| 8:05 pm on Jan 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
It was a long time ago, indeed in Internet years a very long time ago that Google's results were ordered by PageRank. (for normal searches)
| 8:25 pm on Jan 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|what really makes sites to achieve higher positions? |
Hundreds of factors.
It all comes back to four basic things, good content, good internal navigation, more links and associated factors, good page layout.
| 8:53 pm on Jan 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
It could also be as simple as the PR0 site optimized his page well, and did everything just right, and that the PR4 site didn't.
I have a PR7, couple of PR6's, a PR5 and all I know is if you want to move up in position in google, a PR5 or better can usually muscle it's way up without too much trouble into the top 20 at least. However, there are some keywords you might as well forget about as some sites seem to be locked in as more authorative on the topic or something as you can't get past those sites no matter what their PR. I'll settle for top 10 but #1 would sure be nice.
| 9:55 pm on Jan 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Remember that PR 0 on the G toolbar just means PR 0 at the last update. That site's current PR (consider PR everflux etc) could well be a 6 or 7.
| 11:03 pm on Jan 28, 2005 (gmt 0)|
spot on robster
| 12:24 pm on Jan 29, 2005 (gmt 0)|
> good content, good internal navigation, more links and associated factors, good page layout
That's right BigDave, and if we're talking secondary (and even tertiary) factors then PPC spend, TV/radio/print advertising, public relations, etc. can all help. Anything that builds the brand online and offline makes it easier to get links in the long term.
In terms of Google weighting I would say that when looking at highly competitive phrases, the single biggest element of rankings is links from other Web sites. One link from a high PR page doesn't have the same affect that it did a few years ago; nowadays many votes count more than a few good votes.
At the bottom-feeding end (many low competition pages and phrases), page title, body text and even PageRank are important. This is because the pages vying for those phrases won't tend to have links from other sites.
There's a growing view that a well linked home page makes it easier for other URLs on the domain to rank well - independently of PageRank.
| 12:40 pm on Jan 29, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|There's a growing view that a well linked home page makes it easier for other URLs on the domain to rank well - independently of PageRank |
Was about to write the very same statement! If I see a low PR page (<3) ranked high for a relevant, money phrase, then in most cases that page is of a good PR (>4)/ high Alexa traffic site.
| 12:41 pm on Jan 29, 2005 (gmt 0)|
If only it did come down to:-
"four basic things, good content, good internal navigation, more links and associated factors, good page layout"
This probably was the case a couple of years ago. Since March 2004 the algo must take other factors into account such as, age of site, PPC, snail pace indexing to assist adwords income and other factors not known to us.
Thats just the way it is, as i see it and having a perfect site very rich in all of those factors will not now get you into the index.
| 8:30 pm on Jan 29, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|This probably was the case a couple of years ago. Since March 2004 the algo must take other factors into account such as, age of site, PPC, snail pace indexing to assist adwords income and other factors not known to us. |
And what do most of these have to do with google ranking or your being able to influence the ranking?
As for age of site, that is pretty much a non factor. I see just as many complaints about google preferring new sits as I see about them preferring old.
"Snails pace of indexing"? Certainly not on any of my sites. established sites have new pages indexed within a week, and new sites are completely crawled within two months. Usually much quicker than that in both cases. I suspect that the speed of indexing is related to taking care of those four factors that I mentioned.
"other factors not known to us". Did you happen to read the first line of my previous post? The four items were what to concentrate on that will help you cover the majority of those hundreds of factors, including PR.
Sure there will be things not covered by it. So what? If you haven't covered those things well, then you best not be blaming Google for your poor showing, sandbox or not.
| 2:10 pm on Feb 1, 2005 (gmt 0)|
How do I find out what PR my site is?
| 3:34 pm on Feb 1, 2005 (gmt 0)|
> How do I find out what PR my site is?
download the google-toolbar.
There are also a number of services which may show you the value without that download but webmasterworld doesn't like those urls to be posted here so just google for 'pagerank without toolbar' or similar queries.
As to OP let me also add a few unqualified remarks:
- I think title tag is currently quite important.
- outbound links seem to be, but this is yet speculation
- relevance of inbound links not only in terms of anchor text but maybe by a much deeper lexical investigation of the linking site. Also speculation.
- I also have the feeling that single-search-term-queries trigger special ranking-algos which have to do with adwords campaigns or that hilltop/authority/cluster thing. What i mean is: In my little niche I have no problem to bring a page to #1 for a two- or three-word search query like 'white wooden widget' by simply making the title exactly match those words (plus a minimum of relevant text on that page), whereas I constantly reside in the Nirwana for the broader single-word-keywords. But maybe - due to already more sophisticated semantic evaluation - this is different for the english speaking hemisphere. This is the most speculative speculation.
- Finally it is not clear yet in how far that no-rel-tag-thing has already influenced PR-calculation during that very last and very deep crawl which was reported. Maybe a PR update has already been done and some of the PR3-7 pages OP mentions might be quite surprised by the next TPR-update in two weeks or so.
| 4:10 pm on Feb 1, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Thanks! I'm very much a newbie, so learning all the time and this stuff is a real help.
It seems as though it is far from an exact science and changing all the time. So thank God for this site and it's users!
| 4:14 pm on Feb 1, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I just found out that my page rank is 0/10. Better get cracking!
| 5:26 pm on Feb 1, 2005 (gmt 0)|
You dont have to download the Google toolbar to get page rank.
Just go to Google and search "Page Rank" and you will find a couple of web sites that report site page rank for people without a toolbar. Just make sure you put in the full domain name, including the "www." or you may see a lower page rank than you actually have.
| 9:09 am on Feb 2, 2005 (gmt 0)|
The Google toolbar does not update in realtime, so you have to wait until the next update to see the real PR of the site.
| 9:48 am on Feb 2, 2005 (gmt 0)|
|Just go to Google and search "Page Rank" and you will find a couple of web sites that report site page rank for people without a toolbar. |
And before you use them and many other ranking/SEO related tools, decide who you want collecting and analyzing your data. :-) (alternately you also lose privacy rights by using the pagerank and other advance features of the google toolbar).
| 2:21 pm on Feb 2, 2005 (gmt 0)|
Big Dave said "I see just as many complaints about google preferring new sits as I see about them preferring old."
I disagree. Where I'm looking, old sites seem to do much better in the serps. I see lots of complaints from people with new sites (see the sandbox threads) and don't see any from people with old sites.
| 11:56 pm on Feb 2, 2005 (gmt 0)|
I see 50/50 - some customers of mine (those that dont listen) seem to struggle to get listed at all, and some new sites I put up and manage shoot to the top and stay there right away. I wonder if the difference is my new sites get linked from my PR 7 site to alert people to visit, think that makes a difference?
I'm going to make an experiment and directly link one of my struggling customers and see if they suddenly surace.
| 12:03 am on Feb 3, 2005 (gmt 0)|
>> And before you use them and many other ranking/SEO related tools, decide who you want collecting and analyzing your data
OK, how much could they collect?
The web site asks one simple question:
DOMAIN NAME: www.mydomain.com
Hit submit and it spits out:
Not sure what they can do with that, they could download DMOZ and run my category thru their program to figure out I'm 6/10 without me even asking them.
If you have any privacy concern insights on this, which seems pretty non-instrusive, I'm all ears.