| 7:04 pm on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Yidaki, if some of those sites link back then your current strategy may be loosing you a little PageRank.
just a thought...
| 7:10 pm on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)|
BigDave, yes it works - however it could allways work a bit better! ;)
Ciml, thanks for your tip! Allthough i plan to put some dedicated links on every category page that'll be straight links - not scripted, i don't understand why you think i'd loose a little bit pr if someone's back linking to me ...
Can you explain that to me, please?
| 7:58 pm on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)|
| 8:01 pm on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Sure Yidaki. If you link to someone and they link back, then you get back a small part of the PR that you gave them. If you link to a /robots.txt excluded URL then the PageRank that you would be giving away is lost, so you can't get any back.
It's usually a very small effect, but it's there. Also, if they are complimentary to you then linking to them may help them get traffic. Some of those people may be relevant to you. Oh, and they might not want to reciprocate.
So outbound links can help, indirectly.
| 10:06 pm on Dec 16, 2002 (gmt 0)|
> It's usually a very small effect, but it's there.
>Also, if they are complimentary to you then linking
>to them may help them get traffic. Some of those people
>may be relevant to you. Oh, and they might not want
Ciml, that's right ... thanks! For this i'll establish some deticated direct links to site in know good. I don't like to link all sites directly cause it's impossible to future control that they don't turn into "bad neighborhood".
>Google might decide to penalize sites that subvert
| 6:30 am on Dec 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|There is a benefit to you, and the web in general, when linking out. It establishes you as an authority hub. |
Martinibuster's post sort of clarified this whole issue for me. There must be some sort of pagerank given to sites for having outbound links otherwise, how would Yahoo, dmoz and other directories maintain their pagerank?
| 10:43 am on Dec 17, 2002 (gmt 0)|
> ...otherwise, how would Yahoo, dmoz and other directories maintain their pagerank?
They have a lot of links to them. Yahoo! and Dmoz are old and well established. People are happy to link to those kinds of sites, often to deep categories. This is compounded but the number of old and well established sites that are happy to link to such sites.
On the other hand, there's been plenty of research into the hub and authority model, and GoogleGuy once mentioned 'hub score and authority score' so there's a good chance that this will become an important element IMO.
| 7:09 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Ciml (aka Spock ;) )
|They have a lot of links to them. |
I agree but you may have missed my point. DMOZ shows 306K backlinks to its main page. (granted the actual number may be larger than this considering deep links.) But even so, you would think their pagerank would be diluted somewhat with 3.8 million outbound links.
...unless, they were receiving pagerank from being a hub.
Does this example show anything or am I up in the night?
| 7:29 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
You do NOT lose PR by linking out. The PR that comes in to your page does not go away. When people refer to PR leak, they are saying that you are linking to an outside site when you could be linking to your own, and passing your PR to yourself.
All these directories also have the advantage of having many thousands of pages, many with very high PR, linking back to the home page and all the pages back up through their tree.
| 7:46 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
The (raw) PageRank of a URL is the sum of the (raw) PageRank given to that URL. The outbound links reduce the amount of feedback from the home page to other pages and back to the home page, but I don't think that this would be more than 0.75 of a Toolbar notch.
> ...unless, they were receiving pagerank from being a hub.
If you mean by hub what I think you mean, then that is the only way to aquire PageRank.
Live long and prosper.
| 7:49 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
The web is woven by links from site to site. Without linking you have a site that is its own part of the web and not following the strategy of linking to other parts of the web.
Business websites I generally don't link out because there really isnt a need to. If i find a site that they want linked i will without a doubt.
My information sites, I link out all the time - They have more people linking in and I link out and they have higher ranking and so forth.
| 7:52 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
hmmm, well yes, that would also explain it.
Either way, IMHO, directories remain the best example that it doesn't hurt to have outbound links. If what ciml and others are saying about "hub and authority" are correct, outbound links might also benefit pagerank.
Thanks for your thoughts.
| 8:00 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Well, I guess I was thinking of a "hub" in the sense of a directory, or a center where people go first to look for links going out to various points of interest.
"Logically" of course! ;)
| 8:11 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
Sorry Idaho, I misunderstood. You get PageRank only from links into a page. As far as I know, Google doesn't yet give credit for whom you link.
| 8:14 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
It took a minute to sink in, but considering the posts of Ciml and BigDave's together, I think I finally understand what I've been hearing about pagerank leak.
Having outbound links doesn't cause your pagerank to drop it just dilutes the pagerank you would normally pass along to the rest of your site from that page where your outbound links are located.
| 9:32 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
|Google doesn't yet give credit for whom you link. |
I'm not sure about that. Maybe I'm the only one. But contemplate what GoogleGuy said. He made reference to a "hub-like score." He used the word "score" in reference to "hubs" in the context of PR authority, which implies points.
Is this "hub-like" score a ranking component of Google's algo? I believe it is. While everyone's obsessing over their "authority" score (amassing incoming links), they are overlooking their "hub" score.
One can argue that the "hub" score merely "classifies" a web site. But one can say the same about the "authority" score. It "classifies" a web site as an authority on a topic.
So, aren't sites that are rich with information on where to get more information also not authorities as well?
I think I may understand a little clearer what GoogleGuy means when he says that we get too hung up with the PR aspect of the algo.
Of course, I'm not implying that everyone should concentrate on their hub score. Content and stuff is still very important. I'm just trying to tease a small component of the algo out into the open and wrap my mind around it.
| 9:40 pm on Dec 18, 2002 (gmt 0)|
I think ciml was referring to it's affect on PageRank, in that one case.
PageRank is just PageRank. The only thing that affects it other than incoming links and their ranking, would be any penalty applied. It would just complicate things unnecessarily to do otherwise.
Bonuses for outbound links and "hub-like" would fit much better in other parts of the algo.
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