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FAQ: Everflux - mid-month Google spidering and minor updates - Sept. 2002
The minor activity in between major Google updates
Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 5:52 am on Sep 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

There's one major Google update per month, which starts approximately the 20th to the 28th of each month and continues for several days. The new data migrates to the partner sites within several days.

See the Google Update History [webmasterworld.com] for details.

There is a major crawl at this time, with some reporting full crawls simultaeously with the start of the update or just prior, while others are not crawled until after the update is complete.

For several months there's been spidering of sites going on all month, even in between the major updates, but this only represents a small percentage of sites and while it may or may not affect ranking changes, it doesn't affect the entire index.

There was a lengthy discussion of what's been called The Everflux Effect early in July:

[webmasterworld.com...]

We've been having a lot of threads starting with questions about this all month long, which makes it hard to find all the relevant information related to it. Also, the volume of posts is making it harder to find other information relevant to Google.

Let's confine discussion of the mid-month spidering and minor update pattern to one thread, to help everyone find the information they need more easily.

 

Jack_Frost

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 4:21 am on Aug 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have a new site that we just loaded onto the web. The ODP editor for the category included it very quickly and we have submitted and been included in Yahoo and Looksmart. Today, we showed up on Google, but my PR is "Current Page is not ranked by Google".

Perhaps, I've never been as excited about launching a new site, but I have never seen this and wonder if we did something wrong in the design of the site...or if this is common and I just need to wait a couple days.

As always...Thanks

Beachboy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 4:28 am on Aug 30, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hello Jack, welcome to WebmasterWorld. :)

Be patient. It often takes Google a month or two to do the PageRank calculations once the site is finally picked up by Google.

brass monkey

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 7:43 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

Good to hear someone else experienced this same problem. The site was built to be fully optimized and targeted in some very strong search areas for our company. It was disappointing that we landed awesome rankings with Yahoo, but nothing with Google.

I launched a site a couple of weeks ago and just last week it was picked up by google. I am assuming that from this point it will take a couple of months for the PR calculation.

Nick_W

WebmasterWorld Senior Member nick_w us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 7:47 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

One of my sites is showing PR0 for all pages. Just included this time around.

From experience I've found that 2 updates is what is required to get your proper PR allocation and subsequent rank...

Nick

Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 8:16 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

Jack_Frost, what you're experiencing is a normal part of Google's mid-month activity. Sites are often added from ODP or Yahoo and like the other fluctuations, may appear and then temporarily disappear - so don't be alarmed, whatever happens.

In the case of sites already in the database, when there was an ODP update I saw one jump for a few days then go back to the previous position until the very next update.

What they pick up on a regular crawl is generally reflected the following update, other situations can vary.

dazz

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 8:22 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have just checked my site and the home page is PR6 as always and every other page is PR5 apart from 1 which is PR0 (White)! my site has been in the index for about 5 months but im worried about this 1 page that is linked to from every other page as its on the main list of pages down the left hand side of the site.......should i worry or is this a common problem?

Marcia

WebmasterWorld Senior Member marcia us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 8:36 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

dazz, one site I started working with has a bunch of old forgotten pages on the server. One is pagename2.htm and Google had it, with PR. A month prior it was changed so pagename1.htm has all links pointing to it, so pagename2.htm is essentially an orphan and 98% a duplicate.

pagename1.htm is now PR5 like the homepage and pagename2.htm is PR0 - it was apparently discounted, that's my guess. I'm not worried, but I do have to get in there and see what's hanging around to do some housecleaning/deletions of extraneous files.

I'm chalking that up to the possibility of a duplicate / orphan being detected in this case. Yours isn't an orphan, but just out of curiosity, is it almost identical to any other pages?

dazz

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 8:51 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

it could be that its a new page that i added at the middle of last month and but id have thought it would be a grey bar and not white, ive stickymailed you the address if you want a look.

WebRookie

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 9:21 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

RobPike, tell management that any listing you get for free takes more time, sometimes months, before the listings show up. My new site has a few pages listed after the first Google update, expecting the rest of the pages will show up next update.

Look for info in the forums to point them to, may help them understand in the meantime.

Btw, welcome to the forums. :)

egomaniac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 7:46 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

I am seeing some really wierd stuff today.

I have 3 domains in Google (1 regular domain, and two subdomains). I just searched to check my rankings, and 2 of the 3 are not showing up for their target keywords. I validated that they are in the database, as I can find them when using a more specific search. Both were showing up in the top 20 or higher for their keywords. Now they can't be found in the first 150 for these keywords. PR for both is still showing up as PR5 on the toolbar.

The SERPs seemed to be somewhat jumbled up too.

It gets wierder though.

I found a competitor's site at #50 in the SERP being displayed with the incorrect title, description, and page cache. The competitor's site is about "sales training", yet the title, description and page cache were for an online Meat Market selling chicken and cheese Bratwurst. I clicked through to the url, and sure enough it took me to the sales training site (sorry, no Bratwurst there!). This particular site is in ODP and the Google directory. The Google directory was listed correctly along with the incorrect title and description.

Anybody else seeing major ranking drops/disappearances or strange SERP description results?

seanetal

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 8:42 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

My pages have swapped as well, I'm back to where I was last month on about half my pages.

Sean

egomaniac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 9:38 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

My sites have reappeared now, and the 'sales training site'= Meat Market description swap is gone. The problem appears to have been corrected. I believe it was going on all morning though (California time) as traffic to my site was almost nonexistent this morning, but is back to normal now.

If anyone wants to see a screen shot of 'sales training site'= Meat Market description swap I referred to above then stickymail me.

egomaniac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 9:43 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

It appears that I spoke to soon.

My sites are popping in and out of the index. One minute they are there, then I search again, and they are gone (and the total search results count at top is a lower number).

Also the Meat Market sales training site description is back.

egomaniac

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 9:59 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

Has anyone noticed a cycling or rotation of different results inbetween updates?

I have noticed since the July update (approx July 24) that Google seems to be cycling the results through 2-3 different indices AFTER the update has stabilized. All during August I checked my rankings. Almost everytime I checked I would be in a different position, but it was always one of three specific positions with the top 20. I am seeing similar cycling so far since the August update.

This leads me to believe that they are cycling different versions of the index into the results to make the database appears more dynamic/less static.

johnser

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 11:00 pm on Sep 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

To anyone who linked a few sites together:

Were they appearing highly and are now greyed out/disappeared from SERPs? Check your IP Class C subnets........

If they're all the same, thats your problem.
J

Beachboy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 7:25 am on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have just now found two brand new sites added to Google, added in the last day or so. Good to excellent positioning for both, although toolbar is gray for both, no backward links showing yet. I think both were added at or about the same time. What do you folks think, twice a month (or more) updates now, with PR calculations at time of major monthly update?

coolshop

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 11:55 am on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

egomaniac, you said


Has anyone noticed a cycling or rotation of different results inbetween updates?
I have noticed since the July update (approx July 24) that Google seems to be cycling the results through 2-3 different indices AFTER the update has stabilized. All during August I checked my rankings. Almost everytime I checked I would be in a different position, but it was always one of three specific positions with the top 20. I am seeing similar cycling so far since the August update.

This leads me to believe that they are cycling different versions of the index into the results to make the database appears more dynamic/less static.

Yes, for my one main keyword, www2 and www3 I see constant rotation. I am mainly in #7 on www2 and www3 and #11 on www. www2 and www3 occasionally cycle onto www, but mostly not. This is frustrating because I don't understand why www2 and www3 never permanently reside on www for this keyword.

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 12:43 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

It seems that Google will 'freshen up' every 2-4 days. Right now I'm seeing the cached copy of CNN dated August 30th, 4 days old. It also appears that the 'fresh' tag cycles in for 24-48 hours and then goes away until the next time they 'freshen up'. Right now, there doesn't seem to be any 'fresh' tags in the index. I'm assuming that we are due for more 'fresh' pages today.

zeus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 1:24 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have had 3 different caches now, I have just seen the 3th one it is from sep.2, but I still have a PR0, but every time I get a new cache I show up in the search for my favorite keywords, but when the cache is gone again Im out.

zeus

RobPike

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 1:36 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

First off, thanks WebRookie...for the advice!

-----------------------------------------------------------------
johnser said

To anyone who linked a few sites together:
Were they appearing highly and are now greyed out/disappeared from SERPs? Check your IP Class C subnets........

If they're all the same, thats your problem
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Is there much truth to this? I do indeed have a couple of sites,
all linked together. As you might have seen from an earlier post on
this thread. They're all new sites. Were spidered by Googlebot, showed up high on a listing for its relevant keywords, had stayed on for a few days, but has since disappeared from the index. I've been
told this is a common phenomonon, and should sort itslef out with the next update (which i am fine with), however, they are all served from the same host. I do a ping and all four of em, even return the same IP, that as well puzzles me...but do you think the sites disappeared because they're new and they're just going through the processes before being added with the next update? or might they have disappeared because of the validity of the statement above?

thanks for your thoughts on this....

rfgdxm1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 1:42 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

>I'm assuming that we are due for more 'fresh' pages today.

Yep. I just got a fresh tag for the index.htm page of the main site an hour ago. And, I just changed it about 3 hours ago basically for aesthetics, so it'll probably change again at Google in a few days.

dvduval

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 1:53 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Fresh tags of Sep 2 and Sep 3 now appearing within the last thirty minutes throughout Google. It's another 'fresh' update.

zeus

WebmasterWorld Senior Member zeus us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 2:01 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

I dont think we will see those new caches for long maybe a few days, that was what happen to me the last 3 times.

zeus

johnser

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 2:03 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

RobPike

I know of 20 sites all x-linked on separate domains. #1&2 for extremely competitive terms over a very long period. Now #437&438 (give or take)

No spam, no "above-the-radar" tricks used. But all showing same class C block. All dumped. The sites are very well established so its not because they're new.
J


rfgdxm1

WebmasterWorld Senior Member rfgdxm1 us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 2:07 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Well, Googlebot grabbed that index.htm page of mine 30 minutes after I changed it, so I'm curious how long it will take to get a new fresh tag?

RobPike

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 2:22 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

johnser

thanks for replying. My sites are all hosted with one of those cheaper host providers. Having pinged each of the four, i realised they come back with the same IP. They're clean, no "above the radar" tricks. Do you think the same fate may await me? I know also, that Google doesn't list more than two pages from the same domain when a search is performed. Though all my sites have the same IP they have different domain names...does it look at the domain name or the IP when determining which two it'll throw up on the list.

Also, if you would kindly read my first post on this thread, in your opinion, was my site (being brand new, and spidered for the first time) 'temporarily' removed until the next update? or do i need to worry,they being on the same IP.

Also, what do you think i should do....get a new host? if i do, would google easily find me on my new IP?

thanks again

johnser

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 2:47 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Check out what GoogleGuy said here: [webmasterworld.com...]

I think this has changed but if I'm way off-mark, someone please let me know.

RobPike, if I were you, I'd use a different class C for each domain and leave everything else alone & see what happens.

I don't know if G shows IP or domain. Domain is far more likely I'd have thought.
J

RobPike

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 4:40 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

yet another question guys...i am quite new, so do forgive my ignorance.
If i switch host providers, and obtain a new IP. Would i suffer a set back in google finding my new IP? would it follow a redirect? would it penalise for this (re directing that is)? Would i set back yet another month in my attempt to be listed? should i just take the risk of hosting my domians on the same IP?

johnser

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 5:27 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

If you change to a different host, and get a different IP PER domain then G will just index you as normal. If you're not tripping any filters at that point, then I can't see why you wouldn't be back in immediately on the next update.

If you were to use a meta or javascript redirect, G will index the page the redirect is pointing to. Best to use a 301 server-side redirect though to avoid any penalties here.
J

Ambiorix

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 6:45 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hi all, I'm new and from Belgium. Grtz to all who make up this forum!

Oké, this is my situation same as RobPike.
I have 3 highly optimized dutch spoken portals. Site A is my main site, site B is a help portal build on php with Mysql, and site C is BRAND new and is a portal about search engines en especially Google.

Now:
1) Site C (new one) has had the Googlefriend visit on 27 and 28/08 only 2 day after submitting it (me off course very happy :-)

2) Almost each day the last 4 days my sites have had the visit of the bot.

3) My brandnew site which was highly positioned after the primar index is dropped... no where to be seen in the index.

4) Site C and B are both on the same IP adres but alas, to make thing difficult. My hoster changed the servers IP adres,... this weekend.
So IP 1 and new IP2 are both pointing to site C and B.

My question:
1) Same IP address: I've read GoogleGuy's response but it's dated from 2001. As I understand this is a misty affair?

2) The brand new site is havilly concentrated on Google and SEO. I use a php CRM package to maintain the site. Could it be possible that the Google algo 'weights' the number of times the word Google is found on a site. Because if so I'm cooked...
Please mail me and I'll post the URL of site C....

I'll grab an aspirine and wait a couple of days but I hope I didn't get banned. Would not be a master marketing idea: SEO's site banned from Google... Tsss I wouldn't want to dream about it :-)

grtz

Ambiorix

ps sorry for my bad english

MikeMike

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 5196 posted 7:28 pm on Sep 4, 2002 (gmt 0)

Well this is a nice "minor update" for me.
In my search on www I get about 5,900,000 results with my site as #40+. In www3 I get 5,200,000 results and my site is #7.
I have been deep crawled yesterday and today, so to me this looks like a regular update.

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