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Minty Fresh Results
New site w/o page rank revisited!

 3:22 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

The site in my profile was launched last month. I was afraid that I had missed the crawl and was resigned to wait until the October dance before my site would make the index. Much to my surprise (and delight) my site made the serps within days of its launch. Not only has the site been included, but it actually ranks extremely well for my target key-word phrases w/o any page rank or recognized inbound links. Imagine my surprise when changes I made just yesterday are ALREADY in the serps today! Needless to say, I am impressed. To quote G.G., Googles results are increasingly "minty fresh". Perhaps someday they'll be able to do daily indexing of the entire net.



 3:38 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Enjoy the listings while they are there, but be prepared for them to disappear in the near future.

It will probably be mid October before you might see some stability.


 4:25 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

For August and this month so far our top level pages have had a fresh tag everyday which is new for us. We havent had anything too significant happen to our site so I can only include that they have perhaps changed their routine a bit.


 5:05 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes, I'm also getting lots of fresh pages in the index this month. I'm only running a humble little site with PR5 on a set of main pages, so I was a bit surprised to see that.


 5:42 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I've got a sorry little stale site that never gets touched and it's had a fresh date on it for a week or so. I just looked and another sorry little stale site now has the fresh date - today's - for the very first time.

I believe it started when the first site got linked to from a freshened site that does get the homepage changed a bit weekly, with new pages recently added, and the latest is linked to from that first one. They're both PR5, one on the low side.

I guess it's time to freshen them up.


 5:59 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Interesting. I made changes to my site a couple of weeks ago and saw them reflected within days in G. Pretty impressive indeed. GBot has been all over my site a lot too.


 11:44 am on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yup. Good ole google has a lot more fresh pages everywhere. Heck, some schmoe (I haven't been actually able to track down the source, yet) must have hot-linked into some search results off of my news feed as that page has been freshed most of the month and there's no link to it from anywhere on my site (you've got to type in the search term to get that page).

Then again, the pages that ARE freshed are not always the freshest on the site. I have a little "site of the week" award I set up for related web sites - people can apply for it, or most likely, I just pick a really good related site, give them the award and say, "You won our award, you don't NEED to do anything, but it'd be cool if you'd link back to us." Works well for both a bit of extra traffic and for PR trickle-up. Oddly, though, a site from last month keeps getting freshed, while the new stuff sits there waiting for the next crawl.

I've got an old post with 1 old reply on my message boards that gets freshed every couple of days. No one has touched it and there are usually 5-6 (it's a slow board, unfortunately) new posts a day, but they don't get crawled. Only thing I can think of is that an article I wrote that gets a fresh tag has a link to the forum post to try to stir up a little action in the boards (it failed miserably to spark action, but google seems to like it).

On average, my site gets anywhere from 5-50 new content rich, spiderable pages a day, all of which appear on the front page in the "newest updates/additions" listing. Google crawls and freshes that front page, but won't touch the new content pages. Yet, it goes back to that stale forum posting and the old SOTW Award page and rehits those.


The new fresh formula probably isn't that much different than before - they just lowered the PR requirements because they have increased their fresh crawl capabilities. (The FreshBot comes in on a whole different string of IP's than the deepcrawl bot). All of the pages seem to have at least one link from another fresh page (either a high PR DMOZ listing, or from another highly ranked and freshed page). I'm not sure the level, but it looks like the inbound PR needs to be 5, but it might be 6.

The "fresh database" seems to be seeded once a month, but there are at least two levels to it:

New "sites" seem to get freshed a lot more and new pages get crawled right away. Since I don't have a new site, it's hard for me to make observations, so I'll move onto what I can tell from my site...

Older, larger "sites" seem to get "seeded" during the main crawl. Freshed pages from last time have all the pages they link out to dumped into the mix. If the destination page has a high enough PR and changes in some way between two or more hits by the freshbot, that page gets freshed. That seeding seems to spread during the main crawl as it's the only way I can see how that forum post keeps getting freshed - my fresh page linked to it and my forum has high enough PR to get in.

There also seems to be a frequency factor. High PR pages that are freshed seem to get rehit every day. Lower PR pages only get hit once every 3-5 days and the fresh tag will sometimes expire before the new freshcrawl hits (though the cache content remains intact).

SPECULATION: Once the main crawl is over, the fresh database will keep freshing those pages so long as something (and not much, mind you, but something) keeps changing every day. By this time though, the "what's fresh" database is either a) locked in - (i.e. it's looking for the updates on the pages, not for new pages - except for brand new sites) or b) they tighten up the restrictions pretty tightly and will only hit new pages that meet this more strict criteria. (Either one of these would explain nicely why my brand new content doesn't even get looked at).

I tend to favor the "locked in" theory a) above, as I only seem to hear about new pages getting freshed by new sites, not by established sites. Granted there isn't a lot of evidence, so that's why I am only about 53% certain. Either theory works for what I've observed and there's also likely another half dozen theories that might equally serve.

Oh well, having never had fresh pages before, having 6 that are always fresh, and another 30 that glide in and out of the listing, my traffic from google has increased about 40% this month with no appreciative difference in format, content style, PR, depth of crawl or anything else.

That, my friends, doesn't suck.



 12:12 pm on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

they just lowered the PR requirements because they have increased their fresh crawl capabilities

Grumpus, I think thats your best conclusion.

Also that newer links (once recognised during a major deep crawl/index) from your highest Pageranked pages get honoured with more frequent spidering/caching.

I for one can positively confirm that I get recurring Fresh stamps for pages that have not changed in content for at least a week.


 12:55 pm on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

one site of mine that i'm working on hard, has had the "fresh tag" for over a week and the index page has been freshed every couple of days (changes to page each time) my main competitor has a flash splash page (but benefits from heavyweight incoming links) has been getting the fresh tag in tandem with us.

new pages on this site have been appearing in the index in less than 24 hours.

have been working link exchanges and sites i've linked to have also been refreshed in the db to reflect their links back to me ...

although link: mysite is not showing the new linkbacks yet.


 12:55 pm on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

I used to get fresh tags ages ago - I think November last year, coincidentally when I first found WebmasterWorld. They stopped early this year for whatever reason, but I'm very glad to see them back again for many pages on my site.

Like you, Vitaplease, I've found some pages that hardly change at all, and which have the fresh tag. I've got quite a few dynamic pages in there as well, together with pages that do change often.


 2:06 pm on Sep 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

Topr8, I don't think linkbacks will show until the next or the following index - they only seem to get updated with the big boy GoogleBot crawls and updates that happen once a month at the moment.


 6:28 pm on Sep 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

We launched a new site on Monday, September 9, and as of last night, it was listed on Google already!

There is a link on the front page to another of my websites which gets crawled once a month and has a PR of 4. That's the only explanation I can think of.


 10:35 pm on Sep 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

We launched a new site on Monday, September 9, and as of last night, it was listed on Google already!
There is a link on the front page to another of my websites which gets crawled once a month and has a PR of 4. That's the only explanation I can think of.

I have had the same experience. I launched a site the other day, hoping it would get into the next crawl, and within days it was appearing in the top results for my keywords. It doesn't even have a page rank yet. But I have been linking to it from sites with a PR of 6 so this might help. I was always under the assumption that the dance was the time when completely new sites were added?


 11:40 pm on Sep 12, 2002 (gmt 0)

I thought the crawl on my PR4 site had already happened for September. Fortunately, it looks like I was mistaken.

As for the new site, there's still no telling how long it will take to get near the top of a keyword search. But it took me several months just to get into Google the first time, so I'm feeling optimistic about the potential of this new site. Too bad there will be no advertising on it!


 2:21 am on Sep 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hey Guys,

Yep, got those fresh tags and listings in the serp's from google on Tuesday and Wednesday with a site that I launched on Saturday ;-)

What I supprise to see referrals from google on a site that was not even up for a week. As mentioned those results are now dropping and I am settling down for a 5 - 6 week wait for the real deal.

The good news is that I have another site that will make the October dance coming up .... soon ;-)

I can see in the future maybe several years where there is no "fresh tag" but google spiders often and is able to update on the fly. Now that would be some thing.


Chef Brian


 2:46 am on Sep 13, 2002 (gmt 0)

Could it be pages viewed by visitors using the Google toolbar are indexed asap? Would be a novel approach to setting priorities, if you know what I mean.

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