homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.196.62.132
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member

Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google News Archive
Forum Library, Charter, Moderator: open

Google News Archive Forum

This 50 message thread spans 2 pages: 50 ( [1] 2 > >     
UK site nowhere to be seen
Does Google rank german hosted sites as German sites?
Panic_Man




msg:99809
 8:29 am on Dec 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

We have had a .co.uk for two years, granted it only has 64 backlinks but it is PR6 which knocks most of the competition off page 1 BUT it is still nowhere to be found. The US site ranks page 1 and 2 for our main keywords and although the content is different, the keyword saturation etc is similar.

All our sites are hosted with 1and1 which has its servers in Germany, typing in 'panic attacks' on google.de puts our main site in position 1 which seems to imply that google sees us as a german website.

Does anyone have any ideas about how to get our Uk page to rank in the UK?

 

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:99810
 10:32 am on Dec 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

My sites are hosted by 1&1 and I have had no problems with this (until the sandbox!).

glengara




msg:99811
 11:19 am on Dec 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

*..how to get our Uk page to rank in the UK?*

If you mean the "pages from the UK" section, a .co.uk page should be in there wherever it's hosted.

Do both your US and UK pages come up in a Google.com search?

muesli




msg:99812
 11:52 am on Dec 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

my mainly english .at-site is hosted in US but ranks very well in google.de and google.at, must be for being ".at".

vincevincevince




msg:99813
 1:29 pm on Dec 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Do try to use UK information!

Iguana




msg:99814
 10:06 pm on Dec 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

I moved my site to the UK 1&1 hosting 18 months ago and my .com sites don't appear in the google.co.uk listings (but do very well in google.de). My co.uks still feature well in the UK only search. I assume it's because the nameservers are .de sites

OptiRex




msg:99815
 3:30 am on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

We've had this one several times.

If you want to rank well in .co.uk your best option ( I haven't written sole option) is to ensure your server is UK based.

.coms hosted in the UK will still rank highly in the .co.uk results and also in the .coms if good enough.

Hosting a .co.uk in Germany will usually result in poor UK results, if any, but will be shown in .de results for English language queries for German results, not German only pages...surprise, surprise.

Realistically, 1&1 should not be selling these packages to anyone who want to rank well in the .co.uk results...and yeah, yeah, yeah, there are always the exceptions, but in general they do not resolve.

As you have said your other site can rank at the top even though hosted in Germany.

Quite simple really, it's a pity these companies do not advise the pitfalls behind their low pricing schemes.

petehall




msg:99816
 2:59 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Firstly, your domain extension is not an important factor - .co.uk or .com are both as good as each other.

Our most successful sites in Google UK are .com, however that has nothing to do with the extension used.

Make sure that your hosting server is within the UK or you will not rank in the UK results.

It really is as simple as that!

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:99817
 3:47 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Make sure that your hosting server is within the UK or you will not rank in the UK results.

I repectfully disagree and my experience totally contradicts this. On my main website, which is a .co.uk hosted with 1&1, I rank number one for a highly competitive keyword in Google in both US and UK. My other KWs and phrases on pre-sandbox sites do OK too.

If there is a reason why a hosting server has to be in the UK can someone please back this up with an explanation?

petehall




msg:99818
 4:11 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

If there is a reason why a hosting server has to be in the UK can someone please back this up with an explanation?

Yes, how else do you determine geographic location? Obviously language wouldn't work well.

I'd try a tracert on your website as I have yet to see a non-UK hosted domain appear in UK results.

(I am only speaking from my 5 years of experience, I have not tested this across 100's of sites - there may be exceptions.)

Amygdala




msg:99819
 4:12 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Make sure that your hosting server is within the UK or you will not rank in the UK results.

I repectfully disagree also. I have a .co.uk domain with thousands of pages that is doing very well on google searches, both normal and when restricted to UK-only, and it is hosted in the US.

I'm talking about a site that hits top spots for big money terms, and has done for over a year now. So I really disagree, you do not have to be hosted in the UK.

petehall




msg:99820
 4:20 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'd be very interested to check this in Google if someone could sticky me a URL.

Ideally, what I am looking for is a .com domain name that is not hosted in the UK but appears in Google UK only SERPs.

OptiRex




msg:99821
 6:28 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

BeeDeeDubbleU & Amygdala

You are the exceptions to the rule and there may be several others however I very much doubt that anyone launching a brand new web site not using a UK based server would rank very highly, if at all, in .co.uk.

There have been several threads about this here and it nearly always concerns 1&1 which is understandable since they are #1 in Europe I believe.

As a matter of interest how old are your sites?

When did you first submit them and did you submit them through google.co.uk or .com?

It's very awkward making generalisations however petehall has been doing this for 5+ years and I have been doing this for 10+ years and I would guess that both of us, BTW I don't know him, have experimented with all kinds of configurations and locations and experience has taught us both that the safest and, more or less guaranteed method, is the UK based server.

If you're succeeding, great:-)

Amygdala




msg:99822
 7:27 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

You are the exceptions to the rule and there may be several others however I very much doubt that anyone launching a brand new web site not using a UK based server would rank very highly, if at all, in .co.uk.

Which rule? None of my domains are hosted in the UK, and quite a few of them are .co.uk and I've just sat here testing them - they seem to show up nicely in uk-websites-only SERPS as well as the norm.

There have been several threads about this here and it nearly always concerns 1&1 which is understandable since they are #1 in Europe I believe.

I host with ev1servers (Houston based), so US, no question about it.

As a matter of interest how old are your sites?

I run one very large one. It has thousands of pages owing to spiderable community contributions etc. I've had it running and SEO'd to an extent for the last 2.5 years or so.

When did you first submit them and did you submit them through google.co.uk or .com?

I didn't submit them anywhere - you really don't have to you know. I made sure (where I could) that they made it into their respective dmoz categories etc. You know, the usual stuff. Then I just made sure that my main one was so damn good that people would naturally link in; and they have :)

It's very awkward making generalisations however petehall has been doing this for 5+ years and I have been doing this for 10+ years

Sure, and I'm not knocking anyone, but amount of years doesn't necessarily equate to wisdom/intelligence. I'm always suspicious of people when they start placing their (ahem) 'assets' on the table ;)

and I would guess that both of us, BTW I don't know him, have experimented with all kinds of configurations and locations and experience has taught us both that the safest and, more or less guaranteed method, is the UK based server.

Sure, but I burn just over 1000Gigs/month on my main site alone (yes I mean 1 thousand). The cost of hosting my operation in the UK would be prohibitive. I can't be on my own on this one. Surely if a search engine can detect it's UK centric that's enough. Why rely on where it's hosted? That seems mad to me. Especially since there are so many great hosting deals in the US compared to the UK. I can't be the only one doing this.

If you're succeeding, great:-)

Cheers :)

And don't think I'm trying to misdirect others into failing... I'm just saying it like it is. Just trying to add my bit of experience to the intelligence base here.

OptiRex




msg:99823
 8:05 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi Amygdala

>Which rule?

Simply a generalisation learnt through experience, that's all.

>I host with ev1servers

Just had a look at their deals...even aol abuse are there!

>Then I just made sure that my main one was so damn good that people would naturally link in; and they have :)

Excellent.

>I didn't submit them anywhere - you really don't have to you know.

That may be so these days however it's only been the past couple of years or so that it has not been so necessary.

>but amount of years doesn't necessarily equate to wisdom/intelligence.

Agreed, but there may just have been the possibility of a steep learning curve that has been experienced. Don't forget that everyone who comes here is in a teaching and learning environment from people who have had many different experiences both good and bad. I lurked on these forums for years before I decided that others may be able to benefit from my knowledge for free which, I might add, some people actually pay to some SEO's thousands of Dollars.

In general most people wouldn't take advice from someone who could not back up their claims. You can and so can petehall and me...with different opinions!

>there are so many great hosting deals in the US compared to the UK.

In fact there are some great deals in the UK IF one knows where to host however I would have to agree that the US deals seem to have more high profile "offers".

1000 Gigs a month is pretty good going and it's not a bad deal they offer for that either.

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:99824
 8:16 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

This should not be so difficult. Does anyone have any real evidence that being hosted in the UK makes it easier to rank in the UK results? This should not be a secret since it does not really come into the actual SEO equation. My own site is hosted by 1&1, it has a .co.uk TLD and it ranks extremely well in both Google.com and Google.co.uk.

I would have thought that it would be more logical to determine location from the TLD as opposed to the location of the servers. It's a pity that GoogleGuy is no longer around. This is one of these questions that he would probably have been able to answer?

OptiRex




msg:99825
 9:46 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Does anyone have any real evidence that being hosted in the UK makes it easier to rank in the UK results?

Personally not for the UK, however nearly all the problems I have ever had and read about for whichever regional Google usually indicates that the server location appears to be one of the defining factors.

I have .com's, .co.uk's, .biz's and .info's all in the English language on a UK server which all perform well in both .com and .co.uk. They all also perform well in every Google in practically every language when using the www option. I haven't tried all of them so cannot say 100% for sure.

When we tried a .com with a German KW in the German language we could not even get listed on .de until we located it on a German based server.

We also had the same experience with .fr and .it not being listed until they were located on French and Italian servers.

Is it all part of the Google "local" plan for the future with server location being the determining factor for which country one is based and the results delivered?

Anyone else with any experiences? There must be!

petehall




msg:99826
 10:26 pm on Dec 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am surprised by these findings - I have always encountered problems with non-UK hosting. I wonder if I was just not patient enough?!

I still stand by the hosting rule for .com domains though - if you are a UK .com you need UK hosting.

The hosting or .co.uk domain extension is really the only way to determine geographical location... unless of course that's another thing I am wrong about! :-)

(Someone please educate me if I am wrong)

joeking




msg:99827
 12:04 am on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

.co.uk domains show up in Google UK only searches irrespective of location of servers. We have a dozen .co.uk sites hosted in the USA that rank very highly in google.co.uk. And one hosted in Turkey (long story!) does the same.

Interestingly, I built a site with very specific UK content that was a .com hosted in the USA. It ranked number one for keywords in google.com, but was nowhere to be found in the UK search results. A .co.uk version of the site was then built, same hosts, and it ranked number one in both UK and elsewhere searches for same keywords.

So for me the extension is very important to Google if hosting outside of the UK.

muesli




msg:99828
 10:24 am on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

So for me the extension is very important to Google if hosting outside of the UK.

i think that's the point. you need EITHER a TLD from that respective country (language zones like AT/CH/DE being often also regarded) OR have a .com-domain (.org, .net, etc) hosted on an IP-range belonging to that country.

i see no evidence having BOTH benefiting more than either.

OptiRex




msg:99829
 1:13 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

joeking - Can't ask for better evidence than that can we? Does anyone else have such an overwhelming fact?

Like petehall I am quite surprised and I have to admit that I have deliberately steered clear of US based servers with the background thought that our sites may disappear from .co.uk. As it is all our top ranked Google.co.uk sites are all .coms hosted in the UK and they're not moving anywhere!

As an associated question, and I know this was brought up about a year ago, however is there any really good reason why Google.com could not display the results like other Googles and show results from the USA only?

Of course there would be still be loads of sites shown in the results which were simply hosted there however it would certainly be of benefit to ourselves, and I suspect many others who trade or supply widgets internationally, since at the present time my top ranked results are above all my US customer web sites consequently we spend a lot of time filtering and forwarding enquiries etc which, theoretically, we would not receive since we should only be displayed in the www results.

And yes, we do have each country's contact page listed but, as you well know, surfers rarely read, they just click, send and expect an immediate response...

Or am I chasing up a blind alley here?

Do Google not want to do this or have they actually experimented with it and it did not work?

Iguana




msg:99830
 1:31 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

The info that Google lists UK-based .coms and all .co.uk domains in it's uk only search has been around for a long time - no surprise there. The only new info is that 1&1.co.uk actually hosts in Germany.

What about Yahoo though? I've just checked and my 1&1.co.uk based .com is included in the UK only search - maybe their geolocation is based on the fact that when my .com first appeared it was UK hosted.

glengara




msg:99831
 1:40 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Site location is determined by IP identity, so sites with UK hosts using foreign IPs/US servers would also not turn up.

Happened to a clients' site last year, host bought a bunch of Dutch IPs and put her on one, site fell out of the "pages from Ireland" section until those IPs were re-registered as Irish.

Not all hosts will do that automatically, this one was under pressure ;-)

Digital Point has a handy tool to show the site Geolocation...

Panic_Man




msg:99832
 4:23 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi Folks, thank you so much for your comments and assistance. I think I may have just found the proof.

When I search for my main keyword using google.de and selecting 'seiten aus Deutschland' (pages IN Germany), not one of my competitors sites comes up, BUT mine do! Even the .com

This obviously means that although the .com and .co.uk sites are on a German server, google.com only ranks the .com as being relevant because it's a .com....the .co.uk doesn't rank in the uk because google.com sees it as a german based business looking for UK trade! It's sort of spamming I guess.

Surely this proves 100% that google are leaving my uk site high and dry because 1and1 don't use uk servers.

I agree with the posting that said that 1and1 should advise of this before their clients buy. This could be destroying an SEO's work without them knowing.

I THINK this has QED'd the whole thing but you may have over thoughts.

glengara




msg:99833
 4:31 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

*.the .co.uk doesn't rank in the uk because google.com sees it as a german..*

That TLD is enough for it to be listed in "pages from the UK", if it's listed but doesn't rank is a different story...probably duplicate content filter.

BeeDeeDubbleU




msg:99834
 4:36 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Surely this proves 100% that google are leaving my uk site high and dry because 1and1 don't use uk servers.

No.

I think you need to read the thread again. I have several .co.uk sites hosted by 1&1 and none of them have suffered through this. They are all seen as UK sites because, I assume, they have .co.uk TLDs.

I am not here to fly the flag for 1&1 but I can only tell it like it is. My overwhelming evidence is that hosting .co.uk sites in Germany makes no difference.

petehall




msg:99835
 4:40 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Panic_Man end your panic by changing to a UK host.

If you have more than one domain use your strongest (oldest with most links) and pace a 301 redirect to it from the others.

I guarantee you will not be disappointed...

Panic_Man




msg:99836
 4:56 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

BeeDeeDubbleU, have you tried going to google.de and searching for your keyword using the 'seiten aud deutschland' filter? Do your pages rank higher than they do on google.com by doing this? In theory, your pages shouldn't be there at all.

My competitors in the Uk with .co.uk sites aren't there when I do the same so why am I? It is the only thing that seperates us from them. We have higher PR, more backlinks and higher KW density, so what else could it possibly be?

glengara




msg:99837
 5:06 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

The site would appear in 'seiten aus deutschland' because of the German IP.

Iguana




msg:99838
 5:39 pm on Dec 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm a bit confused Panic_Man. I typed the phrase you suggested in your first post on google.de and I didn't get a single .co.uk in the first 100 results

In fact if I search for "co uk" with the 'Seiten aus Deutschland' then I don't get any .co.uk sites in the response. In fact, I have yet to see any co.uk in the german only results

This 50 message thread spans 2 pages: 50 ( [1] 2 > >
Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google News Archive
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved