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This 273 message thread spans 10 pages: < < 273 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 > >     
November 2002 Google Update

 5:09 am on Nov 28, 2002 (gmt 0)

Did I announce it first?



 8:25 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

"a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."

Let me tell ya...

No, no, no...! Don't det rid of all our link! I thought you were experienced is search engine techniques. Don't you know anything! Link popularity is the most important thing to getting ranked high in search engines.

You know... I told my boss that you were probably useless, (seriously, he said just that) and he should just give me a raise and I'll take him to #1.

I really loved this one... Now let's put all of this in context.

1. five (in-house maintained) web sites heavily crosslinked.

2. three other partnered companies web sites (resellers) heavily crosslinked.

3. Every "transparent gif", "comma", "hyphen", "quotation marks", and "period", on every page was a link, including the periods between...

Product . . . . . . . . . $100.00
Product . . . . . . . . . $100.00
Product . . . . . . . . . $100.00

...were all crosslinks.

But link pop is very important.

[edited by: fathom at 8:26 am (utc) on Nov. 29, 2002]


 8:26 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

first off..Happy Turkey Day everyone!I think this update looks so so ... it could be better but its not terrible. Thank you Google! I think my PR may of been flipped back if the directory is showing the new PR. Its hard to tell but may of risen to PR5 after sinking to a PR3 last month. Still backlinks look like their missing though, all of them? Well still got some decent ranks of 1-15 and then some worse :(

Just to comment on the deal with the hosting.. I pay.. ohh when I add it up at the end of the month about 5-6 times what I used to pay with hostway.com who was supposed to be pretty good. Once I saw them going down and messing me up.. I had to jump ship. If you are serious about your site, how could you not invest in the best of the best for hosting? Like GG said I think, this is the foundation of all! If your going to build on a crappy foundation, then why bother? Or if you do bother then dont complain and dont expect much to come of it for the many reasons including they could be down alot, penalized for porn and such on their ips ..... cmon, use your heads. Would you rent a store in an 100 year old bldg in the projects that is crumbling down or would you go for your everyday place.. ok.. not a good comparison.. but you get the jest.. good luck to all this month! Heres to a profitable, healthy and happy Season!



 8:35 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Where does Yahoo! get its results? I'm still showing last months results on www.G, but Yahoo! is all new and improved:)


 9:28 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Should be called

October Update part 2? or 1.5?


 10:17 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)


Sorry to hear your misery, we faced the same in early march.

Just for everybody who needs close to 100% uptime..

We switched to so called "round robin" with our domains, which just needs the following:

1.) Fairly fast influence on the nameservers, you might talk to some guys here, who run their own 2 nameservers in different networks

2.) 2 dedicated machines with 2 different providers, sticky mail me, I have a good list with 99 bucks per machine for Linux boxes in Canada and the US (no, i dont get provision :-)

Now you ask your nameserver provider to enter your domains as "round robin", which means the nameserver rotates the IP numbers for these domains.

If one of your servers goes offline, just update the nameservers and stop the "round robin" and just let them give the working IP.

All in all, you should get along with something around 200 bucks a month for fairly good security.

It is not fail-safe, but it saved our butts 2 times already...


running scared

 10:54 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

The google dance tool looks to have been PR0'd. Has this always been the case?


 11:00 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)
Sorry for re posting...but this is important

Cj.com affiliate links are getting indexed...;(

Example: (not real url)
....would be a redirect to:

Both are getting indexed.
www.qksrv.net is cj.com tracking url.

Thousands of people use it. What are your thoughts.
Wouldnt this be considered dupe content?

I am sure i am not the only one with this problem


 11:23 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Well I'll be damned. We've been knocked of the topspot by a (decent I have to say) site with no backward links at all and a couple of asp hobby pages from a well known site.

We had that spot for over a year and we're number 4 now.

Praying for a last minute comeback :)))


 11:34 am on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

For those of you who keep posting variations of: "Is it over yet? Am I ok if www3 is good and www2 is different? When will it be in www?"

The Google Dance takes several days. During that time, what you see on www2 or www3 may make brief apperances on www on certain servers (i.e. depending on where you connect from, you may or may not see the same thing).

<Snipped reference to Dance Tool>

[edited by: Woz at 12:19 pm (utc) on Nov. 29, 2002]
[edit reason] Per Charter "No Tools sites or urls please" [/edit]


 12:29 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Looks like PR that was lost last update has recovered? Maybe? Keeps bouncing back and forth so darn fast... :)


 12:35 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi europe and thanks for your excellent reply.

Like I said to radiosky in a sticky, I regret using the words 'ONLY producing good content' in my original post, as this is clearly not how you achieved your rankings alone. Sorry about that.

I think to summarise how I feel about the whole thing: Basically, I'm not on some crusade to prove that SEO is a complex mystical area that only SEOs know about, or that it's rocket science. In fact, it's quite easy, most of it is just common sense.

But not involving complex programming skills shouldn't devalue SEO as a legitimate business concern. The way I sell SEO is like this. "It isn't hard - I'll even show you how to do it - but wouldn't you rather pay me for all the time and effort that's involved rather than do it youself?"

Again, the intention of my original post was to ask for a re-think of the style of Google's SEO page, as it is written in a very negative fashion.

Sorry for the confusion.


 12:56 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Funny how this Google Dance works...I know the dance isn't done yet, and things will settle down, but it's still funny. I figured I might as well post this for other newer webmasters who might be a bit confused with their logs.

I am getting a bunch of referrers in my logs from Google and Yahoo, but every time I go to the actual query (copy paste from logs), I'm never there....lol...This is beginning to make me a feel a bit coo-coo. I sure hope things settle down soon so I can actually see my positions on the reg. Google and check out my new PR, since I haven't had one yet! :)

Newbies...You are not going crazy. You are getting hits from Google and Yahoo, but only sporatically, so when "you" actually look, your site isn't listed. I think this is because things haven't settled down yet, but soon they will.

Happy Late Thanksgiving All!



 1:15 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Can anyone confirm that the Google Directory has been updated with this recent Google Update?

I know that my site had a few pages added to DMOZ at least 1 week before the current Google Update. Does anyone know when Google downloads its ODP RDF Dump for the update?


 1:24 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WebmasterWorld, geckofuel.

It seems that the Open Directory have had problems with the RDF dump. You are likely to have the backlink crawled from dmoz.org before the Google Directory knows about the ODP entry.


 2:39 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Think PR calculations are going on I can see my PR fluctuate.



 2:54 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think the reason Google does these updates on holidays is simply because the internet is less busy and workers are off and the stock market is closed, this way the googlebot does not burden anyone's bandwidth and the googlebot has more bandwidth to quickly do its job.

Anyone concur?


 3:58 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Would make alot of sense them doing that...i would


 4:04 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

but if building a page as Brett recommends in his 12 months to a successful site in Google - I hardly think that qualifies as SEO.

Drat, I've been found out!

fyi: the orginal title for that was, Building a Successful Site Without Search Engines.


 4:25 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm not sure if this is speculation or fact. It seems to me that the update has migrated to www much faster this time around. At least the SERPs I'm seeing have reflected the update in www for about the last 12 hours.


 4:28 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)


The 12 months is what I love about your recommendations. I am so tired of people expecting to get instant results with Google.

My recomendation is Don't quit your day job! Key words and developing good site structure may not take long but developing excellent content and gathering quality related links to your site takes months of work.



 4:45 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Go60Guy still dancing in the UK at the moment but with some fresh listings in www2 and www3...


 4:53 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

I am beginning to feel like a yo-yo!
My main site is up two positions, then down two positions. Next time I look it is up two positions again....
PR still holding steady with it's 7/10...Goooo Google!



 4:57 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Guys can anyone tell me what will happen once the PR is calculated? ie.. Will our sites that have increased in PR move up in the serps once the PR is factored in, or is what we see in www2, and www3 what we can expect once it migrates over to www?

Thanks in advance.


 5:02 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

Key words and developing good site structure may not take long but developing excellent content and gathering quality related links to your site takes months of work.

Also, it takes time for Google to:

1) Spider any changes and additions that you've made.

2) Calculate PageRank for new pages and recalculate PageRank for pages that you've revised or moved around.


 5:45 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

PR tends to be factored in just before the results migrate to www. Often a site will show a serp of, lets say 4, consistently on www2 and www3 throughout the dance then, when ALL results are migrated drop or rise slightly depending on PR. This phenomenon is noted by someone each update.


 6:31 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

NeedScripts: I get sleep when I can, but I'm away from the googleplex right now with relatives for Thanksgiving. As long as it's hard to get work done, I thought I'd drop by here to answer questions. Not that I haven't been eating my share of turkey, too. :)

The things that I liked about radiosky and europeforvisitor's (and Brett's) posts is that they stress getting back to basics: adding good content and making a good site architecture with search-engine friendly pages that are easy to crawl. The philosophy of "don't chase after shortcuts, but pay attention to improving the site a little bit every day for users" resonates with me very strongly. To me, that's is the best type of SEO, whether you decide to call it that or not. ;) Things like paying attention to what users type, and putting those words on your pages in a natural way. Basic keyword research to find out what people in your field type when they're looking for you. I'm a big believer in the "12 month" plan. :)

Okay, off to see if I can find a good post-Thanksgiving deal on a hard drive. Most people who work at Google seem to love having lots of hard drives. Mmmm, vast quantities of storage..


 6:54 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Things like paying attention to what users type, and putting those words on your pages in a natural way.

The problem is that writing for search engine algos and best use of English are incompatible. SEs like repetition. Good style usually means avoiding repetition, and phrasing things to avoid it. Thus the trick is to both write in a way the SE algos like, while not making it seem *too* unnatural to a human reader. This fact is the main argument for directories. Human editors, if they do a good job, can find the good pages that the bots won't.


 7:46 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

The problem is that writing for search engine algos and best use of English are incompatible. SEs like repetition.

So? If you were writing a page about Paris or widgets, wouldn't you repeat the term "Paris" or "widgets" fairly often on the page? You wouldn't need to use the term three times in a sentence or paragraph. In the normal course of events, you'd almost certainly use it enough to catch Google's attention--especially if the page title and headline included "Paris" or "widgets."

Good style usually means avoiding repetition, and phrasing things to avoid it.

That's a common misconception, and it leads to amateurish attempts at variety such as:

"I need a drink," he said.

"Beer or wine?" she replied.

"Wine," he shot back.

"Red or white?" she responded.

"Red," he elucidated.

(This is a pretty extreme example, but it does illustrate my point.)


 8:57 pm on Nov 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

I just found something interesting.

A page that I newly created and added to one of my domains last Friday - 11/22/02 - is showing up now in w2.

If it shows up when the update is done, that will be really cool!


 12:21 am on Nov 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

GG, I'm sure with 10,000 machines lying around no one will notice if you use part of one partition of one of the machines just "lying around" the plex ;)

You must have known that someone would ask this, so I'll make the first move...how are you gonna search for that drive?

Hmm..using that new google product search engine people have been speculating about? <innocent expression>


 12:50 am on Nov 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

Anyone seen the deepcrawl bot around yet?

This 273 message thread spans 10 pages: < < 273 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 [7] 8 9 10 > >
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