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Importance of Yahoo and Looksmart to PR
Is PR of the category the only thing that matters?
mhkatz




msg:142194
 4:05 pm on Jul 27, 2002 (gmt 0)

I have been advised that being listed in Yahoo, Looksmart, and DMOZ are by far the most important factors influencing a site's rank in Google. I have followed that advice and gotten listed in all three.

I have noticed that Google only shows the incoming link from DMOZ, but not Yahoo or Looksmart. I have looked at the PR of each directory listing and found the DMOZ category page has PR=5, the Yahoo catogory page has PR=3, and the Looksmart page has PR=1. Google appears to only be showing incoming links from pages with PR=4 or greater.

Does the above mean that the Yahoo and Looksmart listings are not really important to my site's Google ranking? Also, is an DMOZ lising in a PR=5 category any more significant than any other incoming link with equal PR?

 

ciml




msg:142224
 12:38 pm on Jul 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

> So why all this confusion with directories?

Many sites have most of their PageRank from outside into the home page, which tends to be at the root of the domain. This flows down via links, which tend to follow the URL structure to some extent.

Also, the Toolbar confused people by using URLs for its PageRank 'guess' for URLs that aren't in the index.

George




msg:142225
 1:58 pm on Jul 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

Thanks ciml.

dcallan




msg:142226
 6:55 pm on Jul 31, 2002 (gmt 0)

I notice on [looksmart.com...]
that a wildcard is used. This would prevent all
engines including the googlebot. But the disallow has nothing.
Does this mean looksmart wont help google pr one bit. Or am
I wrong about the format of this url.

snark




msg:142227
 12:20 am on Aug 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

I recently submitted a site to DMOZ in the evening, and by the next morning, it was listed. Another site of mine, I never submitted, but it's well listed. What the heck.

I have a stupid question. Where does one determine the PR for a page/site?

Thanks!,
Snark

Brett_Tabke




msg:142228
 12:52 am on Aug 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

Looksmart allows ALL spiders:
User-agent: * 
Disallow:

From the standard:


Disallow:
Any empty value, indicates that all URLs can be retrieved. At least one Disallow field needs to be present in a record.

Grumpus




msg:142229
 4:53 pm on Aug 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

This is the first time I have heard of the ? being not only OK, but having a superb PR,
and not being buried. Do you think that perhaps it is not the ?, but the "on page" set
up of databases that gets poor results for people? IE, a database page will tend to
have the same meta title, description and keywords (if any at all), because it it too
much trouble to set it up differently? It is something I have suspected for a
long time.

I am still not convinced that directory depth drops a PR. I might not be understanding
you correctly Grumpus, but could it not be linking that makes the difference still?

As far as directory depth, on the "Guessed" PR, that is, in fact, the case. Every / is -1 PR from the homepage. The curious thing on my site is that some pages simply MUST have a real pagerank, yet they differ none from those that are guessed.

As far as meta tags go, I've got a general site description, but on my key pages, the meta tags (description and keywords) get the subject of the page added to the beginning. (I.e. if it's a page on "Star Wars" then "Star Wars" is added to the beginning of the tags.) Seems to help somewhat.

G.

taxpod




msg:142230
 5:33 pm on Aug 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

Not sure I see why a database driven page can't have different title and meta tags based upon one of the variables.

I agree that the levels down (//////) matters for guessed PR but I can say that I definitely have deeper pages in the directory structure that have higher PR.

I see where I was mistaken about understanding that Looksmart basically disallows nothing to spiders. But can someone explain why when I go to a lot of Looksmart categories, the PR is greyed out? Or why when I search keywords I know to be in numerous places in the directory I get -0- results in Google? Also, why the cached snapshots differ so greatly from the actual pages

Searching "looksmart site:looksmart.com" yields 6,500 hits but that's not very many. By comparison, searching "dmoz site:dmoz.org" yields 304,000 hits!

muesli




msg:142231
 6:14 pm on Aug 1, 2002 (gmt 0)

hello,

comment of a new member who sometimes gets confused by many of the sometimes strange PR-explanation-attempts out there:

i can't understand why theories such as "level down, less PR" can survive serious discussion in such a discussion board. as i see it it's called "page rank" after all and not "site rank" or something. the PR algorithm evaluates "votes" for a page by other pages within their context. not less, not more.

i don't see site structure or anything else influence pagerank. (i admit that i might be sticking too much on the theory instead of watching what G and its bot do with my site over long periods.)

there just seem to be many "esoteric" explanations for pagerank and how the bot behaves, also on these boards.

muesli

[edited by: ciml at 6:48 pm (utc) on Aug. 1, 2002]
[edit reason] URL snipped [/edit]

Grumpus




msg:142232
 2:32 pm on Aug 2, 2002 (gmt 0)

i don't see site structure or anything else influence pagerank.

On "guessed" page rank, I suppose Google just figures that the deeper it is, the less likely someone is to link to it. It's not "supposed" to be true for "real" pagerank, I'm just having trouble coming to other conclusions based on the findings at the various sites I maintain. I suppose it's more a matter if knowing what is "real" and what's being "guessed", though I can guess which ones should have real PR and which ones should be guessed. Technically, though, any page that's in the index should have a REAL PR, no?

Not sure I see why a database driven page can't have different title and meta tags based upon one of the variables.

It can, and I just haven't gone nuts doing it except for what I consider to be "key" entry points for my site.

But can someone explain why when I go to a lot of Looksmart categories, the PR is greyed out?

Sure. The looksmart directory is dynamic, so Google limits the number of pages it'll index. The looksmart directory structure is tough to cipher, too, so it probably has a tough time "guessing" in many categories.

G.

muesli




msg:142233
 4:11 pm on Aug 2, 2002 (gmt 0)

grumpus,

Technically, though, any page that's in the index should have a REAL PR, no?

that's the point, dynamic pages don't. see [webmasterworld.com ] for my arguments on this.

however i totally agree that "level down, less PR" is probably how toolbar-PR is guessed. but real PR? sure not.

muesli

bigjohnt




msg:142234
 2:08 am on Aug 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

as i see it it's called "page rank" after all and not "site rank" or something.

Actually, it was named after Google's co-founder Larry Page.

Beachboy




msg:142235
 4:14 am on Aug 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

It would have been less confusing to name it: LarryRank. ;)

muesli




msg:142236
 12:46 pm on Aug 3, 2002 (gmt 0)

as i see it it's called "page rank" after all and not "site rank" or something.

Actually, it was named after Google's co-founder Larry Page.

i know but if it had been to rank sites not pages it would have probably been called brin rank (after sergey brin) or sth else. what i wanted to say: google gives a damn **** about sites, its all about pages regardless of where they belong. at least i believe so (and thats what the original PR formula suggests).

Lorel




msg:142237
 4:41 am on Aug 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

Re getting listed in DMOZ I make it a point to design my sites so DMOZ will accept them because they feed data to so many other engines and are buying up more constantly.

And I have had pretty good success getting listed in there. It usually takes 2 weeks for my sites to be examined by the editors of DMOZ and shortly thereafter Google picks up my site, and then generally most of my hits come from Google. Most of those pages rank #1 or at least on first page for their main keywords on Google.

I can't access the page rank tool bar on Google because I use a Mac but I did check it on a friends computer last week and most of my sites rank at PR 5 (without links to Looksmart or Yahoo).

I am a struggling webmaster and have never paid for listings anywhere and most of my clients can't afford paid listings either so I try to research how to get in the back door of these pay only sites.

Re getting into DMOZ I believe it is the quality of my design--very simple, basic and easy to maneuver, i.e., no flash, dynamic pages or fancy wingdings. In fact I removed the JS rollovers from my menu on one site and hits quadrupled within the week and have been steadily growing ever since.

I'm learning what works best with every site I design. The last site I finished was linked to Google and Overture within 10 days and I never listed it on Overture. DMOZ hasn't viewed it yet.

Also Looksmart picked up one of my sites this last month and Yahoo another and I've never paid for listings thru those sites--although I did list one on the Wisenut site before it was bought by Looksmart and used the Asia Yahoo site which may be why the Yahoo listing showed up.

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