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Will this help my SE rankings?

 11:07 am on Sep 16, 2004 (gmt 0)

I read somewhere that placing 1 - 2 text links in the pages of my website that link to top ranked sites by Google (for the same keyword) will help my SE rankings.

I also read that anchor text of these links need to include my keywords.

Will doing such thing on each page of my site help my SE rankings?



 5:14 am on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks, WBF. Maybe we're seeing a little skewing of hub vs. authority scoring.

That said, I've seen a number of those scraped directory type pages linking and set up for "keyword phrase local areas" and it doesn't seem to be working for those, not the junky ones. The sites in that niche are very area specific where optimization is concerned - and in fact, is one of the specific type of sites discussed at length here right after Florida that got hit on local search terms.


 11:47 am on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

G) Outbound Links:
From every page, link to one or two high ranking sites under that particular keyword. Use your keyword in the link text (this is ultra important for the future).


This was from Bret's Successful Site in 12 Months with Google Alone

This article is over 2 years old but it works. If your outgoing links help the visitor find quality information, Google will reward you.

Certainly Google's algorithm presently contains elements of the original PageRank formula as well as the hub and authority elements of the Hilltop paper.

Therefore, to increase a page's relevance,
-get inbound links from on-topic pages, esp. expert pages
-link out to on-topic pages that are expert documents or on-topic hubs

The Web is built on hyperlinks. Links in matter, links out matter, period.

I would say, that as a rule, two pages with equally relevant content, and equally relevant backlinks, i.e., all things being equal, EXCEPT one of those pages links out to an expert on-topic page, the page that links out will rank higher.


According to Hilltop, they have equal content, they have equal 'authority' scores (inbound link structure), but the one linking out to the expert on-topic document has a higher 'hub' score.


 4:18 pm on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

I know out-bound links can help!

I wouldn't have believed it myself until I saw a Spam page that was full of keyword links to on-topic domains. It was mainly a doorway refresh page to another domain, so the page rank was not lost on the main target domain.

Personally, if it helps my visitors, I link to other sites that I feel deserve the links. I try to use the links within my sentences. I don't think it hurts my PR much at all if it makes my page(s) more valuable to my visitors, thus making them more popular and linked to more often.

Content, content, content...


 4:34 pm on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

I agree with ogletree. I ran an experiment on my site recently. When I had outbound links to the top 'authority' sites my rankings went up within a few weeks. I got to thinking that some of my own pages that were similar were also doing well and probably viewed as 'authority' and had top rankings. I changed my outbounds to link to my own pages and the pages I linked from jumped to the top. Worked well for me. I repeated this throughout the site where links made sense (similar products). Let's just say traffic has increased.



 4:36 pm on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

You can always tell when a G update is in progress - you do a search, and you get a book from Amazon that will give you the info.

It's not a websearch though - is it!

You've got to buy the bl*oody book first.

So, in the interim, does anyone on WebmasterWorld have advice on how to avoid home-made bread being a little doughy in the middle?

p.s. Brett Tacky seems to have the answer to everything - and also that Google mechanic who has since expired since the sale.

Solution to doughy bread anyone - or a search term to avoid an Amazon link?


 4:52 pm on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

I like to link to related sites as part of effort to help with theming.

If I have a page reviewing Big Harry Widgets and link to the top 3 Harry Widget Manufacturer sites, it seems that Google starts showing those sites when I do a related: search.

That's good enough reason for me.


 5:20 pm on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

In our experience, linking out to authoritative high PR pages on your topic/product certainly helps. A while ago, we added a link to the highest ranking + high PR external page from our site's product pages, and it has certainly helped our rankings dramatically! Just 1 or 2 links are fine, plus try to link out to the specific topic page, rather than the external site's home page.


 5:26 pm on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

WBF's response is dead on:

It amazes me that people post that they are tired of seeing directories come up in the SERPs and then post that there is no evidence that outbound links can improve one's rankings.

I have done no extensive testing with outbound vs. no outbound, but I can tell you from eyeballing it and my gut feeling is that it does in fact help.

It certainly doesn't hurt.


 7:27 pm on Oct 3, 2004 (gmt 0)

Whilst I can't provide evidence as to whether outbound links have a positive effect I find it suprising people are willing to state categorically that they don't.
As pointed out there are plenty of reasons for rewarding quality outbound links - the content of the web doesn't reside on one site but many which are interlinked by...

Anyway I thought it had already been decided wayback that linking out helped. Isn't that half of the Hilltop theory.

Also as pointed out previously there seem to be lots of spammy directories doing quite well in the SERPS with no obvious other reason.

It's pretty hard to do a controlled experiment but I've definitely seen pages ranking on anchor text for outgoing links. I saw this when PR was still up to date and these weren't high PR pages.

What I would say though is don't just link to pages that rank high in the SERPS, make sure they are quality as well.


 12:23 am on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

Here's a distillation of what I read in this thread and a question:

If I want to create a page that ranks highly for “widgets” I write good original content about widgets with distributed kw density. I title the page “widgets”, add an H1 tag “widgets”. I place a few (say 6 links) on that page using a variation of the anchor text “widgets” and point 3 links to other highly ranking sites for “widgets” (linking to specific "widgets" related pages, rather than to the external site's home pages) and 3 internal links to pages with content about and sharing the keyword "widgets". I vary the anchor text for these 6 links but am sure to include the word "widgets". I also get a few backlinks to that page using the anchor text “widgets”. Presto!

Okay - so how do I determine which page on an external "target" site do I link to? If I use the site:www command will the top results be the pages that G values most highly on those sites? I did this and found a high percentage of the top pages returned were Site Map pages. Any other approaches?


 12:32 am on Oct 4, 2004 (gmt 0)

One of my major competitors, set up a big links campaign, got tons of links, but was not ranking super well, I suspect because of linking to some not so hot sites, and from a level of pr drain.

They changed to a php/redirection type links manager(so effectively they now have no outbound links as for a SE are concerned) and now their site is top ranked in my country for their target market.

They have subdomained, by region eg.regionname.comain.com and these subdomains also rank well in their regions.

Needless to say, being a bit #*$!ted by this, I am about to send a bulk email to all their link parters advising what they have done.

Point is. Giving out links seems to me add little benefit, except gaining you links in. If you get the links in, then remove the links out, you remove your overall loss of PR and the risk of linking to spamming sites. But do it like this site has, and you risk a competitor like me coming along and kicking down the house of cards.


 3:17 am on Oct 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Giving out links seems to me add little benefit

Yes, but still add some benefit.

I seem performed unintentinonal pure experiment. The result was PR2. Not impressive but positive.

See message #13 in this thread for details.



 3:27 am on Oct 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

Reply to Marcia post.

That PR2 isn't because of the outbound links. The PR2 comes from calculating the value of inbound links to the page.

I checked with Yahoo link: search. Even now there are no inbound links except from my site. But at the time when this page got PR2 all links to it from my site had PR0 and only more than month later other pages got PR4 without infulence on the rank of the page in question (it is still PR2).

So I still beleave it is pure experiment and *small* PR for the page with no inbound but good outbound links is possible.



 5:43 am on Oct 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

See message #13 in this thread for details.

The conclusions you ahve drawn have no real basis. Inner links pages, are less likely to have their pr removed, as they are indexed less often.

It is just as likely, your pages closer to home, were busted for doing something wrong, pr removed, then fixed so pr readded.

Or any other number of explanations.

I am nto saying that links out have no value, just they ahve the potential to ahve harmful effects as well, whereas NO links out has no harmful value.


 8:58 am on Oct 5, 2004 (gmt 0)

nippi send out those emails!
I hate sites that offer link exchanges but only give you a worthless redirect link. Actually changing this after the fact is really out of order.


 1:02 am on Oct 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

The conclusions you ahve drawn have no real basis. Inner links pages, are less likely to have their pr removed, as they are indexed less often.

It was new page and initially had PR0. Even now it has no inbound links and still had PR2. It got PR2 when all inner links to it had PR0. Seems pure experiment.

It is just as likely, your pages closer to home, were busted for doing something wrong, pr removed, then fixed so pr readded.

It is possible but does not explains why the page with no inbound links and PR0 for inner site links to it got PR2.

I am nto saying that links out have no value, just they ahve the potential to ahve harmful effects as well, whereas NO links out has no harmful value.

Most seems agree that good relevant inbound links has positive effect at least on SERP.

Bad out bound links are indeed dangerouse but why to use them?



 1:24 am on Oct 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

<pls delete>

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