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ffa links abuse
i've spent 3800.00 on google adwords

 1:50 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

so my competitors know exactly who i am - they come to my site - use my help@domain_name.com and info@domain_name.com

submit my site to the ffa forms - it looks as if I tried to enter my own site to link farms - I've got the ip addresses of the clown who submitted it.

what to do? Here I am working hard on making sure everything is real nice and neat and everything is hooked up for googlebot - and all of the sudden i start getting a ton of junk mail - I'm out 3,800.00 bucks and sites that are so not even close to as good as mine enjoy top 10 rankings.

What's with no links using googles link:www.mydomain.com

What's the reasoning for this? I have many links out there - I've seen them many times, yet google shows I have no incoming links from other sites.

thanks for listening to me whine and I appreciate any and all replies.

[edited by: Marcia at 3:53 am (utc) on Mar. 6, 2003]



 1:53 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)


1) AdWords listings, regardless how much you spend, have no bearing on your Google listing or PR. You can theoretically spend a million on AdWords and never be in the search index.

2) Incoming links are only shown in link:http://www.mydomain.com if the incoming link has a PR of 5 or above. (..or was it 4?)

No idea what to do about the linkfarm. A seasoned veteran will need to answer that part of the question. :)


 1:55 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

I suspect there is more to the story than just somebody signing you up to suspect link sites.
Are you sure you are not doing something "wrong".

Plus how long has your site been active?


 2:04 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

1. yes i am well aware that adwords have nothing to do with placement - just thought that I would mention it seems how it hurts - if in fact somehow i would get banned - I doubt I will and I would be able to prove if need be that I did not submit it to any ffa

2. I have never took part in any unethical doings regarding my site or anyone elses.

I am real new to search engine rankings and the craziness that goes with this - it's real neat to see others so in to this - i am hooked and look forward to any pointers any of you can send my way.

My content will be second to none - it's just a real bitch doing everything yourself and then to have someone out to get me banned really pisses me off.

[edited by: jeffb711 at 2:11 am (utc) on Mar. 6, 2003]


 2:10 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Do you have any incoming links to your site?
Is your site brand new?


 2:14 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

yeah i have a lot - since 2000 - but I see now - I guess all the links come from page that have a low page rank.

so hundreds of pages with low page rank count for nothing?

seems odd.


 2:16 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thats right.

Plus, if you link to a link farm and the link farm links back to you..... suicide.

Could this have happened?


 2:16 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)


Don't worry about it... As long as you don't link out to bad neighborhoods, and have no tricky stuff on your site, you should be OK. Google has stated that you won't get banned for anything that is beyond your control on your site.

In the meantime, they are wasting their time submitting while you develop content.

Check out Google's webmaster information pages - worth a read.



 2:19 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

How do you know you are banned or penalized?

How old is your site?

What is your pagerank?

What was your pagerank before this happened?

When did you get your links? What is their pagerank?

Did your competitors figure out how to post the link back to the link farm *from your site* that is required to get you the penalty?


 2:49 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

<<so hundreds of pages with low page rank count for nothing? >>

Actually, they DO count, and will have a modest but positive effect on your rankings. They don't get reported in your backlinks, though.


 3:42 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Would linking to a site which links to an ffa site get you in trouble?



 3:59 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hello Jeff,

IF you have an FFA links page on your own site, simply replace your META ROBOTS tag - or change it to read as such: <meta name="robots" content="noindex,nofollow">

Google defines a "link farm" in a roundabout way: Any page that contains MORE than 100 outbound links to other sites. You can read more about this by going to their site and clicking on their "Webmasters" button (or link). Be sure to READ what they consider to be "bad".

As to your site not showing any links IN - don't fret about that - I have a site with ZERO links coming in, and it has a #2 (and #3) ranking in Google Search for the targeted search term. Of course, the term IS in the Domain name.

Nevertheless, Google shows ZERO links to that site, yet it enjoys a high ranking.

Methinks too many Webmasters OBSESS about links IN, and Page Rank - and in the process load their pages with Pop-Ups, Email address captures, malicious code from traffic exchange sites and BAD HTML code.

In short, clean up your site - beginning with your main (index) page - and remove anything that might be harmful or annoying to your site visitors.

Googlebot WILL notice and reward you for it.

Best of Luck!


 4:08 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

just a question: what about directories that have lots of links but are specialized resources for a particular industry, not link farms. Any danger?


 4:32 am on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hello KittyKat,

Those Directories with "lots of links" are most likely limiting the sizes of each page, for example:

When each page reaches its limit - either by size or number, the smart thing to do is to create an additional page (cars3.htm) Remember /directory/cars1.htm will LINK to /cars2.htm - which will THEN LINK to cars3.htm

ALSO BEWARE of linking back to ANY site (link exchange) if the SOURCE CODE can not be viewed - (may be a cloaked page) OR if the source code reveals a "noindex,nofollow" command in the META ROBOTS tag.

Caught one "slick" Webmaster pulling that trick - the Law has a term for it - "Guilt by Association". Do you want to be guilty of associating with a Website that doesn't "play by the rules"?

Best of Luck!



 11:29 pm on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi Bobmcd

Google defines a "link farm" in a roundabout way: Any page that contains MORE than 100 outbound links to other sites.

While it's true the Google makes the recommendation to keep the number of links on a page under 100, I'm not sure I'd agree that it's because they define that as a link farm.

My guess is that the reason for the <100 recommendation is because when you get near or past that number of links Googlebot's less likely to follow them all.

In fact, they make the "keep the number of links under 100" and the "don't participate in link farms" recommendations separately on the same page, implying that they are two different potential problems.


 11:34 pm on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Agreed, that is not what Google defines a link farm to be. Even Google has > 100 links on some pages.


 11:51 pm on Mar 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just to add: This is really not the case, Google does not consider sites with pages carrying more than 100 links as FFA, or linkfarms.
There will be most likely a cutoff in PR passed from such a site. But this does under normal circumstances not lead to a penalty.


 1:05 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmm, I have 241 links on my main page, hehe, never had trouble getting google to follow a link. Is that really bad?


 1:12 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I just checked i have 270 links front page the PR6 on front page divided as PR2 on all others.


 3:38 am on Mar 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hello JayC and All,

Re: LinkFarm

Isn't a Farm supposed to be a place where crops grow?

Wouldn't a Link Farm be a place where Links keep cropping up and growing.... and growing?

I don't want to seem ignorant, nor arrogant, but in Google's OWN terms, they suggest limiting the size of OUTBOUND Links (to other sites) to no more than 100 on a single page.

No where else in their Terms do they come close to defining what they mean by "link farm" - so the logical point I wanted to make - don't risk getting dropped because someone else in the Google organization may have their own definition.

Am really curious as to why one would want to put 254 outbound links on a single page. Do you really want to lose your site visitors once your page loads?


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