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Gray bar - can't get recip links
Sheppy




msg:145720
 5:18 am on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

A good portion of my sales come from the traffic I get from my recip links with other related sites. The problem I am having is that my site is now showing a grey bar (since the last update, was 4 and 5)yet I am still getting the same traffic from google and I am still in the top 3 or 4 on a lot my keywords. I was under the impression that if I had a grey bar I was not included in the index at all yet nothing seems to have changed other than the grey bar. As I am always looking for good recip links(which increases my sales) now I am having a ton of trouble getting other webmasters to link to me because of this grey bar. Any words of wisdom would be appreciated.

 

Lots0




msg:145721
 5:47 am on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I know this won’t help in the short term but -
Start educating the Webmasters you deal with that the Google tool bar PR is not an accurate refection of your site, or anyone’s site for that matter.

Uninstall the Google tool bar and never worry about Google’s PR again.

BigDave




msg:145722
 6:31 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would recommend that you continue to look for sites that would be good for your link campaign, but wait to contact them till the next update when you have PR showing in the toolbar again. At least this way you havn't burned that site as a possible link.

Use this time to work on other aspects of your site.

Lots0




msg:145723
 7:43 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Bigd said,
but wait to contact them till the next update when you have PR showing in the toolbar again.

And what if his PR never returns?

Like I said educate webmasters about the fact Google's tool bar PR is not an accurate assessment of their site.

According to Google the tool bar PR just an opinion that Google arbitrarily decides.

Uninstall Google's tool bar and never worry about Google's PR again.

Digimon




msg:145724
 9:24 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Quite easy. If the other webmasters don't want link to you because your grey Pr you should explain them the problem (if they know about the gopogle toolbar they should know about the google glitchs). You are still indexed in google and ranking pretty well for your Kw's. Just a toolbar's temporal bug. I think they should understand it


According to Google the tool bar PR just an opinion that Google arbitrarily decides

Are you sure?
arbitrarily?
Do you mean the PR calculation is just an opinion?
Are you sure PR doesn't mind for SEO?
Seriousness posting, please!

[edited by: Digimon at 11:39 pm (utc) on Jan. 12, 2003]

Lots0




msg:145725
 9:52 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

According to Google the tool bar PR just an opinion that Google arbitrarily decides.

I stand by what I wrote - disprove it, if you can.

And I was serious...

jomaxx




msg:145726
 11:05 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

Educate me all you want, but I personally would be unlikely to link to a site that had been around for a long time but was PR0.

Lots0




msg:145727
 11:35 pm on Jan 12, 2003 (gmt 0)

To link or not is the webmasters choice - Some can chose not to link cuz they don't like the text size or color on a page. Not saying any different.

Just that if you chose not to link cuz of an arbitrary opinion be aware that that opinion most likely will change in a few weeks or months so the high PR sites you link today become the PR0 sites of tomorrow and vice-versa. Why not just uninstall the Google tool bar and never worry about PR again, even Google says “Would I do this if search engines didn't exist?".

So I say again uninstall the tool bar - never worry about PR again.

<added> there are also some very serious security concerns about Google’s tool bar - a 38 year cookie - automatic updates, with out asking for permission - just to name a few</added>

Digimon




msg:145728
 12:00 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lots0, I'm sure you know quite a lot about PR, don't you?
;)
I don't think you would need my big list of links to articles and papers about Page Rank.
Nevertheless if somebody is interested I can sticky it.

Lots0




msg:145729
 12:16 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lots0, I'm sure you know quite a lot about PR, don't you?

I am flattered, but I am always willing to learn more, go ahead and sticky me, if you would be so kind. :)

But, I bet none of the sources you have talk about the fact Google Hand Manipulates PR based on arbitrary personal opinions - A fact that Google has admitted in US Federal Court.

So in real life, all the mathematical PR algorithms don’t matter.

Digimon




msg:145730
 1:30 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

:)
No Lots0, you don't need my links about PR. And I would never pay 20$ to read the stuff about that process in US Federal Courts....
;)

Lots0




msg:145731
 2:08 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Not approprate - so I deleted it - sorry

[edited by: Lots0 at 3:21 am (utc) on Jan. 13, 2003]

jomaxx




msg:145732
 2:31 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Why don't we return to Sheppy's original question...

Sheppy, what is the style of your homepage URL? Don't include the actual URL, but is it simply the domain name by itself, or do you use an .aspx page or something like that? Google can handle virtually any type of web page properly, but for may page types the toolbar doesn't *display* the PR.

Are all your pages graybarred, or just the homepage, or what?

Do you have any reason to think that your site could be linking to or showing up in link farms, topsite lists, guestbooks, etc.?

percentages




msg:145733
 2:47 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

jomaxx, well said with that first sentance :)

Sheppy, welcome to WW. If it is of any consolation I have about 1% of my sites get the gray bar after every update. They keep their positions just like yours. They always get their PR back the following month without me doing a thing about it. I think it is just a GoogleGlitch.

If you haven't done anything you know you shouldn't have, then you will most likely be okay.

I wouldn't worry about giving a grey bar site a link if it ranked high in SERP's, but many people will. So if they are links you really want I would hold fire on the requests until after the next update, when I'm almost certain you will be back to normal PR :)

Sheppy




msg:145734
 3:04 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi Jomaxx
The site domain name is like this www.mydomain.com. All html. All my pages (about 200) are greyed out. I have been pretty careful about link farms but I am in some toplists. I didnt know they would hurt me. I am in the process tonite of going through my links again and checking out PR ect.

Hi %'s
Thanks for the welcome. Most everybody I have talked to think I should get my PR back. During the last update it just about drove me crazy (more that usual) as my site had PR one minute and the next grey. I havent done anything to cheat the search engines, not that I would really know how to anyways. As I am going through my links tonite, I am getting a list of recip links that I am going to have to drop. I do have a couple of greyed out recips that are just too important to me ie. traffic

Thanks for the help on this. Much appreciated
Shepp

vitaplease




msg:145735
 6:37 am on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sheppy, not sure this has to do with your case, but

I have a whole subdirectory with a greyed out toolbar pagerank - for months.
(whereas I am in top area for the specific Google/DMOZ category list in rankings)

In my case it has to do with the fact that I use a "ç" in the url.
(Google has problems with showing toolbar Pagerank for certain foreign characters)

Check if any pages of your site are in DMOZ/ODP and show a Pagerank there.

TWhalen




msg:145736
 11:29 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)


Not to bring this up again, but I totally agree with LotsO:

Uninstall your Google toolbar and never look at PR again.

(Worrying about PR is about as important as creating a meta keywords tag.)

Digimon




msg:145737
 11:46 pm on Jan 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Much better we should forget google and optimize for Altavista and Excite, shouldn`t we?
Lets solve the problem of the folk with reciprocal links and keep the toolbar discussions in the apropiatte forum

Lots0




msg:145738
 5:06 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lets solve the problem of the folk with reciprocal links...

I thought that was we were doing - trying to solve a problem.

The problem is a grey PR on the Google tool bar - solution - get rid of the Google tool bar.

Uninstall the Google tool bar and never worry about Google's PR ranking again - It is not an accurate determination of a pages value - Far more pages are hurt by Google's tool Bar PR measurement than are helped.

Case in point Mr. Sheppy here: Sheppy has said he is now going to go through his links deleting any pages links that are grey bar'ed like himself - Does ANY PROFESSIONAL SEO out there think that sheppy's page is going to be helped by this action?

In the long run Sheppy is hurting himself, based on faulty information he is receiving from the tool bar and from some Webmasters (who just like Google no matter what they do) and not Professional SEO's.

So I say again - Uninstall Google's tool bar and never ever worry about Google's PR again.

Fiver




msg:145739
 9:40 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

ok Lotso, I've got some great waterfr0nt pr0perty for you to link to in fl0rida.

hope it's as unimportant as you say to not know the pr of someone you're linking to.

... sorry, didn't follow Digimon's good suggestion of keeping on topic.

As for the original question, just make it part of your link solicitation to say your PR is grayed out due to a temporary bug and you still have your rankings so linking to you is not a risk. That's what I'd do.

Lots0




msg:145740
 10:54 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

fiver said,
As for the original question, just make it part of your link solicitation to say your PR is grayed out due to a temporary bug and you still have your rankings so linking to you is not a risk. That's what I'd do.

fiver, are you a professional SEO? If you are (and I very much doubt it) giving this kind of advice must have you swamped with customers, wanting their money back...

Google's tool bar PR is vastly over rated by the uninformed or partialy informed Webmasters. It is not an accurate or fair way to judge a web page.

Uninstall Google's tool bar and never ever worry about Google's PR again.

TWhalen




msg:145741
 11:01 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google be damned.

If linking my site to another site which I believe to be valuable to my visitors will hurt my "precious PR", then the PR rank is not worth it.

I design my sites to be valuable to MY visitors, not the OPINION of Google. (and PR is just an OPINION, afterall...)

My reason? I have yet to find any instances (in my line of business, for my keywords anyway...) where PR means anything at all. I have higher PR than some sites that outrank me in the SERPS, as well as lower PR for sites that I outrank in the SERPS. Where's the consistency that shows me I should even care?

My PR has gone up and down from 8 to 6 to 8 to 7 in the past year, and I have yet to see any substantial change in the amount of traffic I receive.

Until PR becomes THE SINGLE MOST important factor, uninstall your toolbar, and never look at PR again. (It'll save you a lot of headaches!)

Philosopher




msg:145742
 11:33 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

This thread seems to have deteriorated into a toolbar bashing thread.

For better or for worse, the toolbar is used by a very large number of webmasters. Telling Sheppy to uninstall it and never worry about PR again is akin to an Ostrich sticking it's head in the ground and hiding...definitely not the solution to the problem.

As long as Google is as important as it is, any webmaster with vision is going to use the toolbar to keep from accidentally linking to a site Google has deemed a "bad neighborhood".

Sheppy, it sounds like you don't have much choice but to wait until the next update. Keep track of those sites you are currently exchanging links with and email them again when your PR is showing again.

Good luck.

TWhalen




msg:145743
 11:59 pm on Jan 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

On the contrary,
I believe implying that Sheppy pay extra close attention to his PR while searching for links is more akin to telling "chicken little to watch out, because the sky is falling".

It ain't gonna happen.

Anyway, my advice to Sheppy would be to ultimately keep plugging away at trying to find links from websites who aren't as fearful of the Google toolbar, and go back to requesting links from the others after some time.

*Edited - point taken, Philosopoher.

[edited by: TWhalen at 12:42 am (utc) on Jan. 15, 2003]

Philosopher




msg:145744
 12:12 am on Jan 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmm...please quote properly. No one in this thread told Sheppy to pay extra close attention to his PR and certainly no one used "or else".

Added..I would hope a moderator will lock this thread as it seems it has certainly lost it's usefulness.

Lots0




msg:145745
 12:56 am on Jan 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would hope a moderator will lock this thread as it seems it has certainly lost it's usefulness.
Locking a thread cuz you don't agree with what is being said is akin to censorship.

I have seen several people post that it is ridiculous to even think of not following Google’s PR very closely - I say bunk - Show some example of why you believe this way - I have given examples of why I believe the way I do...

And Sheppy (or any webmaster) Why don’t you send the URL of this thread along with your requests for links? That might generate you more links when Webmasters start realizing that Google’s tool bar PR is not an accurate judge of a web page.

pmac




msg:145746
 3:37 am on Jan 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Gray bar - can't get recip links

To bring this back to the original post.......

If you are in the Google directory, and the toolbar PR value is in fact a glitch, knowledgeable webmasters will see the PR value in the directory and still recip with you if they feel obliged.( Point it out to them) It's a temporary and inconvenient solution to your problem, but it may get you through in the short term.

Good Luck!

Marcia




msg:145747
 4:02 am on Jan 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>To bring this back to the original post...

Totally agreed, let's keep with the original situation being discussed.

I personally find the toolbar invaluable, both for myself and for client education, for their own protection against linking to bad neighborhoods. There is nothing that could convince me to uninstall it.

There are still penalized sites out there deceiving webmasters into linking by hiding their unmistakably penalized PR0 pages inside frames that it takes a lot of maneuvering to discover.

But that isn't what this discussion is about.

>lock this thread

We don't have to lock the thread, but we do have to remember that everyone's opinion is welcome. We also have to avoid taking an argumentative, repetitive, insistent stance. There are differences in opinion, and we're all entitled to our own - to have them and to share them in a congenial climate.

Philosopher




msg:145748
 5:08 am on Jan 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have seen several people post that it is ridiculous to even think of not following Google’s PR very closely - I say bunk - Show some example of why you believe this way - I have given examples of why I believe the way I do...

PR is only one factor, but it is an important factor. If anyone believes otherwise, I would love to see even one site that is currently under the PR0 penalty that ranks even close to decent.

Sure sites with lower PR can outrank sites with higher PR, that is, once again, because PR is only a part of the ranking algorithm, but in general, the rankings will follow the PR values of the pages.

A good example was posted by Brett today here

[webmasterworld.com...]

Follow his link to Jacob Nielsen's site and you will see the tiny text at the very bottom of the page. With only those instances of the various spelling possibilities of his name, his site is at the top for all but two of the them. Since they are only found in that one place and nowhere else on the page including the title tag (except for the meta keywords tag which is moot), the only logical conclusion is that it is because that particular page has a PR of 8, far above that of the other sites returned for the various misspellings of his name.

PR does matter and it is important to know that the site you are considering linking to is not currently being penalized and the only way to know this (unless the site is in the Google Directory) is through the use of the toolbar.

Fiver




msg:145749
 3:13 pm on Jan 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lotso keeps saying:
Google's tool bar PR is vastly over rated by the uninformed or partialy ..... Uninstall Google's tool bar and never ever worry about Google's PR again.

dude, you don't get it. It doesn't matter if google's PR is not an accurate reflection of the quality of a site. Doesn't matter one little bit. *Functionally* when attempting to solicit links, it has become a relevant variable, and perhaps unfortunately, it can have veto power.

true, not when someone solicits a link from you specifically, but this isn't your party we're talking about.

Philosopher was right when he said that ignoring it is akin to an Ostrich sticking it's head in the ground and hiding. Other webmasters aren't going to ignore it just because you do, whether you're right to or not.

To keep this thread relevant let's sum it up for poor, undoubtedly confused, Sheppy:

you can:
a) Ignore your PR and hope the websites you link to do also
b) Wait it out, a grey toolbar isn't a white one, you may be fine
c) Include a disclaimer in your link solicitations (double bonus, you make the other webmaster aware that you know something at all about seo)
d) Try and convince every webmaster you meet that they should ignore the google toolbar (perhaps admirable, but a heck of a lot of work for arguable return)

others want to add to this list? there are likely lots of options.

This 33 message thread spans 2 pages: 33 ( [1] 2 > >
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