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Our PR went down?!
Can your PR go down?

 10:28 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi All

Our Google PR went down for one of our web sites. Is this possible?
A major change in our actions for this web site is that we have stopped advertising on many major pay-per-clicks (including Overture)for a period of about two weeks.

Could this effect the PR so quickly and so dramatically--its dropped by three!

Please help me as this will definitely assist me in understanding Google PR better.





 10:34 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

It is unlikely that PPC advertising would affect the PR so greatly, it is more likely that you had one high PR site linking to you which has dropped the link or that has been penalised by Google.


 10:35 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

I don't think your Pay per click listing will give you any PR, even thought there are links to your site, they are on a secure site so will not give you any PR!

Your Pr could go down for one of several reasons -

You have lost a lot of links to your site
or more likely one big link has stoped
or you have done something to incur a penalty from google
or if the site was new your pr was only an estimate and when the update occured your real pr was shown.

A drop of three sounds most likely to be a penalty by google.. sorry..

- beat me to it ian -


 10:36 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

What did it go to? I am betting PR2.


 10:38 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

The Pr you see on your site now was calculated about 5 weeks ago, the pr of your site in the next update is already calculated from this months crawl.

so you need to go back six weeks and find out what changed.

has a site which linked to you lost its PR.
have you changed the homepage name index.html to index.php



 10:43 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

cyan_corp on 4:17 pm on Aug 13, 2002 you asked about webposition gold did you ever purchase or download the demo.



 10:58 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi DaveN

Since then I have not bought or downloaded the demo of webposition gold. Do you have experience with webposition gold?

I am going to have to acquire the services of this product because I have had some problems with my Search Engine optimization as of late.
Yahoo Express listing disappears?!
PR drops 3 postions?!

But to answer the question briefly: no I have not followed up on this.



 10:58 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Dave - not a punishment for the use of web postion gold? I have never heard of it actually happening!

- cyan beat me this time - def not a WPgold pen then!


 11:02 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

check the pr in google directory...maybe it is jsut toobar glitch..i get glitches frequesntly - like pr bar is greyed out and i have to reload to get proper pr or visit some link and then go back.


 11:18 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)


How old is the site?

many sites get a higher PR in the first couple of months its like a pr guess. I launched a site no links but it had a PR5 over 2 months passed and i had done no work on this site it dropped to PR2.

I am going to have to acquire the services of this product because I have had some problems with my Search Engine optimization as of late. Yahoo Express listing disappears

Yahoo Express listing disappears their are many threads today about Y! I would read them.

wpg will not fix you SEO problems, Experience will! find out why your site dropped and work on fixing it, look at other sites which out rank you and try and figure out why they out rank you.

Google is a database which as an index and that index is made up from fixed rules

if site a has more keywords in the first ten words than site b then site a is more important give site a 2 points and site b 1 point.

if site b mentions keyword in title give site b 2 points more

etc etc...

but you needed to figure all the points out in your own head there are many threads here which we give a honest view point on but there are hundreds of different combo's. work in your area and analyse the sites around yours. you will figure it out.



 11:55 am on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

HI DaveN

Thnaks for the reply. I will keep inmind all the points you have made here.
Our web site is badly designed as it does not take the fundamentals into consideration. There are only a few meta tags on the home page and it is dominated with flash graphics thta take a bit of time to load.

I have read the Y! postings and they are disheartening considering this is major search engine.
Overall I do get your point and I will have to develop basic skills and knowledge in this Search Optimization game. I have to do the basics and try and determine the "rules" which lead to success.

Thanks for your posting.



 1:38 pm on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

The question about WPG was not asked as a fix-me-up solution.

It was asked because there are rumors of Google banning IPs of people using that type of software. If they can trace it back to your site, they could penalize your site also.


 1:51 pm on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

The big problem with google and WPG is that any automated query system is against their TOS.

Google banning on IP that would be hard to enforce on Virtual Servers and any SEO using WPG would certainly not use a fixed IP connection more likely a broadband or isdn dialup.

and they certainly won't only run a report on their own site they would always check two or three competitors sites in the same report sweep just in case ;)

WPG is really used by the little guys and that's the people google catch, Reason google wants to stop the thousands for mama and papa sites using WPG gateways and position checkers it's a drain on bandwidth and processor power, So hit lots of little guys and the word will get out hit a few big guys the the big guys tell their mates and keep it quite while they fix the problem.



 6:49 pm on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Would read the following posts before using WPG.

GoogleGuy [webmasterworld.com]
Google doesn't like any automated form of rank checker. People who use these tools put their domains and IP addresses at risk. Many people think that Google can't detect queries from the top rank checker programs. They're welcome to believe that.

Here is a post that I think makes it clear - use WPG and get a penalty [webmasterworld.com]. I can vouch for its accuracy. I just wish I new before I used it! :(


 7:29 pm on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

using an automated rank checker is bad in google eyes yes, but who's the bad guy? only one thing is the bad guy, the ip address that's doing the automated queries.

so google blocks that ip from searching google..

if auto rank checking decresed the ranks of my competitors (a 'penalty'), don't you think my competitors would all be penalized by now?


 8:49 pm on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think what google means when they say 'you put your domain in jeopardy', applies if you happen to be doing your automatic queries from an ip with a domain associated... ummm. don't do that.

google can't catch all rank checkers, they go after the commercial ones. Any decent group of seos working in a competitive market will have a proprietary rank checker, and they're probably smart enough to run it through proxies.

a proper rank checker gives no information about domains.. even a google algo to catch a rank checker by paring down which domain is most frequent across the serps the checker is pulling, would be pointless, as most seo groups arent just checking on one domain.

just don't use wpg... I've rarely come across clients who actually need a rank checker anyway, they simply think it would be convenient.

using wpg to 'optimize' your page may be another matter, so simply take the advice to not use it. It's more effective to think about what the top ten ranking pages must be doing to get their ranks, than it is to hope someone programmed the 'new hottness' into the latest wpg compile.


 9:25 pm on Oct 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

just don't use wpg...

Lot's of wpg doorway pages showing up in the top 10 now


 1:13 pm on Oct 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

sorry... don't use wpg (to optimize) if you don't want to put your domain in jeopardy.

Not saying it does necessarily, but for some of us, for some projects, any risk to the domain is unacceptable...

..on top of the fact that there's no real need for it.

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