted organic sites the last I knew. So much for organic huh, now let's talk LSI .... how does one present search results in rank order from multiple knowledge domains?

Gets interesting doesn't it?

WebFusion




msg:769167
 2:02 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I think that if you own a trademark and that trademark is also your domain name and google decides to stop listing you for that trademark, then if Google is also selling Adwords to your competitors for that trademark then it is time to go to the Lawyers.

Wow...if your pockets are deep enough to take on google's army of lawyers, you really don't need the free traffic, do you?

looks like google is finally rewarding sites that have put in the hard yards over the past 6-9 months and obtained high quality incoming links to their website.
hopefully the serp's stick this time.

That's honestly what it looks like to me as well. The moron who bought himself to the top of the serps in my industry (via paid links from high PR/unrelated sites) has been effectively zapped. Too bad, so sad.

The half dozen or so scraper sites I've been reporting for the past 4 months or so got zapped as well. So long, lazy morons.

Frankly, even without the fact that our site was finally released from the sandbox (or whatever), these serps are pretty clean. Only 2 spammers in the 1st 30 results in my industry.

I should also note that my oldest (hobby) site in a highly competitive category (45 mil+ results) hasn't budged.

max_mm




msg:769168
 2:12 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

WebFusion said:

My question is...how on earth can you stand to live like that? Having your livelhood resting in the hands of an entity over which you have no control is (IMHO) madness.

I think you people are looking at this the wrong way. As opposed to checking various datacenters every few minutes, why not use that time more wsely to pursue other sources of traffic IN CASE your google traffic does not come back anytime soon. Where will you be a week from now if you've wasted all this time checking and rechecking to see if your site came back? No better off than you are now!

It's like asking a stranger to hold your rope while you rappel off a cliff!

WebFusion, how do you determine most of us did not diversify or are not putting enough time to other things or more attention to other SE like yahoo or MSN.

Well guess what…I for one did. I have a network of web sites and they are all listed (and rank well) on MSN as well as Yahoo. I gave up Google optimisation a long while ago due to them freak spikes in traffic from this engine. It is just not reliable as it used to be SERPs wise and one can not relay his/hers business model upon such seismic events/updates.

My problem and I’m sure the problem of many other webmasters is the fact that there are still far too many average joe’s out there that start their web searches with google. Why do they start their searches with google? because of all the media hype and because most of us webmasters have been recommending google to our users and we are partly to blame for google’s success and power over our site traffic & businesses.

I wont count the times I recommended friends and family to search google when they are looking for something online. Most were just using whatever default engine set up in their browsers and had no idea about google. I cannot count the times I helped friends family and customers change the default engines installed or help them install the google tool bar.

So no WebFusion, this is not a matter of “I’m not ranking well on google lets ban googlebot”.
It is a matter of “we are giving this monopoly too much power, power they no longer deserve” and we should stop recommending them as the default engine to our users.

Rest assured that my business is fully diversified and my sites rank very well over Y and MSN. But I’m only getting 50% of traffic I used to get. Google accounted for the other 50%. Why there is not as much traffic coming from the other two is simply because twice as much users (WW) are using google as their default SE.

I went even further today and started offering direct links to Y toolbar over my entire network.

My sites are not entirely reliant on SE traffic and I still get a large amount of viewers coming via links etc. It is my motto now to start recommending the other SEs to my viewers and will continue doing this when the recent G update settles down and I get my G traffic back (and i've been more then 8 years in this business to know that the traffic will recover, the question is when?). I’ll be busy recommending the other engines to that traffic as well, when it is back.

You talk about true diversifications, this is one of the first steps we webmasters should take to ensure the web is a fair play ground for everyone, short and long term. Webmasters should start by stop recommending google on their sites. It only comes back to haunt us later on down the track.

Seams like where ever site you visit nowadays has the google box or google adsense.......that’s what I’m talking about. They are simply rounding up the entire web and this must stop.

[edited by: max_mm at 2:41 am (utc) on Feb. 8, 2005]

Dugger




msg:769169
 2:26 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Swanson, I agree with you 100%. The LSI talk is wishful thinking - Google is just turning the "links knob" up and down. Now sites with lots of links from subpages have been knocked down a few notches. Next time they will probably be back.

It keeps us all guessing and is great for the Adwords business.

steveb




msg:769170
 2:27 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

If your site is missing from the serps, search for a long string of text from the page.

Chances are good that a hijacking page has taken the place of your correct listing.

irvingguy




msg:769171
 2:27 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

To,

Larry & Sergey,

Hope this reaches you. I am a well-wisher of Google & was a fan....uptil now.

my website is online since 1999. for last 5 years, we have been on first page first site for our primary keywords.

But, now with this recent algo change of urs, we are nowhere.

This is simply NOT LOGICAL! I categorically state that, we have not spammed or used any technique which is called as black-hat.

In your race in rolling out new products, you have forgotten what your core competancy & responsibility is.

If this is the way you are gonna give importance to the quality of your algo, then I forsee Google going the Alta Vista way. I know many people have already said this before, but I just HAD to say this.

regards,

Paul.

HawaiianArt




msg:769172
 2:32 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

My site has gone from #10 to vanished. The top rankings are buried in SPAM from chat boards and guestbooks from two sites that have been reported for spamming Google. My site has no outgoing links and all traffic in is from quality pages. Please, tell me it will get better or if it's not going to, what are your recomendations?

zafile




msg:769173
 2:42 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

The short term approach to remedy the dissapearance of sites in SERPs is to start an AdWords campaign.

The long term approach is to start from scratch and follow the steps indicated at [webmasterworld.com...]

There's no way Google is going back to SERPS prior to February 1, 2005. Just remember Google now has a formidable competitor: MSN.

Google isn't going to put itself out of business just because a group of "pathetic" Webmasters didn't follow the steps indicated above.

div01




msg:769174
 2:47 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

I won't speak for everyone else, but some of us did follow Brett's advice. We probably have to now start looking at "alternative" strategies.

metrostang




msg:769175
 2:50 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

Is this update over? For the past two hours all data centers have shown identical results for the searches I follow. This is the first time that has been true for several days.

max_mm




msg:769176
 2:51 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)


I won't speak for everyone else, but some of us did follow Brett's advice. We probably have to now start looking at "alternative" strategies.

Ditto that!

zafile




msg:769177
 3:01 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

"... some of us did follow Brett's advice."

Probably you missed some important steps. Or perhaps, you mixed the steps with "alternative" strategies and Google caught you.

I can still see in Allegra's SERPs some other fellows that mixed "alternative" strategies with Brett's advice.

They might get caught in the following update.

walkman




msg:769178
 3:02 am on Feb 8, 2005 (gmt 0)

"Google isn't going to put itself out of business just because a group of "pathetic" Webmasters didn't follow the steps indicated above."

for many that was the biggest mistake. Following rules=bankruptcy with Google these days. The days of being honest and build and they will come are gone. Too many variables in G today. I'm #240 searching for mydomain.com for a money site of mine. That means that 239 directories, scrapper sites or sites that link me are ahead. How is that relevant? At least a hundred sites link me with "mydomain-com".

[edited by: walkman at 3:04 am (utc) on Feb. 8, 2005]

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