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3 months since the last public PR update...
hugo_guzman




msg:118945
 3:12 pm on Sep 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's been exactly 3 months since the last public PR update (June 22nd/23rd).

If Google has shifted to quarterly PR updates, then we should see something fairly soon.

 

robotsdobetter




msg:118946
 8:40 pm on Sep 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

I would think so, but with Google you never know!

Vadim




msg:118947
 1:00 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

It's been exactly 3 months since the last public PR update (June 22nd/23rd).

What do you mean public and where is the date from?

My PR was updated less than month ago.

Vadim.

Stefan




msg:118948
 1:20 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

My PR was updated less than month ago.

I don't know how you managed that... we have pages online since early July still showing a white bar, (PR6 index page). Is it a new site? Is anyone seeing PR for new pages on existing sites since the beginning of July?

BillyS




msg:118949
 1:22 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

My PR was updated less than month ago.

You are the exception, not the rule. My newest website was updated in the Google directory last month, but not on the toolbar. Most of us are in that situation, not yours.

skipfactor




msg:118950
 1:53 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

>> Is anyone seeing PR for new pages on existing sites since the beginning of July?

Nope

Ledfish




msg:118951
 4:04 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Nope, no update here either. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised to never see another update.

WebFusion




msg:118952
 4:24 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I honestly think that the "little green bar" will be eliminated from the toolbar in the next version...which will destroy the PR-sellers business model overnight (they must lie awake at night and think about that).

You should keep in mind that only "visible" PR (i.e. that shows on the tool bar) has not been updated. Actual PR has been updated several times over the last few months.

Check out all the sites with a toolbar PR of "0" that are at or near the top of the serps. Do you honestly think that is their true PR in the Algo?

The only thing I'll dread about seeing it go from the toolbar is being able to tell if a site is penalized ot not before I link to it (although, since Pr updates have been so sporadic of late, that is largely ineffective now anyway).

dvduval




msg:118953
 4:30 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am actually more interested in purchasing links on high traffic sites now that google is not updating PageRank, because the ROI on the links exceeds Adwords.

WebFusion




msg:118954
 5:33 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am actually more interested in purchasing links on high traffic sites now that google is not updating PageRank, because the ROI on the links exceeds Adwords.

That's always been the case for us. Being able to have a set per-month caost (as opposed to the inconsistent fluctations PPC brings with it) has always been a big plus for us when buying ads on sites targeting our demos.

Right now...we generate about 30% of our sales from traffic generated from other sites via text links (either paid ads or straight link trades with other related sites). I can see this number clmibing in the future.

I think the biggest chink in the PPC business model was introduced by the players (i.e. search engines) themselves. Once you allow "affiliates" in en masse, click fraud will drive alot of advertisers out of "content based" ads (ala adsense). I know it did us. I think the latest google "rebate" offer for advertisers to try content-based ads again should be an indicator to all of us....that part of their business model may be on the way out within the next couple of years.

steveb




msg:118955
 6:16 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

"which will destroy the PR-sellers business model overnight"

It would have no real effect whatsoever. The only people it would dissuade would be clueless ones. Buying (or selling PR) is buying PR. It seldom is about buying some silly green display.

Reality is what matters, not a representation of it (whether accurate or not).

Google eliminating the display would amp up considerably the trafficing in PR selling, particularly from the extremes of good quality sites and bad ones (ones who have been caught and it is clear they do not currently pass PR).

chatterbug89




msg:118956
 6:50 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

You know...I dont' think Page Rank Updates are compleely dead.

With all the downtime..first my site went down...got page rank of 0 from foru them came back to 5, and now i have had 4 days of downtimeand am at page rak of 0...I am realy hoping i get my page rank back...Google actually completely removed me from the database for being down so long :( Hop3efully i'll get reindexed soon and they will relise i'm online again...

experienced




msg:118957
 7:28 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

My site is online from July 2004 and my site is getting PR4 for inner pages but home page is not getting update since then. ITs PR2 only. Assuming home page is eligble for more PR then inner, but not sure when we can see in tool bar. Let hope SOON :)

Exp...

lexis200




msg:118958
 8:32 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've had a T-shirt site up for the last year, and a few months after it was launched my front page got a PR2, then 4, and now it's PR6. My inner pages were at PR5. Suddenly, my inner pages have dropped to PR0. What's that all about? If they really are 3 month updates, I'm completely screwed for Christmas! I don't use any "clever" tactics for SEO.

Dave

subway




msg:118959
 9:01 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think the problem is that being a relatively small company like G (in terms of employees) they had to temporarily move all the techies from the “Search Quality” department to the “Adwords and Adsense” departments to maximise profits before the IPO. Now they’re all multi millionaires, they’re wheeling their chairs back into the “Search Quality” department to squeeze out what will probably be another devastating update before the Christmas buying frenzy. So brace yourself everyone.

G has been inconsistent and illogical for too long now. They can not be relied upon as a traffic source in your business plan.

Pass the Dutchie




msg:118960
 9:31 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

lexis200

did you rename yourpages or alter the site's file structure?

boxhead




msg:118961
 10:55 am on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Im probably another exception to the rule a few of my deep internal pages went from PR 2 to PR 3 at the begining of last month for a site that has been around since the start of this year.

Anna.

WebFusion




msg:118962
 4:49 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Buying (or selling PR) is buying PR. It seldom is about buying some silly green display.

However...if the "little green display" is no longer present in the toolbar, what will the PR peddlers utilize to market their "Ads".

I haven't seen a single one markeitng their sites as traffic sources, only sources of increasing one's PR.

To say it won't have an affect at all on these business models is (IMO) incorrect. If the basis of your business is a independently verified "quality rating (i.e. the little green bar) and that bar is no longer available to you, all people will have to rely upon is someone's word that this site or that will increase their PR (which, with the large numebr of sites having the PR-passing ability blocked, is hit or miss). I guess their only marketing tool if that happens will be the backlink count - oh wait...that's screwed up now as well ;-)

steveb




msg:118963
 8:27 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you don't see how that will obviously lead to more buying then I don't know what to say.

If someone wants something, and it is sitting under their nose with a price tag on it, they will just buy it. But if someone still wants something, but the examples are hidden under baskets, they will buy as many examples as it takes (or they can afford) to get what they want.

It's illogical to think that if the display is gone that people will suddenly not want to be at the top of the serps! The fact is, people will still want to be #1 (or in the top ten) and will inefficiently do what they can to get there.

WebFusion




msg:118964
 8:40 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you don't see how that will obviously lead to more buying then I don't know what to say.
If someone wants something, and it is sitting under their nose with a price tag on it, they will just buy it. But if someone still wants something, but the examples are hidden under baskets, they will buy as many examples as it takes (or they can afford) to get what they want.

It's illogical to think that if the display is gone that people will suddenly not want to be at the top of the serps! The fact is, people will still want to be #1 (or in the top ten) and will inefficiently do what they can to get there.

Where did I say people would stop buying links, or for the matter, stop trying to gain better rankings.

My POINT is that the PR peddlers will not be able to market their "wares" using the current pitch of "this site will increase your PR - they're a PR8" etc.

If YOU think that elminating the green bar from the toolbar will lead to MORE link buying - than I don't know what to say.

Sure, links will still get bought and sold...the point is, PR will no longer be able to be a selling point. YES...it's still there, and YES people will TRY to increase their PR by buying links...but the whole value/pricing structure will HAVE to change.

Would you pay $400 or more per month for a text link on an unrelated site for the CHANCE it might be a high PR increase your page rank? We all know inbound links are no true inidcator of a high PR site. Hell, one of my site shows over 4900 incoming links, yet remains a PR6, while another similar site shows less than 2000 and is a PR8...but how would I know that without the green bar?

Again....I'm not suggesting that link buying will cease, only that it will be much more difficult to market the "Increase your PR" angle without the TPR to back up those marketing pitches.

A side benefit of eliminating VISIBLE PR would be to start nudging "advertisers" who had simply purchased links from any high-PR site, regardless of topic/theme, to purchasing links from sites more closely related to their content.

steveb




msg:118965
 8:51 pm on Sep 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

"the point is, PR will no longer be able to be a selling point."

Of course it will. You keep thinking that PR is the green bar. It isn't. The green bar does nothing in itself. If someone is buying PR for the green bar, they need a serious clue fast.

Every Tom, Dick and Harry will now be able to say that buying links on their site will increase your PR.

"but how would I know that without the green bar?"

By doing a middling amount of quality research; or by blindly guessing. And it doesn't matter. You just want to ignore the fact that people do buy PR now. They do. Of those who do, 98% buy PR to get PR, not steak knives.

Removing the display would simply increase the value of PR.

Vadim




msg:118966
 2:25 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

My PR was updated less than month ago.

I don't know how you managed that... we have pages online since early July still showing a white bar, (PR6 index page). Is it a new site? Is anyone seeing PR for new pages on existing sites since the beginning of July?

I wrote about new part of my old site. This new part updated its PR in Google less than a month ago.

Basically I added new pages for my new shareware. New pages were related by general topic with old pages. My site had a guide to the main topic, pages about software that is strategic manager of the topic and I added pages for new tactic or everyday manager software.

New part quickly got PR about 4/10 ant then PR dropped to 0.

I redesigned my site in accordance with this group and Google advices. It was in June (see my call for help in this group for details [webmasterworld.com...]

Less than month ago my PR (in the Google toolbar) restored its value.

PR is alive.

Vadim.

Liane




msg:118967
 2:45 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

None of my new pages added since July are showing any incoming links from outside (or inside) sources. However, I know:

1) The new pages have all been indexed.
2) There are existing links from outside sources to some of the new pages.
3) All pages are ranking well for targeted keywords.
4) I am getting good hits from Google on all new pages.

I know outside links exist, because I have stumbled upon several of them!

Although we may not be able to see it, I believe that the PR is being calculated and applied ... but not shown in your handy dandy toolbars.

Thank God I am a Mac user. Since I can't get the toolbar, I don't worry or agonize over the PR toolbar.

All I need to know is the above 4 points ... and I'm very happy with the results to date! :)

dvduval




msg:118968
 4:10 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is getting REALLY OLD! (and frustrating too)

FACT: The Toolbar has not updated in 3 months
FACT: There is a filter in effect for new sites
FACT: GoogleGuy is inactive here at WebmasterWorld
CONJECTURE: PageRank is actually updating under certain circumstances but not showing on the toolbar

So...
Google has a feature that is becoming increasingly meaningless and they are not telling anyone what is going on even though PageRank lies at the very root of Google's algorithm.

And...
Webmasters are are becoming increasingly concerned, or even adversarial, in their thoughts about Google.

Therefore...it would be nice if...
Google explained what is going on or...
UPDATES PAGERANK!

I just don't get it..
I can manage with the present situation, but more than anything else, it just doesn't make sense, and I'm pretty hesitant to spend money with this company right now.

It takes a little more work, but...
I am finding that purchasing links on quality sites, writing and managing a quality enewsletter, and non-web promotions are doing as good or better than working with Google.

When I first joined this forum many moons ago, there was a forum for Alta Vista. I kept complaining about them, as did other webmasters. There were many that continued to defend AV, but slowly AV became less and less important. They didn't update as often, and people pretty much turned to other sources. It started with webmasters, but soon propogated throughout the web community.

IT IS STARTING with webmasters right now AND Google is already becoming less important. I predict this trend to continue.

ALSO, if you look at my posts here at WebmasterWorld, you will see that I have been a longtime fan of Google. I would very much like to continue to have this attitude, because this company has done so much for the web.

HOWEVER, with no communication from the top, no PageRank updates, and a filter that clearly targets Adwords spending , I am convinced there is going to be major problems with this search engine for a long time to come.

REMEMBER, most things on the web start with webmasters, and then everyone else follows. Are webmasters saying good things about Google right now? I doubt it.

(I sure hope we see a turnaround, and I definitely hope to again become a Google fan)

rfgdxm1




msg:118969
 6:01 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

>FACT: GoogleGuy is inactive here at WebmasterWorld

Where have you gone Googleguy, lonely Webmasterworld posters turn their lonely eyes to to you. What's that you say, Mrs. Robinson? Googleguy has left and gone away.

Liane




msg:118970
 7:25 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

dvduval. You need to take a break and calm down. What will be will be!

Accept the fact that since the IPO, GoogleGuy is gone and may not return to WebmasterWorld. He's disgustingly rich nowadays so why should he bother with the riff raff? ;)

Ignore your tool bar ... it is (for all intents and purposes) completely useless these days. Maybe funtionality and usefulness will return ... maybe it won't.

Go to your favourite pub, enjoy a few drinks with your friends, set about writing four new pages for you web site ... and only when they are completed and up on the web should you even consider looking at your site ranks, WebmasterWorld or anything to do wth the site(s).

A break is required! Perhaps a trip to Vegas is in the offing! :)

Tip: If you build it ... he will come!

phantombookman




msg:118971
 7:45 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Great Post DVD - says it all

I have no idea what Google plans for the PR indicator all I would say is that..
The only people that are interested in (or even know about) PR are the people Google feels they are doing battle with.
I know countless people dealing on the net etc in my area and I have never met anyone (outside this forum) who has even heard of PR!

Instead of filtering and penalising sites with a broad brush G should concentrate its efforts on an algo that can detect quality content and reduce the value of links. If the only way to SEO for Google was to increase the quality of your content then filters etc would cease to be relevant.

outrun




msg:118972
 9:38 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

It seems highly unlikely Webmasters can sway the public to use another search engine just because it isnt Publicly updating PR, im building a hobby site with some friends and I was trying to explain PR to them they were uninterested and didnt care. This is the same sentiment received from people I have developed websited for. If I told them to stop using google because something irrelevant to them is not being updated I don't think they would listen, to them the result google are throwing at them are relevant.

I know this is rehashing, but back in the days when Altavista was king I built a site and put relevent keywords in title and meta tags and I was happy, the only reason I switched not because I couldnt achieve number 1 results for websites I was monitoring, not because they weren't updating as often, but because there was something better and Altavista results as we all know were getting useless.

Google is still giving majority of people relevant results, that being said so is a lot of the other search engines. But until something better comes along or Google really begins returning Apples for Oranges I think Google will have a stronghold in this market for some time.

regards,
Mark

Crush




msg:118973
 9:45 am on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

GG's first post :)

[webmasterworld.com...]

Mr_Roberto




msg:118974
 5:58 pm on Sep 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Every Tom, Dick and Harry will now be able to say that buying links on their site will increase your PR.

"but how would I know that without the green bar?"

By doing a middling amount of quality research; or by blindly guessing. And it doesn't matter. You just want to ignore the fact that people do buy PR now. They do. Of those who do, 98% buy PR to get PR, not steak knives.

Removing the display would simply increase the value of PR.

This logic is pretty vexing. If I'm in the market for a Porsche and am willing to pay big bucks for one, that doesn't mean I am willing to pay big bucks for a large box that may or may not contain a Porsche.

Methinks you might have a vested interest in keeping the toolbar PR around and are trying reverse-psych Google into not removing it ;)

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