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Sporadic PR Updates?
Hanu




msg:90367
 4:22 pm on Sep 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

If I'm correct there hasn't been any PR update in the past six weeks or so. Four weeks ago I relaunched one of my sites. The URL of all pages except the homepage changed and all internal pages got PR0. Today I realized that two of my internal pages had PR. The very first two links on the homepage point to these internal pages and they represent translations of the homepage. I thought PR was assigned only during PR updates. Why did Google assign PR to these two pages only and why did this happen between PR updates?

Minor details:

The homepage has two URLs and both have the same PR:

[domain.com...] and [domain.com...]

The other two pages that have PR are

[domain.com...]
[domain.com...]

and their PR is one less the PR of the homepage. The '?&' is caused by our CMS. I'm afraid to fix it right now because I want to be sure my pages are included in the next PR update.

 

rfgdxm1




msg:90368
 8:51 pm on Sep 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

>If I'm correct there hasn't been any PR update in the past six weeks or so. Four weeks ago I relaunched one of my sites. The URL of all pages except the homepage changed and all internal pages got PR0. Today I realized that two of my internal pages had PR. The very first two links on the homepage point to these internal pages and they represent translations of the homepage. I thought PR was assigned only during PR updates. Why did Google assign PR to these two pages only and why did this happen between PR updates?

Personally, I wouldn't assume what the toolbar shows is what the algo is using at the moment for PR. I have a hunch Google has intentionally made these different to try and confuse the heck out of SEOs. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain. Umm...I mean pay no attention to that PR display on your toolbar. ;)

glitterball




msg:90369
 12:52 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am not so sure that the PR that is displayed in the toolbar is meaningless.
Any new pages that I have launched since the last PR update are still PR0 (they are all now cached by Google) and therefore aren't doing too well in the SERPS (even when searching for complete sentences that are in the new pages).

At the moment the only reason as far as I can see these pages should be so far down in the SERPS is that the PR has not been updated in a long time.

GranPops




msg:90370
 1:00 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Last PR update was June 23

In my view, a toolbar PR0 could be e.g. a PR4 with the equivalent SERPS.

Sometime after being cached, a page will have the correct PR depending on structure and links, even though one may have to wait 1, 2 or even 3 months for the toolbar to show.

swampscrapper




msg:90371
 1:50 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I recently relaunched an industry leading site with PR7 and created new SES URL's to remove the "?" throughout the site as well as integrating a comprehensive site map.
This was done over the past 6-8 weeks and none of the new URL's have page rank as yet. As a result my client's traffic has decreased from Google and the client is more than a bit concerned.

I just keep telling them to be patient and that the hard work we've done will be rewarded as the site really does offer quality content and we have not employed any tricks or spamming tactics.

I hope there is a PR update soon!

Macro




msg:90372
 2:07 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

rfgdxm1, I don't think it's fair to assume that he doesn't know about toolbar PR not being the same as internal PR. This common PR mantra keeps getting dragged out irrespective of what the PR thread is about :(

If this thread is about unusual PR updating activity I'm curious to see what others have to say about that. Google Directory PR does give a small indication as to where sites may go in the next update (please, nobody explain that sites don't have PR - we're talking home pages here). But if Google has changed the way it updates PR (again) that is news to me.

rfgdxm1




msg:90373
 2:49 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

>If this thread is about unusual PR updating activity I'm curious to see what others have to say about that. Google Directory PR does give a small indication as to where sites may go in the next update (please, nobody explain that sites don't have PR - we're talking home pages here). But if Google has changed the way it updates PR (again) that is news to me.

But what do you mean by "PR updating"? What the toolbar shows, or what the algo in fact is using for PR? If you want to focus this thread on possible changes on how Google is updating PR, then I'll ask the readers here the following. Does anyone here have a site where the on page content hasn't changed at all in a long time, currently shows low PR, but has also fairly recently picked up some links from very high PR page, such as multiple PR6s, or a PR7? Such sites would be quasi-experimental example to test if displayed toolbar PR is different than what the algo is using. If the PR the toolbar displays is lagging behind what the algo uses, then with sites like I mention above I would expect that they would jump up in the SERPs before they show higher PR on the toolbar. Particularly so for extemely uncompetitive SERPs that the home page be a match for just because this combination of words happens to appear in the visible text. If all a page has going for it is high PR, this just won't cut the mustard to rank well for any SERP people are trying to rank well for. However, high PR goes a long way with totally non-competitive SERPs.

GranPops




msg:90374
 3:39 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

rfgdxm1

"a site where the on page content hasn't changed at all in a long time, currently shows low PR, but has also fairly recently picked up some links from very high PR page, such as multiple PR6s, or a PR7"

There you go again being both logical and scientific, you'll confuse the hell out of some of these guys

Yes a PR7 link to a PR0 page

No.1 in G

donovanh




msg:90375
 3:43 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have a site that I set up 2 months ago, and it has had many pages indexed by google and ranks reasonably well for a lot of searches. It's definitely not behaving like a pagerank 0 site IMHO, yet that's what the toolbar shows.

dvduval




msg:90376
 3:50 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Definition of sporadic: Occurring at irregular intervals; having no pattern or order in time.

I would say the answer is yes.

rfgdxm1




msg:90377
 3:59 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

>There you go again being both logical and scientific, you'll confuse the hell out of some of these guys

LOL. Blind them with science. :)

>Yes a PR7 link to a PR0 page

>No.1 in G

This is the sort of evidence that I am looking for. PR0 pages don't tend to rank well in Google, and if one has a known PR7 page linking to it and rockets to #1 in the SERP, this suggests the PR the algo is using is different than what the toolbar shows.

Macro




msg:90378
 4:08 pm on Sep 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

If all a page has going for it is high PR, this just won't cut the mustard to rank well for any SERP people are trying to rank well for

rfgdxm1, <sigh> nobody is arguing that visible PR is the same as the PR the algo is using; we are not even arguing that PR is the be all and end all of ranking high in SERPS. Any experiments to prove any of that is immaterial from the point of view of this thread's original post which does not beg any explanations of how toolbar/PR works if it does work and/or it's relevance in search results.

Back OT, has anyone seen individual internal pages gaining PR recently (since the last "update")? If so then are we headed for no more "PR is updating" threads? i.e. is Google moving over to a continous process of updating toolbar PR instead of doing it major chunks? If it is how long is it taking between getting a high PR link and seeing the toolbar on your page move up?

rfgdxm1




msg:90379
 1:36 am on Sep 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Any experiments to prove any of that is immaterial from the point of view of this thread's original post which does not beg any explanations of how toolbar/PR works if it does work and/or it's relevance in search results.

The problem was that the phrasing of the OP was ambiguous. To me, PR means "that value that the Google algo uses to rank pages" and NOT "how many green pixels are there on my toolbar?" I was quite aware of the existence of something called PageRank long before there was such a thing as the Google Toolbar, and that quite obviously microsoft.com had more of this PageRank thingy than the homepages of teenagers. Given that it seems apparent that algo PR and toolbar PR now update at different times, may I suggest that when people post about PR that they make it clear which of the 2 they refer to? For those who would argue that the only PR anyone can know about is what the toolbar shows, this just isn't so. If I have a page with a toolbar PR of 2, and I get a new inbound link to that page from a toolbar PR8 page with few outbound links, likely it will be all kinds of obvious from the SERPs for that page of mine when the algo PR is updated.

lgood123




msg:90380
 2:20 am on Sep 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

I completely overhauled my entire site, including the home page about 3 weeks ago. I also picked up a few links from high pr sites. The site is a pr4, but has climbed steadily over the past 3 weeks for my most important keywords. I believe it is not only do to the high pr sites, but the reciprocal link exchange program i began about 3 months ago. Before this time, the site could not be found in the SERPS at all. Now it is # 50 out of over 17,000,000 results for my most important and competitive keyword. It is climbing by leaps and bounds and has climbed more than 60 places over the past 3 weeks.

Macro




msg:90381
 7:18 am on Sep 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

The URL of all pages except the homepage changed and all internal pages got PR0...
Why did Google assign PR to these two pages only and why did this happen between PR updates? ...
and their PR is one less the PR of the homepage

I understood that to be about toolbarPR.

Macro




msg:90382
 8:26 am on Sep 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

In the absence of a qualifier I suspect when people refer to PR they usually refer to the visible portion i.e. toolbar.

may I suggest that when people post about PR that they make it clear which of the 2 they refer to

That is a reasonable request and would make things clearer, definitely. Perhaps TPR as a shortcut? (APR and DRP could be used for algo and directory PR respectively)

george123




msg:90383
 8:53 am on Sep 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

that PR mantra goes on 3 months now,i just close my eyes and see the brain guys of G reading our forums and lough ,i bet you they betting who's from us is getting closer to understand there algo's and tricks.LOL.

Hanu




msg:90384
 9:23 am on Sep 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Macro, thanks for keeping the thread on topic. I am aware of the fact that TPR and APR are not the same. I think there are two differences: One is time, the other is scale. Regarding time, I have noticed TPR lagging behind APR. In one occasion I have noticed, APR lagging behind TPR. I think it was two or three PR updates ago, but I'm not sure. Regarding scale, TPR is rumored to be logx(APR), x being a debatable number.

I don't think TPR is total scam, though. Apart from the above two differences, TPR seemed pretty consistent to me: APR update of all pages, APR factored into serps, TPR Update.

I also seem to have noticed that the PR update algo has been changed some time ago to go only so far to new, internal pages of a site, traversing deeper into a site every time PR is updated. This affected APR and TPR as well.

-- Hannes

matrix_neo




msg:90385
 5:29 pm on Sep 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have noticed another back link update today. Anyone else noticed? One of my site went from 104 to 175 almost all links are from the same site, this site is just two months old and facing first pr update.

internetheaven




msg:90386
 8:00 pm on Sep 11, 2004 (gmt 0)

Those of you in this thread who are praying for a PR update so that you'll jump in rankings are going to be sorely disappointed I'm afraid. I have four new sites that have been indexed after the last PR update and have no PR - (that's PR0 not greybar). Rankings for the majority of the pages is good - top 1-30. I wouldn't expect them to jump more than a couple of places after a PR update especially as most of my competitors will also be expecting a PR boost.

So if your site is languishing down in the 100's, I'd get to work on other things rather than sit and wait for a Google PR update that might never come.

Bonusbana




msg:90387
 12:45 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

I noticed big time backlink updates today, one of my recent sites went from 1 to 200 backlinks in one day. Also related updates. Still no PR though...

carneddau




msg:90388
 8:03 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi,

I noticed a minor PR update on my site yesterday.

The home page (index.php) has gone from PR5 to PR0 whilst the root / is still reading as PR5. Could this be Google dropping one in favour of the other? Most of the site's links point back to index.php so it's a little confusing that it now has PR0.

The site is still getting the same level of traffic so I'm not worried about any kind of penalty. I assume that this will resolve itself with the next PR update.

Anyone else seen this?

Macro




msg:90389
 8:24 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

I noticed a minor PR update on my site yesterday.

At last an on-topic post :)

(I don't know just what it is about PR that sends everyone off the rails)

You heard the man: Anyone else seen this?

surfgatinho




msg:90390
 9:41 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Can't say anything has changed for me.
All my older sites show the same PR and all the new ones show PR 0.

I'm also not too sure why people are talking about toolbar PR changes and increases/decreases in traffic.
What Google use to rank sites is not the PR we are seeing in the toolbar.
If/when we do see a change I'm pretty sure it will be reflecting somehting that happened a while back.

Pass the Dutchie




msg:90391
 9:48 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

One of my sites first indexed back in March 2004 gained a PR7 by June. Dmoz quickly indexed the site by July as a PR7 site. Since then the site dropped back to a PR5 in Google and has stayed that way since. A couple of weeks back DMOZ showed he same site with a PR6 yet Google still display it as PR7. Who's leading who, the carrot or the donkey?

raptorix




msg:90392
 9:51 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Backlink updates here also.

Bobby_Davro




msg:90393
 10:57 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had a relatively new site go from PR0 to PR4 two days ago.

Pass the Dutchie




msg:90394
 11:00 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

Bobby-Davro

What is relativly new and is it in DMOZ?

george123




msg:90395
 11:00 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

i noticed that a competitor lost all his BL's ,good update

webmktg




msg:90396
 11:35 am on Sep 13, 2004 (gmt 0)

I can't see any changes.

This 43 message thread spans 2 pages: 43 ( [1] 2 > >
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