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Google Listing Domain with %20
Most serious Google issue I have seen yet.
cdnmarket




msg:62130
 11:16 am on Dec 4, 2004 (gmt 0)
Heres a brief description of the problem.

Our website has been very successful up until update florida, one of the best in our country in fact. Then it vanished entirely never ever ever to be found again it seems.

The bad news doesn't stop here. Our website has been found! The most unexplainable problem we and any other marketing companies have ever seen.

Our domain is listed in google as:
www.%20ourdomain.com
The %20 causes the domain to point to a page cannot be displayed. We have wrote SEVERAL letters to google and recieved no help removing our domain to have their problem fixed and our website re-indexed. They seem to ignore our requests everytime. What seems even more odd is that noone can submit such a url, this had to have happened inside google manually. We would like to hear from other professionals why this happened and how.

Seems that if this is even possible to happen outside google, which we doubt, then there is a new way to
cause trouble for other website owners.

Who do we call when google will not respond to our complaints?

 

cdnmarket




msg:62190
 12:30 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

They are in the business to provide good results?
More like modified results or paid results. Ever since Update florida I lost 100% trust in their company. Many have seen their websites successfull one day then buried the next.

Noone can blame us for not trusting google again.
Especially after others are having to tell us our site was banned, when google couldn't verify such.
MANY website owners this has happened to.

Still to this day google has not told us our website is banned, to me this is non-professional behaviour.
In regards to what webmasterworld has to say about banned websites, that is irrelevant, in regards to googles, actions, policies, and their professional way of doing business worldwide.

In actual fact if it wasnt for all the free website listings google wouldn't exist. Update florida came along just before google went public to give them the leverage they needed. Using free website listings google became a leader in search engines.

What google has done has woken up alot of webmasters to never rely on their online business again as long as google is a so called leader. You can be in #1 spot today, and wake up to never be found again.

Its all about trust, and communication, I feel google should have some sort of communication skills with their free or paying listings. If it wasn't for the free listings they wouldn't exist.

I sure hope other companies come into the market now for search engine technology. There needs to be some serious change. I notice more website owners turning elsewhere to advertise, which is entirely understandable.

So I guess this topic of discussion has changed entirely to: "Wheres our website, Why is it banned? How long is it banned? Where is the Support to answer our simple questions? Where is the literature on their banning procedures, and durations? and What is our current website status?"

These questions are unanswered.

We cannot verify if the site is actually banned we must assume according to webmasterworld because we are left in the dark it seems.
Will google verify a ban? If so they didn't answer where our website was and why it was removed.

Tropical Island




msg:62191
 12:48 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

There are now 62 posts on a thread that should have been no more than 10 or 12.

IMHO we should let this one die a natural death. All the questions have been answered more than once.

The thread creator has not felt it necessary to accept the knowledge and advice of the experienced members of this forum and repeats over and over his beefs with Google.

Enough already.

jdMorgan




msg:62192
 1:09 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

> What google has done has woken up alot of webmasters to never rely on their online business again

Correct, they have reminded those who don't already know that it is not a good idea to base your entire business model on your site's ranking in Google, or in any search engine. Hey, I had #1 in AltaVista afew years ago, and the next day they were gone...

I've seen posts here that indicate that Google has indeed replied to individual webmasters and told them, "No, your site is not banned." However, I don't recall anyone posting that Google replied, "Yes, your site is banned." I suspect they also don't answer accusatory e-mails from angry site owners, either. So, if you don't get a reply...

Cross-linking your sites, duplicate content, doorway pages, cloaking with intent to deceive, keyword stuffing, link farms, 'bad neighborhoods', hidden text, infinite URL spaces -- all of these and more can cause removal or ranking problems. There are no quick or definitive answers, but all are based on the "Quality guidelines" posted in Google's webmaster information section. Search WebmasterWorld for those phrases and also for "reinclusion request."

Why doesn't Google tell us what SEO techniques will get you banned? Easy. If they did, we'd all build 200 sites that pushed those limits in various ways and to various degrees, to see who could get the best ranking by being closest to the line without actually invoking a ban. They cannot and will not give you a list of what SEO techniques they can and can't automatically detect, either. If they did, they'd invite everybody to push the limits. The only thing that holds back some site optimizers is fear of a Google penalty. In many cases, that's a good thing.

Some of the cleanest sites in Google are the ones that were once banned... Once bitten, twice shy.

Good luck fixing your site.
Jim

Seo1




msg:62193
 1:14 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi cdnmarket

you wrote:
Why doesn't google have a system to tell customers WHEN they are banned and WHY they are banned.

Because you are not a customer of theirs, you are someone who happens to work on, or own a website.

Googles "customers" are the users who type search queries into Googles search utility.

You wrote next:

We cannot verify if the site is actually banned we must assume according to webmasterworld because we are left in the dark it seems.

You don't have to and never should assume anything.
Most of the people here have devoted a great deal of time studying Googles way, or learning what those who have studied, have to say.

Nobody is forced to come here to post or read it is a free choice and the information posted is never claimed to be the holy gospel.

We make statements, argue, disagree, but in the end each of us knows the responsibility of our websites in Googles results pages are ours and nobody elses.

Before I started to attempt to say I could optimize someone's site, I spent months reading every page on Google I could many times. I read forums, picked up what I thought was valueable and trashed the rest.

If you had done the same you would not be here asking the following question.

You wrote:
Will google verify a ban? If so they didn't answer where our website was and why it was removed.

Had you read the info for Webmasters on Google.com you would have read this very valuable paragraph.

"" Your page was manually removed from our index, because it did not conform with the quality standards necessary to assign accurate PageRank. We will not comment on the individual reasons a page was removed and we do not offer an exhaustive list of practices that can cause removal. However, certain actions such as cloaking, writing text that can be seen by search engines but not by users, or setting up pages/links with the sole purpose of fooling search engines may result in permanent removal from our index. If you think your site may fall into this category, you might try 'cleaning up' the page and sending a re-inclusion request to help@google.com. We do not make any guarantees about if or when we will re-include your site.""

The Florida update was needed to rid the SERPs of webmasters who were trying to trick the search engine and web surfers. Not because they wanted an influx of cash. Yes they do have a corporate responibility to share holders and if that means ridding their index of spam casino, viagra, and other low relevant spamming type of sites then it's a good thing for those who use Google for research, and for it's shareholders.

In order for Google to maintain it's market share it had to develop ways to ensure fresh relevant content were included in its content.

They rid their index of websites using gateways, doorways, cloaking in the Florida update. They then made an attempt at continual indexing followed by a return to monthly indexing and then an Internet Back Link Update which rid them of stale links in determining Page Rank..

Google has now returned to indexing both continually and monthly.

Old news is not relevant and the old Google could only provide news 30 to 45 days after it happened as it would take 30 days to index the web and another 10 to 15 for them to update their data centers.

Obviously Google did not like some of your moves, this can be remedied by yourself and get back to driving traffic, but as long as you sit on forums and post statements about hoping new search technology comes along when there are 100s of websites overing many variations of search technology and about trusting or not trusting Google is another day your site is not returning to the SERPs.

Also have you updated your content recently? Do you do so often? have you checked your site and server to ensure it can be crawled? Theres more things like broken links, no robots txt file, site architecture, Is the javascript removed from your pages into an external file? are your pages interlinked? is your title the first line under your <head> tag? to worry of.

After you are done checking those several issues there are another 90 or so items you need to check about your site before jumping up and down how a free service is out to destroy your business.

Again if your business relies on Google to be in existence it probably should not exist.

What would you do if MSNs new search suddenly usurped Googles market share and became the dominant player?

I think this thread is now dead...if it isn't it should be.

Seo1




msg:62194
 1:19 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

I forgot one thing

Cdnmarket you wrote:

They are in the business to provide good results?
More like modified results or paid results. Ever since Update florida I lost 100% trust in their company. Many have seen their websites successfull one day then buried the next.

I released a Press Release on Nov 10, 2004, it had Google Front Page results Nov 20, 2004 for diamond brokers and for americas diamonds.

That Press Release was current and relevant.

And the beauty of it is I paid not a cent for Google to place it there and it has not been used by anyone to take my positions.

And I am not an advertiser of theirs in Googles Adwords so that theory has no value.

Peace

cdnmarket




msg:62195
 1:36 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

In regards to Old news is not relevant, Old news is relevant especially regarding business practise, as previous business history does not dissapear.

Our website scores excellent in MSN, as well as the other search engines. It seems google has banned us without an accurate reason, or any reason in the matter. There simply is no other explanation.

It's unfortunate google can not provide us with a reason easily why or if our website is banned. I still have no clue why they cannot provide an answer.

I guess we are still in the dark like the other businesses. Keep our fingers crossed for future news and information, and advertise elsewhere in the meentime I suppose.

There is no sense in doing anything if the scores of our site is optimal in other search engines.
All we can do is share our bad experience with other webmasters, businesses, & the public to make them aware, and discuss other advertising alternatives.

Liane




msg:62196
 1:51 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

There is no sense in doing anything if the scores of our site is optimal in other search engines.

Heavy Sigh. OK then ... you know what's best for you. Personally, I would be reading everything there is to read on the subject of Google bans and get busy fixing my site. There is a lot of good info on WebmasterWorld which could help you sort your site out.

However, since you would seemingly prefer to spend your time proclaiming the "evil of Google" and deny any wrong doing on your part, rather than actually learn anything ... good luck in your future endeavours.

Seo1




msg:62197
 1:56 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Whats good for Yahoo is not Good for MSN and whats good for those two is not what works on Google.
Yahoo uses metas Google does not.

Also you have misspoke again I feel:

You wrote

In regards to Old news is not relevant, Old news is relevant especially regarding business practise, as previous business history does not dissapear.

I think if you look at search engines more like newspapers and television news, you will see how what is relevant and fresh is news and what is not is no longer news.

Remeber when the invasion of Iraq started, everywhere you turned the news was full of the war. Now it is news that is a mere mention.

Next issue:
You wrote:

It's unfortunate google can not provide us with a reason easily why or if our website is banned. I still have no clue why they cannot provide an answer.

It's not unfortunate, it is business sense, why would they pay people, since it would take more than a handful, to appease webmasters who cannot listen, when they earn no direct revenue from posting their results?

Did you ever stop and think at the cost of a distributed server environement hosting terabytes of information and in return receiving no revenue for such? Their bandwidth costs are probably the GDP of some small country.

You now want this free service to reach deeper into their pockets to e-mail you personally about what is wrong with your site?

Perhaps you do not have past business experience and the lack of thought in such areas would be understood, but as someone who appears to run a business you need simply sit and read a profit & loss statement to understand common business sense.

Again you are worrying about what Google is doing to you, (which is nothing) and not what you have done wrong..

You can share your experience with people about how you feel about Google but those who have a clue to how Google operates will also see this as whining.

Peace and Good Luck.. you appear to need it.

Clint

Clint

cdnmarket




msg:62198
 2:02 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

I really don't consider it news, I consider it business practise. You really don't want to draw the iraq war into this conversation ha ha.

As the news stated before the war there was no weapons of mass destruction, except from cnn and bbc... Did anyone listen? NO.

Should everyone of listened? Yes.

lol lets not draw the war into this. There is alot to be learned from history.

[edited by: cdnmarket at 2:05 am (utc) on Dec. 6, 2004]

Liane




msg:62199
 2:05 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

A closed mind is a good thing to lose! :)

BigDave




msg:62200
 2:17 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Enjoy your bitterness. Please come back when you are actually interested in solving your problems.

cdnmarket




msg:62201
 2:33 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

No no, no bitterness whatsoever with anyone here, just left clueless, it seems the site is currently in a black hole. Sharing our experience with other webmasters/viewers. I am certain there are other businesses left clueless as well. The entire reason we just created another post asking if anyone else is left in the dark or had their problem resolved.

This should be a very interesting topic of discussion.
I assume it will get a high score, lets see.

BigDave




msg:62202
 3:02 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Or, you simply could have done the search I suggested and seen how many people have been there too. It ain't uncommon at all.

Why do you find

celenoid




msg:62203
 3:04 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

cdnmarket: There is no sense in doing anything if the scores of our site is optimal in other search engines.

That's your decision. If, despite much helpful and generous advice, you've resolved yourself to this kind of defeat, WHAT are you doing here, wasting our time for in a forum designed to help webmasters with Google issues?

cdnmarket: it seems the site is currently in a black hole

Hmm... I'm starting to wonder if maybe you are right. Maybe Google has manually targetted your site 'for no reason' -- if you're whining to them half as much as you're abusing us, who could blame them?

OptiRex




msg:62204
 3:14 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Strewth! Good word for all those that do not know it:-)

Anyway, cdnmarket, I rarely post since I am so busy and have been so all weekend however I have just read all the thread here and I have one question to ask you:

Are you reading AND understanding what anyone is advising you?

You have a problem and it is up to you to find the source which is creating your current situation.

I will take a bet and tell you that every contributor to this thread has at some time had such a "problem".

Did they whinge and whine about it? I bet so over a few beers but over the next few days and weeks they sat down, concentrated, scanned WebmasterWorld et al, experimented, identified the issues and corrected the situation.

Everyone has spent and wasted far too much time advising you because quite simply you will not believe that it may be something other than you consider a conspiracy...

Find the cause, resolve it and go forward!

cdnmarket




msg:62205
 3:19 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

I just finished stating the site is possibly banned.
There is no way to tell for sure if it is or not.
We have not gotten any answers, and continue to score well in other search engines.
Therefore we are left in the dark. Is it banned or isn't it banned? They won't tell us why or if or how.

caveman




msg:62206
 3:36 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

What is that noise I hear? Ah, wait, I think that it is the sound of many foreheads bumping against walls around the world. :-)

BigDave




msg:62207
 3:39 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Once again, use the site search here and start reading.

Have you even looked at any other threads about this issue?

There are even posts from a helpful google employee, and other that not only had similar problems, but got out of them.

Stop posting for a while, and start reading. If you have a question, search on it and read some more.

cdnmarket




msg:62208
 4:03 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks BigDave for all your help, unfortunately you are unable to answer the ultimate question. However you were very helpfull guiding us to read the webmasterworld comments regarding these issues.

We have read googleguys posts, and he has answers to most problems, however the problems don't answer our questions.

Our original problem, we felt was our domain was replaced by www.%20ourdomain.com in google.
Now we are assuming the worst case scenario, buried in the dark not related to the %20 issue, because we have tried everything else, even contacting them. We were assuming the %20 was the answer why our site vanished without a trace (removed).

As for the site it does score well in every other search engine as I mentioned numerous times.

We will assume it is removed by google team if the %20 is not the issue, and we will still remain in the dark without any reason or answers to our questions. There is nothing wrong with the website whatsoever.

DerekH




msg:62209
 7:30 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

There is nothing wrong with the website whatsoever.

I already posted to say that the two pages of your site that I fed into the W3C validator had over 100 errors between them.

You really aren't reading our replies at all, are you?

<clunk> Another forehead on wall....

DerekH

opiesilver




msg:62210
 8:13 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Would you please stop now? I have a soft spot on my forehead developing rapidly. I had a problem where I dropped out of Google and fixed it by just by fixing all of the mistakes I made in the HTML coding.

cdnmarket




msg:62211
 12:21 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

The site has nothing wrong with it, all the code is good and the site is scoring well in all other search engines. The same code pretty much while it was already crawled successfully. So it wasn't the code 100% positive. The site has been re-submitted numerous times and still nothing, still in what I call a black hole.

Seo1




msg:62212
 1:10 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

To Opie

Way to go! Someone does pay attention!

that softspot on your forehead though....you must have a nail sticking out of the wall when you bang your head on it from reading this topic.....

same sort of thing happened to my eye when I drink coffee...Dr. said something about taking the spoon out of my cup...which seemed to work.

Clint

OptiRex




msg:62213
 1:32 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Seo1

>same sort of thing happened to my eye when I drink coffee...Dr. said something about taking the spoon out of my cup...which seemed to work.

You mean your company allows you a real cup and spoon and it isn't machine-produced boiling hot river water served up in a flimsy plastic mug which collapses and gushes scalding water all over ones hands when trying to pick it up?

Me jealous? You bet:-)

saoi_jp




msg:62214
 1:42 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

DerekH: two pages of your site that I fed into the W3C validator had over 100 errors between them

reply:
cdnmarket:all the code is good

>>thunk<<

cdnmarket: the site is scoring well in all other search engines

For now. Fingers crossed.

Good luck getting your situation straightened out.

cdnmarket




msg:62215
 2:13 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks saoi_jp, I presume we need more than luck.
We of course could not find the same problem in beta.search.msn.com either as you previously mentioned. The site has no problem being crawled by msn either.

Liane




msg:62216
 2:14 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hehe ... Just got a sticky from GoogleGuy who said to tell you:

Yes, your site has been banned. He won't reply here because he is terribly offended by some of your remarks. Can't say I blame him.

You've already been told your code is very poor and does not conform to WC3 validation. So instead of stating that you are 100% positive there is nothing wrong with your site, check it here [validator.w3.org]

You have also likely indulged in some other no no's as clearly outlined here [google.com.ag] and here [google.com.ag] and here [google.com.ag]

But most importantly, I think you really need to drop in here [groups-beta.google.com] I know they'd love to hear from you! :)

I suppose now you want proof by way of a registered letter from Sergei himself and the Google company seal over his signature seeing as you are such a good "customer" huh? Its in the mail! ;)

For heaven's sake ... stop winging and get to work if you want to "find the light"! People here have been more than generous with their advice and time. What more do you want for free? Get to work!

"There is none so blind as he who will not see and none so empowered as he who learns to read"

[edited by: Liane at 2:15 pm (utc) on Dec. 6, 2004]

Chris_D




msg:62217
 2:14 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

cdnmarket, when your site validates - then your code is good.

1. Validate the site.

2. Find the links to your site with the spaces in them - they may be your own pages.

"you can lead a horse to water....."

If all else fails, put this in your robots.txt file:

User-Agent: Googlebot
Disallow: /

Then you won't ever have to worry about Google ever victimising you ever again.

:)

Liane




msg:62218
 2:24 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Then you won't ever have to worry about Google ever victimising you ever again.

Good one! :)

Seo1




msg:62219
 3:10 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

cdnmarket

You obviously missed Webmaster 101 in which most of us learned that poorly structured html coding will do more to stop a bot from crawling your pages than anything else.

If your site has over 50 errors for your one page that Derek was kind enough to check for you, then the google bot problem is yours alone! and all this rant about a conspiracy will make you look even more foolish.

Since you undoubtedly will not believe us here I advise you to surf to your favorite search engine at the moment ( I doubt its google ) and type in the following line as it appears.

html+errors+spiders

read each of the 10 pages found in the results then take your code to w3c . org for validation.

Have a good one!

PS yes you would will need to validate all your pages if you want the spiders to crawl them.

And as to why MSN may like you with your error prone coding is, they do not strive to the quality guidelines that Google does in helping those with accessibility problems find information.

<----runs over and takes control of the lock thread switch

Patrick Taylor




msg:62220
 6:04 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

As to why MSN may like you with your error prone coding is, they do not strive to the quality guidelines that Google does in helping those with accessibility problems find information.

In what way does Google do more for people with accessibility problems than does MSN? I'm not challenging the assertion - I would genuinely like to know!

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