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Strange Dancing Type Effect
Results are Changing at Google
Grumpus




msg:155079
 4:16 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

I realize that there are slight fluctuations at Google throughout the month without there being a dance going on, but I'm seeing some pretty wierd things.

Firstly, on common search terms, there are sites bouning in and out of the first page of results.

Looking further, when I type my domain, one second it might say what you'd expect it to, and the next it'll say something to the effect that "There's no information available about this site." This only lasts for several minutes, but then it'll be gone again.

Anyone else seeing anything weird?

G.

 

The Contractor




msg:155080
 4:36 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

It is a new site to Google, right?
Nothings happening that I can see and if you have a newer site this is natural.

WebGuerrilla




msg:155081
 4:47 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

I think the type of post-dance stability that Google has shown in the past no longer exists, and I don't think it's ever going to go back to the way it used to be.

I have a site I watch that competes in a very competitive space. In the past, during the updates, w2 and w3 would always preview what things would look like the following month. There would be a little bouncing around during the update, but after it was finished, the results did not budge at all until the following update.

That has been Google's pattern for as long as I can remember, but this month it change dramatically. The update may be over, but the results are in constant flux. Right now, we're #5 on 1, completely missing in 2, and #3 in 3. Throughout the day, those results rotate constantly. Yesterday, they would rotate in and out of w1 every fourth refresh. Sometimes we have a date stamp, sometimes we don't.

Another new twist is that I noticed brand new content (on a new domain name) that was spidered in the middle of the month was added to the database instantly. A day after the full crawl, I could find every page in the database. The pages didn't show up for any searches because their PR had not yet been calculated, but they were in the database.

That same site has also been crawled every day since I put it up on the 12th of May. There was no pause during the dance.

After having seen all this, If I didn't know any better, I'd think the update is still going on. But the reality is that for some sites, results are going to bounce around from day-to-day, if for no other reason, to make Gogole appear fresher.

The Contractor




msg:155082
 4:55 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

WG,

That is a interesting post. Do you think that it could be Googles algo being changed and/or tested that causes this fluctuation?

brotherhood of LAN




msg:155083
 5:00 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

I'd be inclined to agree with WG, ive seen my SERP's alternate between two positions, something I've not seen before.

I hate to jump the gun, but its like something "new" has arrived

Grumpus




msg:155084
 5:41 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

It is a new site to Google, right?

Not really new. First got indexed 3 months ago and has been showing up in searches for 2 months/updates.

I'm going to agree with the rest of the gang here - something "new" is happening. That's why I described it as a "Dance Type Effect" and not a dance itself. ;)

My site is still appearing and dissapearing when I type the full domain. Kinda interesting. Another, possibly related note, is that the bot seems to have gotten finished with its crawl earlier this morning. (only about 5K pages is my best guess - last month was about 25K) I'm not seeing any cache updates, though - not even in the "odd" results.

Will keep you posted, as I am the only one so far that's seeing the whole domain vanish right now.

G.

gatitonegrito




msg:155085
 6:05 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

I totally agree that results are not stable...getting different results from different servers all the time.

For some reason, the most up to date information (and most favorable results) appear in google congo (www.google.cd).

Has anybody else noticed that google congo has dramatically different and more complete results than other google sites??

What does it all mean??

WebOpt




msg:155086
 9:02 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hello All...I noticed that Google is doing something very different right now...I am not too sure yet, but I will figure it out...If it is what I thin it is..It will be good for all of us!!!

brotherhood of LAN




msg:155087
 9:16 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

webopt, since we seem to be a small crowd agreeing, maybe you would like to say more

welcome to WMW

Axacta




msg:155088
 10:20 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

WebOpt,

Welcome to WW. Come on! Don't leave us guessing - what have you got?

discod




msg:155089
 10:50 pm on Jun 7, 2002 (gmt 0)

I couldn't agree more...there is something that has changed.

My Theory
It's very early, but I think Google may be applying some algorithm concepts that are used in AdWords.

If a site has the highest PageRank (or popularity?) it is more likely to appear in the #1 position. However, it may rotate to other nearby positions.

If a site is ,let's say #3 most of the time, it may occasionally change to #4 or #2.

Watching W2 and W3 for a few days has led me to believe this. But as I said...it is early.

Anybody agree/disagree?

The Contractor




msg:155090
 1:05 am on Jun 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

I still say it's Google testing new algo ;)

I have seen some things change on ww3 and go right back an hour later.

Beachboy




msg:155091
 4:45 am on Jun 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

Well, the high ranking sites I have to track have been stable in their positions, nothing has been dropping down a few positions at all. Strange, huh?

Robert Charlton




msg:155092
 7:08 am on Jun 8, 2002 (gmt 0)

I've also noticed the fluctuation in a competitive search area I've been monitoring. At first I thought that Google was rotating results... but I'm seeing something else too. When our search position changes, the size of the database changes also. We've been bouncing back and forth between #5 and #7... and sometimes www, www2, and www3 have been in sync, and sometimes they haven't.

In the past I've thought results have settled, and a few days later have been surprised by a slight aftershock where results shift, as though they've dialed in another factor. So by now I expect the shift... only I'm surprised that it keeps happening, and that it shifts back and forth. It does feel like the update is still going on... or, to paraphrase Bob Dylan, that something else is happening and I don't know what it is.

WebOpt




msg:155093
 4:23 am on Jun 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

Hello again,
It is not that I want to keep you guys inthe dark. It is just that I don'T want to make a statement and then be wrong. I have been around this Forum for some time and a lot of poeple post stuff that is way off. They don't test their ideas before posting. I did another test and it worked again.

I will say this now. Look at the bot...it is different... GG said in the Google forum that the bot is new software. If it is what i think it is, it will be great for Google!!!

brotherhood of LAN




msg:155094
 1:55 pm on Jun 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

>if it is what I think it is.

well, you shouldn't post that if you are not sure ;) I am going to put it down to the "usual reasons" for now.

Not seen enough action to substantiate any major change :)

rgb




msg:155095
 3:46 pm on Jun 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

I noticed yesterday when I was searching on Google that when I clicked one particular first ranked result and I went to the site it was grayed out on the toolbar. When I went back to the site a while later and it had a PR4.

So I guess this confirms that it is still a little unsettled.

Axacta




msg:155096
 3:51 pm on Jun 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

That very well could be a burp in the Google toolbar. I've brought up my own site and had a blank PR bar, and then refreshed, and the PR is back to normal.

rgb




msg:155097
 4:06 pm on Jun 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

could be a burp in the Google toolbar

And it didn't even say "excuse me" .. How rude! :)


europeforvisitors




msg:155098
 7:16 pm on Jun 9, 2002 (gmt 0)

For my main keyphrase, I gradually went up from #10 to #7 during the past week, but today I'm down to #15. Very odd.

Chef_Brian




msg:155099
 12:12 am on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Yes yes,

This chef has been noticing several little changes. This is rather intresting, I have been optimizing my home page (pagerank 6) for one particular two word key phrase that is somewhat competative. I have ranked about 40th or something and today all of the sudden I was ranked #6 or 7 for about 5 minutes or so. I also ranked #3 for the most competative key word phrase in my theme.... then I was off the front page.

Strange.

Chef Brian

feeder




msg:155100
 12:50 am on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Have also noticed the results aren't stable.

SERPS appear to be alternating between off topic rubbish and on-topic relevancy for a few of the terms I'm following.

Agree with brotherhood_of_lan - business as usual until "proved" otherwise :)


wax




msg:155101
 8:04 pm on Jun 10, 2002 (gmt 0)

Even more frustrating for a new site. I have a brand new site, launched three weeks ago. The site appeared for domain only (PR1) in about a week, then gone for three days and reappeared with a PR of 3 for a week then gone again. Should be in DMOZ in a week or so and I am hoping this will help stabilize the listing.

24bit




msg:155102
 4:45 am on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

On the last update, I only had about 30 pages indexed on my site. I recently got it up to 120, and the updated crawl got about 75 of them indexed. Well, yesterday I checked and it was down to 62, then today 30. So they indexed my new stuff and took it back off. It will no doubt show up for the next dance or maybe even sooner.

Here's a cool tool to use if any of you don't know it. If you register to have a Google search tool put on your site, the login page to modify your search parameters will tell you how many pages are currently indexed exactly at that moment you login. Kind of a cool thing to check.

rfgdxm1




msg:155103
 5:43 am on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

>Here's a cool tool to use if any of you don't know it. If you register to have a Google search tool put on your site, the login page to modify your search parameters will tell you how many pages are currently indexed exactly at that moment you login. Kind of a cool thing to check.

I just did. Google can't count:

There are approximately 257 pages for (my domain here) in our index.

Odd, as my site has about 10 pages. ;)

rfgdxm1




msg:155104
 5:52 am on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

CORRECTION: I just noticed a weird entry in my site log files of someone coming from Google. Google indexed my site's bulletin board. Thus, there may well be 257 pages of my site in Google.

world end soon




msg:155105
 6:51 pm on Jun 11, 2002 (gmt 0)

The weirdest thing of all?

If you have the google toolbar installed, you get different results than if you have it uninstalled. Creepy!

Even stranger? It doesn't matter if you search from the toolbar or if you search from the google URL. The result is always the same, so long as the toolbar is installed.

The only way to get the different result is to uninstall the toolbar (or search from another computer of course!)

What funny plans does Google have for us now? Perhaps they're watching what we do with the toolbar? Wouldn't it be easy to catch a SEO expert by scanning which keywords he searches for, and then checking which "cached" results he is checking? It sure beats trawling the results with some fancy algorithm. This is entrapment!

Check this out from the google toolbar privacy statement:

"Google may collect information about web pages that you are viewing when the advanced functionality is enabled. However, this advanced functionality is optional, and can be easily disabled and re-enabled at any time (by selecting "Privacy Information..." in the Toolbar's "Google" menu.)....."

rsomers




msg:155106
 5:55 am on Jun 29, 2002 (gmt 0)

I disagree with that.. if the bot was new, it wouldn't still report as "Googlebot/2.1".

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