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site map on every page
mzadorian




msg:183054
 10:41 am on Dec 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Is it bad to have a 100 links on the bottom of every page? The 100 links go to our different category pages.

 

webnewton




msg:183055
 11:52 am on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Not advisable! Have a seprate page to present the site map and you can put this link on every page.

mars9820




msg:183056
 4:06 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

most people have a menu on their page (and some repeat this at the bottom of the page as well).

This is very common. Every page linked from every page is not advisable and I think also annoying for users.

However I think it is good to link on every page to "products" "services" "about us" "contact us" "sitemap" and so forth.

petehall




msg:183057
 4:13 pm on Dec 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't have more than 100 links on any page, never mind them all.

Giga1




msg:183058
 8:14 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I completely disagree, and this strategy has definatly helped us to domainate the lesser targeted terms and to index our site faster. Never had a problem and prove us wrong. Posters are advising from speculation not from actual practice.

Powdork




msg:183059
 8:32 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I wouldn't have more than 100 links on any page, never mind them all.
Why not? If you can do it so your users can still navigate easily. My site map (which is only on one page but is linked to from every page) has over 200 links in this format.

My Region Keyword 1 [webmasterworld.com]

  • subkeyword1 a [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery [webmasterworld.com])
  • subkeyword1 b [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery [webmasterworld.com])
  • subkeyword1 c [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery [webmasterworld.com])
  • subkeyword1 d [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery 1 [webmasterworld.com] Photo Gallery 2 [webmasterworld.com])

    My Region Keyword 2 [webmasterworld.com]

  • subkeyword2 a [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery [webmasterworld.com])
  • subkeyword2 b [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery [webmasterworld.com])
  • subkeyword2 c [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery [webmasterworld.com])
  • subkeyword2 d [webmasterworld.com] (Photo Gallery [webmasterworld.com])

    It's quite user friendly and I'm rather certain Google has no problem handling and following well over 100 links per page. I believe a site map is good for search engines, but if i have any page on my site that every other page links to, it's going to be simple and the user has to be the first consideration.

  • petehall




    msg:183060
     10:12 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

    Posters are advising from speculation not from actual practice.

    How would you know? Are you not speculating about me?

    I actually had a site penalised because of this. There were a lot more than 100 links but I am positive it was the cause.

    Google's Design and Content Guidelines:

    - Offer a site map to your users with links that point to the important parts of your site. If the site map is larger than 100 or so links, you may want to break the site map into separate pages.
    - Keep the links on a given page to a reasonable number (fewer than 100).

    These are big enough reasons for me not to tempt fait again.

    You are of course free to do as you like - I merely stated that I would not risk that practise myself. This is only my opinion, I am not stating it as fact.

    DerekH




    msg:183061
     10:26 am on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

    Yes, you could well dominate a minority field like this, because you're essentially spreading your PR pretty much uniformly round the pages so that any page is as equipped as any other page to be a good match for a particular search term.

    In a more competitive arena, however, it is often far better to sharpen the PR up on a number of pages at the expense of pages that you know can't be expected to compete well.
    A flat linking structure doesn't achieve this.

    DerekH

    JudgeJeffries




    msg:183062
     5:08 pm on Dec 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

    It seems to work for me. Distributes PR a treat but what about the spamming element. I have some sites with a site map on every page that repeat the word 'widgets' in every one on those links because thats what the pages are about ie blue widgets, yellow widgets, red widgets, etc, etc.
    Looks like spamming to me but the pages and sites all survive. Any views on this?

    Giga1




    msg:183063
     7:49 am on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

    Yes, you could well dominate a minority field like this, because you're essentially spreading your PR pretty much uniformly round the pages so that any page is as equipped as any other page to be a good match for a particular search term.
    In a more competitive arena, however, it is often far better to sharpen the PR up on a number of pages at the expense of pages that you know can't be expected to compete well.
    A flat linking structure doesn't achieve this.

    I have no disagreements with that statement, very true. We believe it is smarter and easier to target 1,000 of non "money terms" than simply 10 phrases google has already identified somewhere as being difficult to rank for (ie "money terms"). Keep in mind it is completely feasible and plausible to develop a list of 1,000 different combinations of phrases for your top ten phrases, not everyone types in your topic as simply one word... The trick is to develop a list that is still on topic for all your weaker phrases, this is a much much stronger strategy (and predictable results-wise) than going after the top ten terms for your particular industry. In this regard a flat link structure is essential. Its like hunting with a sniper scope and a single bullet, or shotgun full of buckshot, guess its your choice which weapon to pick and what your hunting... (if you follow my metaphor)

    PaulHudson




    msg:183064
     12:03 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

    I agree I love the less popular search terms especially on my newer sites!

    I find a lot of people ask a question in the search box, and with a bit of time and effort your can gather some very effective phrases.

    As for site maps my biggest concern would be the users rather than the search engines. But then I like to believe if you do something for the right reasons then the search engines will recognise that, but thatís not always the case going by some stories.

    Giga1




    msg:183065
     4:55 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

    But then I like to believe if you do something for the right reasons then the search engines will recognise that, but thatís not always the case going by some stories.

    Wake up people we are talking about machines and algorhytms, not benevolant gods, or angelic wishes.. These are cold dead emotionaless, scripts that cannot read human ethics or prayers. Simply know the system, know what does and does not work, and follow the results.

    TNJed




    msg:183066
     5:22 pm on Dec 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

    I agree with you Judge & Giga. I have several sites which all internal pages link to each other and have maintained top of the Y! & MSN SERPs for several years. Not much from Google though, but who cares. I can make pages and rank quicker on Y! and MSN than I can creating a mass of backlinks for Google which may or may not help me out of the sandbox who knows when.

    graywolf




    msg:183067
     10:14 pm on Jan 2, 2005 (gmt 0)

    It will absolutely mesh the PR on the site. However it can look spammy if you don't apply good design, usability and information architecture practices.

  • Organize the items into user-centric groupings.

  • Give it a visual hierarchy to make it look organized. (Use colors and different sizes).

  • Try to make it so the main categories don't wrap.

  • Give each sub item a bullet or other marker in case it wraps onto more than one line .

  • Keep the anchor text as short as possible while still being meaningful. (hint: use the category heading to help)

  • Keep the font as small as possible, but play with line spacing to keep it readable. (hint : verdana works really well).
  • Giga1




    msg:183068
     5:34 pm on Jan 3, 2005 (gmt 0)

    Good advice Graywolf, we follow similar visibility practices. Although spammy in theory, it can be made to flow quite astetically for the end user given the proper techniques (as you have pointed out).

    bears5122




    msg:183069
     9:50 am on Jan 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

    I've noticed that sites with sitemaps on every page have done incredibly well of late in Google. As an added bonus, Yahoo! eats it up as well.

    siteseo




    msg:183070
     3:10 pm on Jan 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

    Placing over 100 "navigational" links on a page is poor usability design. Give a user too many options and they'll go away. Those of you who are doing it are probably doing so primarily for SEO purposes. You'd be better advised to put in some thinking time on how you can present a functional navigation system that makes sense to your users, and is still GBot friendly. Those of you who don't really care about usability won't change your methods until the search engines no longer succumb to your tactics.

    It looks incredibly tacky to have hundreds of text links at the footer of every page linking internally. When I find a site like that I say "goodbye."

    Giga1




    msg:183071
     9:49 pm on Jan 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

    As long as you have good content, a good layout, and a decent design, why would users care what links are on the bottom of a page? Do people refuse to buy products because they have a bar code on the bottom of each package? Heck the barcode isnt visually appealing and sure doesnt mean a whole lot to the end buyer, but depending on how well the product is marketed and how appealing the graphics on the package, determine their buyin habits.

    treeline




    msg:183072
     10:01 pm on Jan 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

    Many surfers never seem to scroll down on a page, so will have little idea what's there.

    Patrick Taylor




    msg:183073
     11:31 pm on Jan 4, 2005 (gmt 0)

    msg #:8 - excellent advice DerekH, and based on fact, not speculation or one-instance observation.

    howiejs




    msg:183074
     3:25 am on Jan 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

    Interesting thread. I have been testing adding all of the themed pages as links at the bottom of the page.

    They have keyword rich anchor text.

    Some pages have several hundred links (all on topic)

    I will report back on the outcome

    Pradyumna




    msg:183075
     5:49 am on Jan 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

    Hey I have a doubt here,
    See if i have about a 1000 pages or more in a site. How would this idea be of making 10 site maps instead of jus one site map.
    I worked on this but i could not see much great results from this.

    Giga1




    msg:183076
     6:54 am on Jan 5, 2005 (gmt 0)

    Some pages have several hundred links (all on topic)

    I dont recommend that, there is a fine line between what google (and..yes..end users) considers a relevant amount of inter-links and blatant spam.

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