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This 327 message thread spans 11 pages: < < 327 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 11 > >     
August 2002 Google Update!
Nick_W

WebmasterWorld Senior Member nick_w us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 9:24 am on Aug 21, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm getting different link counts for WebmasterWorld on all three servers....

Note to mods: Please, delete if I'm wrong, I hate it when people cry wolf but I was always told the link counts were the way to tell....

Nick

 

webman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 9:42 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

I verified with a friend of mine in Florida (I'm in San Francisco) that he sees different results on www than I. I didn't verify this just now, but yesterday. I assume that www is different around the globe until the dance is over.

carpaltunnel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 10:05 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have seen Google's "Dance" and algorythms do some strange things over the past 3 years but recently they have really taken a turn for the worst! I've seen the comments in this thread comparing the current results to Inktomi's old results in AOL and I absolutely agree. I also have a lot of keyword-domain-keyword sites that were doing excellent until recently but my domains and sites are clean, on topic and contain no pop-ups, redirects or other junk that a lot of these current sites are producing. So why am I not finding a good 90% of my sites anymore?

Let's us all hope and pray that Google finds a happy medium and stops Waffling back and forth between what appears to be a decent algorythm and a "Test" algorythm. I can't imagine that AOL moved away from Inktomi just to end up with similar, irrelevant, lousy search results that have seen popping up on Google recently.

I have faith in Google.........to bad it has to be a blind one.

ikbenhet1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 10:15 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)


maybe you did something wrong, caus my keyword-keyword domain is listed on #1 in www2, thank u

bobmark

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 10:26 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

The www3, www2, www thing is so weird as I get only the old index results on www compared to 2 or 3 and it has never changed (I'm in central Canada and I mean on Google.com not Google.ca).

cminblues

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 10:39 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm in the exactly same boat as 'carpaltunnel'.

I've a lot of keyword-domain-keyword sites, but all clean, no pop-ups, no redirects, no javascript/activeX exploiting IE, no at all any links-exchange stuff, all well ranked until 4 days ago.

Now, I have 90% of my sites greyed, and all that I see now is, for 'my' keyws, a lot of crappy-popupped-redirecting-withoutcontent sites.

I wish only know why this happened, what is the Google goal on this.

carpaltunnel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 10:58 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

"cminblues"

Exactly! What is Googles goal with this? I can only hope that they are actually examining these results and reading all the feedback they get. Granted they are obviously getting good feedback from everyone that is ranking who cares to make comments to Google, but are negative feedbacks outweighing the good ones? I still think this is some sort of testing-phase that Google is working through.

Googles CEO stated in an interview earlier this year that Google was working towards updating and indexing on a weekly if not eventually a daily basis. I don't think they are going to get to that point without some serious testing and run thru's of their spidering, crawling and indexing.

For anyone interested in reading up on the inner workings of Google here is a link to their original paper on "The Anatomy of a Large-Scale Hypertextual Web Search Engine - Sergey Brin and Lawrence Page" from Stanford Univ. [www-db.stanford.edu...]

It is a interesting read, albeit very technical at times. The basics are all there but obviously the scale and refinements done to this original model have greatly increased. Have fun.

bobmark

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 11:29 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Clearly there a are huge variations in the www3 results by keyword, category, whatever (I have my fingers crossed while touching wood that mine will migrate to www). When I look at my www3 keyword searches, the results look much better; I picked up dramatically on generalized keywords that I want to do well on (e.g. if it was a Canadian canine site I would have picked up on "Canada Dog" jumping over ItalyDog.com's single "Canada" page.
On www3, I have lost a bit of ground on niche keywords, but the sites ahead of me all have greater relevance (e.g. if I was previously #2 on searches of "Dog Dalmation" I have been pushed down to #4 by DalmationsRus.com and allaboutDalmations.com so I really have to say from my analysis, the www3 results I see are probably more objective.
So the problem is to figure out what is common across categories to explain the wildly differing perceptions.

AAnnAArchy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 11:51 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

webman
I verified with a friend of mine in Florida (I'm in San Francisco) that he sees different results on www than I.

My partner gets different results than I do...and she's merely in another room in the house. On one computer our site is on page 5 and on another, page 6. We're both using the Google toolbar for our searches.

AAnn

carpaltunnel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 11:59 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

"AAnnAArchy" (I like your name by the way ;) )

Yup, my partner in the same office sees different results as well and we are both the only users on our T-1! It's the Google "Dance" It will all balance out in a day or so.

bobmark

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 11:59 pm on Aug 23, 2002 (gmt 0)

Different ISP's AAnn?

Knowles

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 1:08 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I hope its over, cause I show a site right now with over a 200 spot jump!

c1bernaught

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 1:13 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)


I'm showing PR0 for EVERY ONE of my sites! I had some really good ranking last index and mostly PR3's & 4's. I've got no spam, no links to questionable sites... nothing. Why? Why does it appear that I've been penalyzed. This is crazy! Is it possible that google doesn't like the commercial hosting company that I use?

Bummed!

AAnnAArchy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 1:54 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

bobmark
Different ISP's AAnn?

Same ISP and same IP even. I think she thought I was nuts when I kept saying, "No, we're the third site on the fifth page." Her search
showed us on the sixth page, somewhere in the middle of the page. Of course, neither one of those results makes us happy. Until last month we had three sites on the first page. We'd been sitting pretty (and complacent, I guess) for at least six months like that. Last month our top site ended up on the 13th page and the others essentially disappeared. We've been working very hard and diversifying since then. We have high hopes for next month. :)

AAnn

drew22

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 5:07 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

cminblues,

I have 10 keyword-domain-sites and they are all ranked very high in this update. 8 out of 10 are in the #1 position for their respective target keywords. (i'm mentioning this because I'm ecstatic, not to gloat) I don't think Google is penalizing keyword domains.

What I have noticed is that keyword density seems to be playing a huge role this time.

martinibuster

WebmasterWorld Administrator martinibuster us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 6:02 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Um... Hello?

The database needs to settle down before we get Woody Allen about our position stats, okay?...

It takes like 7-10 days until we have to worry.

So until www2 and 3 is the same as the regular Google database, you just have to:

1: Settle down.
2: Focus.

and when the database is settled:

3: Figure out what you did wrong and catch up.

(unless you already know what you're doing, heh-heh)

johnniebry

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 6:29 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Does anybody know the urls to all 5 Google datacenters. I know www, www2, and www3. Theres a site i go to that checks all 5 datacenters so you know when the dance has started, but it just shows backwards links for all 5 data centers. I'm trying to find out the other 2 urls so i can see about new pages being added. Thanks

mack

WebmasterWorld Administrator mack us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 6:31 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

he sees different results on www than I....

This happens a lot. The results are starting to filter from www2 and www3 to www but it doesn't happen right away. one computer on www might have the new resuls and one might still have the old results. it takes a while for the new data to be flushed through all the computers that serve the www results.

mack

WebmasterWorld Administrator mack us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 6:34 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Does anybody know the urls to all 5 Google datacenters.

www1, 2, 3 and the ones that are happy for us to know about. The other ones are a bit of a Google secret. Dont really thing we want to be going and posting private URL's into the heart of google.

cminblues

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 6:54 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

--------------------------------------------------
Thanks 'carpaltunnel' for the link:
[www-db.stanford.edu ]
(this is THE very deep, technical and complete,
document about Google's birth)
--------------------------------------------------

Ok, GoogleGuys.
As I see, you have ignited some new filter/algos.
[Or maybe is a database-glitch on some yours '*BSD ApacheSimilar/1.3.2n' machines..
Hehe, just kidding.]

The goal seems:
-----------------------------------------------------
There are some companies making money with our s.engine.
This is not good, we'll not be owned.
Let's drop them.

-----------------------------------------------------


But, the big question is:
-----------------------------------------------------
If it's true that
The most important measure of a search engine
is the quality of its search results.
(from the above link)
then, why Google-brain thinks that dropping tons of
really rich-content sites is an effective way to do this?
-----------------------------------------------------


The answer, maybe, is:
-----------------------------------------------------
We don't want a bunch of good sites.
We want the clicking-users may see ALL the sites,
good or not.

-----------------------------------------------------



But, here it comes the 'revenues':
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
1] The 'A' company, 2 years ago, start
google-optimizing its sites [-> making rich-content pages/links],
thinking that Google is a true s.engine, so
the market will follow him.

1a] The 'B' company try to buy some banner/queries
at Google, maybe like old 'OpenText',
which was reported to be selling companies the right
to be listed at the top of the search results for particular queries
(from the above link)
Nothing to do.
And, "too much clean", the 'B' company thinks,
the little "sponsored link" bought.
(Ok I don't remember exactly if the "sponsored link"
stuff were active at Google 2 years ago..)

2] The 'A' company starts getting valuable traffic from Google.
At 'A' company, people say:
Wonderful!
Now we'll make good sites, a lot of good sites,
and we're sure that Google rank us high.
Ohh, beatiful.
Let's not spend money in advertising, let's spend money in making
good/rich-content sites.
Ah, and let's go away all boring pop-up/redirect/IE-exploiting
things from us sites.
We know Google don't penalize them, but
if Google rank us so high, it's logical to continue giving
clean and good contents, thinking in a "long-distance" way.
Ah, and let's make also cloaking, why not, we're pissed off
by competitors stealing all of us work.



3] After 2 years, the 'A' company founder wake up,
and see that 90% of sites are dropped in
Google www www2 www3.
"Ok", I think.
Google now know that all our sites are our sites.
And dropped them.
What we can make, now ?

  • We'll spend money into making lot of sites not at all 'arguable' as ours.
  • We don't care a lot of the quality of the upcoming sites,
    because of the money expense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Now I think I'll going down, take a coffe, a fish-chips and some beers, another coffe, and start to decode the famous PR search?client=navclient-auto&ch=nnnnnnnnnnn.

This done, it's so crap to make a perl script [proxy-using updated real-time eh..].
Ackk nooo, a daemon owned me.. I'll don't make nothing like this at all..
But I've so little time watching/admin servers now..

Ok stop kidding, it's no time.

Nice days and congratulations, anyway and sincerely, to all
you, well-ranked girls/guys.

c1bernaught

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 10:42 pm on Aug 22, 2002 (gmt 0)


I don't understand what's going on. I know the google dance is confusing, but come on!

I had a site taken out of the index last month. I think I had a link to "bad neighborhood" (that's a whole story in itself), anyway It reappeared in www a few days ago with good PR and was highly listed. It's been in and out of www but has not surfaced in www2 or www3. What does that mean? O.K., maybe it'll be back next index. I hope so.

However, I have several other sites in the index that I can only find in www2 & 3 if I search specifically for them. If I search for keywords for these sites .... nothing, I mean nothing all the way to 1000 listings! I don't understand, I was just on page 1 with some of these keywords! Now, I have worked very hard to make sure that no spam exists on my sites. I have no links that could even remotely be viewed being to bad neighborhoods and I have plenty of content. These same sites have been bouncing like mad on www but have not surfaced on www2 or 3 (IN THE LISTINGS) at all! We're talking about 6 seperate sites!

What gives? Can anyone shed some light on what's going on? This is very perplexing.

brotherhood of LAN

WebmasterWorld Administrator brotherhood_of_lan us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 10:54 pm on Aug 22, 2002 (gmt 0)

hello c1bernaught,

Is the site new? Try not to worry either way, strange things happen during the update.

Here's me thinking I acquired a number 1 spot...then out of nowhere, I'm down to 3...with sites ranking above coming out of the blue.

If the site is new this is commonplace during an update.....you can be at ease after another update.

bluemi

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 12:17 pm on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

The toolbar is funny. If I search on www3 for your domain name and then directly click on the result I get your site with PR3. If I right-click and open it in a new window it has PR0. Weird...

GodLikeLotus

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 12:54 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Results all look the same from here, London

martin

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 2:20 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

It isn't for me.

brotherhood of LAN

WebmasterWorld Administrator brotherhood_of_lan us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 2:24 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'm getting "different results" than that of pre-update and update....400 odd miles north of London ;)

Same SERP's as a while before the update.

Best just hold your breath a little longer ;)

martin

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 2:27 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Btw what is first www2 or www3? Are there any more?

Helpmebe1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 2:28 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

she is defintely still dancing... my PR is jumping all over the place on two thousand of my pages... strap yourself in.. shes still rumbling.. for the better!

Helpmebe1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 2:29 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

martin..thats it..just.. www, www2 and www3...at this point

martin

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 2:33 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks Helpmebe1, but is there any particular order - which is updated first www2 or www3?

Helpmebe1

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 2:52 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Martin,
I am not sure.. I dont think anyone knows except maybe googleguy and his coworkers.. if anyone should know, please let us both know but I dont think anyone really does...

uk.google.yahoo.com is a good place to look at results though.. I think that they may have the finished result as where we dont yet

twebdonny



 
Msg#: 4925 posted 3:43 am on Aug 24, 2002 (gmt 0)

Still dancing for us...

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