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Google listing disappeared after 2 weeks
(GG on EverFlux)
ken72




msg:196523
 7:28 am on Oct 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

I guys i am a bit new at this. I have been waiting to get listed on google for about two months then about 2 weeks ago I got listed and actually got a no. 1 listingon one of my keywords. Traffic increase was great but then suddenly today I am not listed anymore. Has anyone experienced this? I did a search in "google dance" in all the datacenters but I am just not there anymore. HELP

 

Nick_W




msg:196524
 7:33 am on Oct 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WebmasterWorld!

Try a site search for 'everflux' all will be revealed.

But in short:

This is normal, you get listed permanently when Google updates (any day now) but sometimes if G's 'freshbot' picks up your page they are temporarily included in the SERP's.

Nick

ken72




msg:196525
 7:45 am on Oct 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi Nick,

Thank you for the warm welcome. Did a search under everflux as suggested and sort of understand it. But does it mean that my pages will be listed in Google again after after the next update which happens at the end of October? Will the position be roughly the same?

Thank you for your help

Kindest regards,

Ken

Nick_W




msg:196526
 8:00 am on Oct 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yeah, you're page should be in after the update. As for position: I doubt it. 'Fresh' pages seem to get a boost...

Nick

GoogleGuy




msg:196527
 8:42 am on Oct 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

ken72, no promises about where your site may or may not be listing, but your question is the perfect one to answer about "everflux."

If your site is new, or hasn't shown up in Google for long, it may because our "fresh crawl" (which runs each day) was finding your site instead of our main crawl (which runs about once a month). Our "fresh crawl" is a newer feature, and we're still experimenting with which pages to crawl, how deeply to crawl, etc. We even reserve the right to (gasp!) not do a fresh crawl on some days because we're doing tests or reviewing new code. Someone wrote in recently and said "my site got in Google three weeks ago, and you've dropped me four times!" ;) Nope, it's just that we don't always crawl the same pages in our fresh crawl, and we don't always crawl to the same depth. As we do a full crawl of the web, we find most of the sites from our fresh crawl and put them in our regular index. My advice on our fresh crawl is to view it as a nice "bonus" on top of Google's deep index. Users can always search our full index, but sometimes we can serve up even fresher pages as an extra nicety. :)

What does this mean for the average webmaster? In the word of the great Hitchhiker's Guide, "Don't Panic." Just do the normal things you should do:

1. Create a great site.
2. Submit your site to Google on our "add url" form.
3. Get a link from the Open Directory Project or other directories (Yahoo, etc.).
4. Don't panic if your site takes a little while to show up in Google. Be patient, and start to look around the web--there's lots of great advice about improving your site for users and search engines.

Hope this helps,
GoogleGuy

P.S. If some moderator or Brett wants to lock this thread, we can just point people to it as a question that is pretty common. :)

Nick_W




msg:196528
 8:48 am on Oct 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

Nice one GG!

Nick

QNetwork




msg:196529
 6:40 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

Googleguy:

Thanks for the great info on fresh crawl. Is there any logic how frequently a page/site will be crawled by the "freshbot"? Any relation to PR? Something else?

WebGuerrilla




msg:196530
 7:42 pm on Oct 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

>>If some moderator or Brett wants to lock this thread, we can just point people to it as a question that is pretty common.

Thanks for the info GoogleGuy.

I have added it to the Google library so it will be easy to find.

2_much




msg:196531
 1:03 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

So once a site gets "fresh" crawled, why does it drop?

Does it have to be re-crawled every day for it to show?

Or does it drop because Google's serving results from a different data center?

fathom




msg:196532
 7:12 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

So once a site gets "fresh" crawled, why does it drop?

hmmm... I suspect that the previous "fresh crawls" are cancelled out by the new fresh crawl -- since these are not "retained" archives and new pages (not same) can be crawled each day.

Does it have to be re-crawled every day for it to show?

I would believe so. If your site is already in the previous monthly crawl your results would be back to normal ranked positions (unless someone elses page is fresh crawled -- above or below you.

Or does it drop because Google's serving results from a different data center?

Would again think -- just reverting to normal.

Reasonable guess work anyway, in the absence of a real inside Google knowledge, the king at his craft! :)

[edited by: fathom at 7:18 am (utc) on Oct. 31, 2002]

thunderpaste




msg:196533
 7:17 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

I always thought a page added in the fresh cycle drops in the main update due to PR being factored in.

Since newly indexed pages are less likely to have incoming links they get assigned a lower PR and this can result in lower rankings.

GoogleGuy




msg:196534
 7:52 am on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

fathom's got it. When we do a new fresh crawl, it currently replaces the last fresh crawl. And again, we do experiments from time to time, so different crawls may visit different pages.

Tor




msg:196535
 2:43 pm on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

Excellent guess work fathom!

GlynMusica




msg:196536
 5:17 pm on Oct 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

Googleguy,

When you do a Fresh Crawl do you update those DNS entries for sites that Google crawled before? I've waited for 3 crawls from Google but still it tries to index the site location when it was on another server. The results, keywords that pull the wrong site in the Google listings.

Any input gratefully received.
Glyn.

hutchins13




msg:196537
 5:18 am on Nov 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

I had a site in Google since about the first quarter of last year. Everything was great until the Sept. update when the site disappeared (grey PR, no penalty).

Two days after the update, the site showed up in the fresh crawl (I assume since only about 36 pages were there, all with the fresh date). The site stayed in the index through this month with the number of pages in the index fluctuating with each fresh update.

With the new monthly update, the site has again disappeared. Why would this happen? Since it was found by the freshbot, why would goglebot not find it and add the site to the full index?

(Note: The site has many incoming links including a listing in Yahoo.)

trueMarketing




msg:196538
 2:59 pm on Nov 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

A good example of what I do:

I have several medium to large sites in Dmoz with PR of 7 for one site and a 6 for the other (it's new).

These sites are authoritative for several "themes" for keywords like "news" or maybe even certain areas of news specifically which I can't say outright.

What I've done is create sub-pages I can easily add to my Dmoz websites and make the content somewhat refreshed, so in this respect Google can crawl these pages and, in turn, give my other websites which I actually sell products from a higher PR.

I figure why not use these to my advantage to boost my other website's PR if the Dmoz websites are deemed authoritative... which I think they are.

Bernie




msg:196539
 10:11 am on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

i am not sure but maybe this over-month update hit me luckily, here are the facts:

- site was published wednesday afternoon (30.10.02)
- same afternoon the site received a good inbound-link.

since yesterday eve it is completely indexed and results are showing up. if this is a stable condition google's overmonth indexing is like Picard says warp drive to Worf.

i guess it was just luck, but do you see any decisive factors?

fathom




msg:196540
 11:06 am on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

site was published wednesday afternoon (30.10.02)

Not sure what you mean by "published". If this means newly uploaded to your host on the 30th, the chance that Google's monthly bots have crawled is extremely remote.

More likely the refresh bot has crawled.

since yesterday eve it is completely indexed

...definitely sounds likely "minty" to me! :)

Bernie




msg:196541
 1:25 pm on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

fathom: published meant upload to the host, the domain is new, so i guess the thing happened googleguy mentioned: new domains have a higher chance to get the fresh-crawl. i will be observing this domain and its appearance in the google-index for the next days. if it's stays - i'll led you know. :)

Bernie




msg:196542
 1:27 pm on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

i forgot: what means minty?

asamuel




msg:196543
 3:57 pm on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

My site has been on google since june and then at the end of september, it just fell off its top spot for a certain keyword and is now nowhere to be found other keywords have also dropped. It has been crawled but googlebot, so I cant fathom why it has not come back yet?

Bernie




msg:196544
 4:14 pm on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

at the moment www is not showing my warp-inclusion site but www2 and www3 do. weird, isn't it? :)

asamuel




msg:196545
 4:21 pm on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

have they changed the way they work?

jady




msg:196546
 4:32 pm on Nov 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

Ken - similar thing here... Had a client up to #2 spot as of a week before the dance with a PR5 - now the site is gone. Think we just need to wait till next dance and everything should pop back up... Have no reason to get banned, sometimes its funky like that... Your not alone.

crash




msg:196547
 6:44 am on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

minty = fresh

as in 'minty fresh'

yet another term for 'everflux', 'fresh update', 'fresh crawl'

fathom




msg:196548
 7:12 am on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

As crash pointed out the refresh bot is commonly known as "minty" (GoogleGuy's term for the daily refresh) since it attempts to keep old links/pages out and new pages higher in SERP's until Googlebot updates the monthly changes.

Mr_Creosote




msg:196549
 9:46 am on Nov 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

please help,

Our site before September dance was no.5 for our targetted keyword. Google dances and we jump to about 150 for the same keyword. We assumed it was due to the fact that the Algo was changed and spent the month working on content and incoming links. We have also attempted the removal of mirrored sites that the client previously had in place, which we believe to be the cause of the downfall. After this latest dance we're now on page 7 but still miles away from the required first page.

Any advice? Are we working on the right things? Should we be breaking our backs to get rid/hide the mirrored sites?

Please help me as my client is getting more and more skepical as to the worth of SEO with each passing day.

Bernie




msg:196550
 9:10 am on Nov 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

thanks for the english-lesson :)

i just wanted to keep you informed: the site has not disappaered, still showing up and bringing referrers. may it be possible that it's going to last by the regular update?

Bernie




msg:196551
 9:31 am on Nov 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

hi mr_creosote,

don't panic! :)
Our site before September dance was no.5 for our targetted keyword.Google dances and we jump to about 150 for the same keyword.
there was a major algo-shift that came out with the last update - many poeple here lost positions. plus it may be reeinforced by competitor's activities in your case.
We have also attempted the removal of mirrored sites that the client previously had in place, which we believe to be the cause of the downfall.
from my experience mirroring sites may only lead to a pr0 penalty or a ban but I have never heard of any small-penalties you described. Anyhow mirror-content is a no-no you may not use this again.
Any advice?
jup: read all the threads carefully that are related to google's last algo-shift, have a special eye on the statements of googleguy and vitaplease. you'll find out something. :)
Please help me as my client is getting more and more skepical as to the worth of SEO with each passing day.
IMHO this sounds a little bit like you either promised your client to much or he hasn't been completely informed about the seo-business. how about telling him that seo requires some time and that the competitors aren't sleeping either?...you may also go for another (more specific) keyword combination which may not have the same amount of requests per month but may bring visitors who convert better - in the end your customer doesn't need a topranking, neither a huge logfile (with visitors who don't convert) all he needs is sales. :)

fathom




msg:196552
 12:11 am on Nov 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

there was a major algo-shift that came out with the last update - many poeple here lost positions.

This may or may not be the case.

Short of having conclusive evidence beyond:

"I dropped in SERP"

"My PageRank is down"

"My backlinks is down"

you can not conclude "a major algo-shift".

Careful observation produces evidence, not mass fluxuations.

Google has added 6 hundred plus million pages to its index, this tends to suggest most pages previously indexed are now competing with more, not the same amount and certainly not less.

Be careful what you submit as "fact". :)

In theory a algo changes should produce a 50 - 50 split of up's and down's rather than all on one side or the other.

Unless of course we are all doing the same thing, right or the same thing wrong.

This 39 message thread spans 2 pages: 39 ( [1] 2 > >
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