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Link campaign penalty
matrix_neo




msg:56689
 10:30 am on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have hired a a person for link development and this particular site is more than one and half year old and also another site new and fully crawled. This person has collected 3000 plus potential link partners and sent out link request this month and we had 30% success rate. So 800 links for each site ranging from pr1 to pr4. Now sand box will be triggered for sure? If so what will be the effect on my old and new sites? Is there any chance of penalisation? However I have not done anything wrong.

 

shri




msg:56690
 1:41 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Would love to add to this with a couple of questions.

What triggers a sandbox / dampening type penalty?

Is it a sudden increase in number of links?

glengara




msg:56691
 2:01 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

From what I've gathered, it's not at all cut and dried, massive increase in links can be a factor, but if they're all from different domains they may not get sandboxed.

The older site would be the one to watch, if the ranking goes up it would suggest no sandboxing, assuming they're using your KW as anchor text of course....

Craig_F




msg:56692
 2:23 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I don't get how Google could sandbox for a lot of links from one site. Seems odd that if some site I don't know, but that likes my site and links to me in their template, that happens to go across their entire site (say 15,000 pgs), I get dumped into the sandbox? Seems like a good number of site would be hurt unecessarily.

matrix_neo




msg:56693
 2:28 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

From what I've gathered, it's not at all cut and dried, massive increase in links can be a factor, but if they're all from different domains they may not get sandboxed.

The older site would be the one to watch, if the ranking goes up it would suggest no sandboxing, assuming they're using your KW as anchor text of course....

That sounds encouraging, All links are from different sites, Many of them are one way links and they are linked with out key words however more than 40% are keword links. I thought I would be sandboxed for sure and loose the current traffic too for the old site. Any difference in the sandboxing period for the old and new site?

What triggers a sandbox / dampening type penalty?

Probablly Search term penalty. I mean using the anchor text here. Get penalised for those sudden anchor text? But all links are legitimate.

Haecceity




msg:56694
 2:51 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I don't get how Google could sandbox for a lot of links from one site. Seems odd that if some site I don't know, but that likes my site and links to me in their template, that happens to go across their entire site (say 15,000 pgs), I get dumped into the sandbox? Seems like a good number of site would be hurt unecessarily.

As I understand te sandbox effect it is a probationary period for new links, not a penalty against sites. So if someone gives you 15,000 new links from one site your site won't drop, but it also won't benefit, at least for some unspecified period.

I'm open to correction of course. My main source for this came from searching for "Google sandbox" in Google. Look for an article titled "Google Sandbox Effect Revealed".

Haecceity

MHes




msg:56695
 2:51 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Seems odd that if some site I don't know, but that likes my site and links to me in their template, that happens to go across their entire site (say 15,000 pgs)"

All from the same ip? They will be ignored as part of the template or seriously dampened... imho

My understanding is New links are sandboxed, the quantity probably doesn't matter or trigger it. There are many reasons why a new site may get loads of new links in... it may be a great site!

matrix_neo




msg:56696
 3:00 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

As I understand te sandbox effect it is a probationary period for new links, not a penalty against sites.

Good Point. But isn't true that during the sandbox period site will suffer rankings regardless to the new links. I isn't the quality of the sandbox itself once it is triggered?

Powdork




msg:56697
 4:08 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

But isn't true that during the sandbox period site will suffer rankings regardless to the new links. I isn't the quality of the sandbox itself once it is triggered?
During the sandbox period your new links won't give you any benefit but your OLD site should continue to rank as before. The NEW site also will continue to rank as before, which is not at all.
MHes




msg:56698
 5:07 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Or...

The new links will have only a small effect, which with age increases. We have seen a slow rise in the rankings as a site gets more established.

graywolf




msg:56699
 5:58 pm on Aug 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

There are many reasons why a new site may get loads of new links in... it may be a great site!

A perfect example of this would be the JibJab thing that was so hot a few weeks ago.

WebFusion




msg:56700
 2:29 am on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

We have seen a slow rise in the rankings as a site gets more established.

Have to agree with that. Our (one year old) site has been acquiring on-topic links at the rate of about 20 or so per month, and has started to slowly rise out of the (400+) serps-cellar, at a rate of 5-10 places every 2-3 days. Be it the "sanboxing" of new inbounds or whatever, there is finally light at the end of the [google] tunnel ;-) Luckily, MSN/Yahoo has never stopped loving us ;-)

matrix_neo




msg:56701
 6:17 am on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

Some posted that there was a link update in the first week of this month with out pr update. But I did not notice any back links or pr updation for any of my site. Was that update universal? or partial? Can any one predict about the link and pr updates?

union_jack




msg:56702
 10:17 am on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

I really dont understand sand boxing,can you explain.

I had a site of some 25,000 pages,many of my keyword pages were appearing between 5 and 10, i did a lot of work and added 20,000 pages of content. Ii linked were relevant back to my keywords pages. 6 weeks ago or so my keyword pages went from 20 links to 3000 and my home page from 450 to 5,000 i was overjoyed i thought at last i was making the break through. What happens my index page disappers, this has since come back but not as high and all my keyword pages completley disappear. Is this sand boxing, if so is there a time scale or is that it i am i sunk.

To try and get back my old postions i am exchanging links with sites relevant in some small way to my site, will this make matters worse.

Can anyone tell me do i need to look for another job( I am being serious i am not making a dime now) or should i hang in there.

Thanks Guys

matrix_neo




msg:56703
 10:29 am on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hang in there for sure with those 25000 pages of quality content. I believe you are not suffering sandbox. Probablly something else because during sandbox you don't loose serp positions and you dont gain anything too. Basically you are not given the benifit of those newly aquired links thats all.

Buckley




msg:56704
 11:12 am on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

How Long does this probation period last for new links before you recieve the benefit from having those links?

Thanks.

MrSpeed




msg:56705
 1:29 pm on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

How Long does this probation period last for new links before you recieve the benefit from having those links?

ALso is there a certain number of new links that triggers it? If I get 1 new link is it sandboxed? How about 10, 50, 1000?

union_jack




msg:56706
 1:46 pm on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

Can someone please tell me why Google penalizies you for getting new links, when the whole of the web is based on linking and secondly why do they allow sites with thousands and thousands of internal links and thousands of links from sites which are quite obviously the same orginazation to rank well and not only that but to stat no1.

matrix_neo




msg:56707
 2:19 pm on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

1)How many links that trigger sandbox effect?
2)How long to get out of sandbox?
3)What are the facts that make sit long in the sandbox?

My speculations are:
a) Amount of newly aquired links since google has to work on those links to find out whether they are legitimate. So more the links longer in the sandbox

b) New sites will take more time compared to old sites as they are short of credibility.

c) More number of oneway links may delay your way out as they may come from the different sites of a same owner.

MHes




msg:56708
 2:52 pm on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

union_jack

"Can someone please tell me why Google penalizies you for getting new links"
No penalty. Google is bombarded with new sites, so they are taking their time in allowing them an instant presence. New links are being subdued to deter buying links (stops instant effect) and/or to just check them out. They may be watching for 'unnatural' patterns. Many new links, whatever the pr value, will never have an effect on ranking if they are off theme... re local rank.

"why do they allow sites with thousands and thousands of internal links and thousands of links from sites which are quite obviously the same orginazation to rank well and not only that but to stat no1. "

Internal links are counting for less and less. I think google is addressing this problem, all be it in a slow but methodical way. Communities of sites owned by a webmaster are being found :)

glengara




msg:56709
 4:14 pm on Aug 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

The question I'd like to clarify, (fat chance) is whether G shows the links while they're sandboxed.

I'm looking at two examples of sites that use more or less run of site links, these links show up in G alright, but appear to have had little or no effect.

Webdetective




msg:56710
 12:32 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

What if you're doing traditional reciprocal links for multiple domains you own, but most end up being the same link partners you've used for your other sites? Can that ever be a problem?

This pattern is common in tight niches where there is a shortage of related quality sites who are exchanging links.

I have gained link popularity from completely unrelated links, including some pill sites, so maybe unrelated sites aren't always a bad idea where related links are hard to find.

lazycat




msg:56711
 5:27 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

So, assuming such a thing as a sandbox effect does exist...what exactly does this mean in real terms for a webmaster?

I'm about to put a new site online within the next couple of days.

Before I had heard of a sandbox I would have immediately submitted to all the usual directories and then gone about hunting out links etc.

What now if there's a sandbox effect?

a) Keep seeking out as many relevant inbound links as possible for the next couple of months in the assumption that when the time comes you will leap up the rankings to where you would have been had there been no sandbox?

b) Build inbound links slowly in the hope of avoiding getting sand in your shoes...assuming that it's getting a load of links at once which is the thing which triggers the sandbox thingumy?

c) Build links as before but if you see you're sandboxed move onto another project until whatever 'penalty' this is gets lifted then carry on hunting out links as before?...or does this run the risk of incurring a second sandy period?

d) Something else? Maybe just optimise for yahoo and let google continue playing in the sand...

Is the sandbox unavoidable or are there ways to either avoid it or reduce the time you spend in there? I'm genuinely confused about where to begin with this launch.

buckworks




msg:56712
 5:38 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

I would say "A". Relevant links in good places will send traffic of their own, regardless of what's happening in the SERPs.

Powdork




msg:56713
 5:49 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

A) What Buckworks said.

allanp73




msg:56714
 6:39 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

How do I get a link campaign like yours? (Sticky me)
I think these links will help not only your site's ranking but will also be good sources of traffic. Google is a fraky basket to put all of your eggs. I recommend spreading out your eggs rather than worrying that your eggs are sandboxed ;)

Imaster




msg:56715
 7:50 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

I would say "A". Relevant links in good places will send traffic of their own, regardless of what's happening in the SERPs.

- But do you think that rate at which such links are acquired matter? I think if they are acquired really fast, then even that could trigger a semi-penalty.

matrix_neo




msg:56716
 9:05 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think if they are acquired really fast, then even that could trigger a semi-penalty.

Semi Penalty? Don't give me heart attacks Imaster ;) Can you please explain that Semi Penalty.

rj87uk




msg:56717
 10:15 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think my Site got the Full on sandbox,

Im thinking because I went full on and got lots of ontopic links pretty fast :)

Im Still not fuly out, this has been around 4 - 6 months, Im getting specifics but nothing special, The site is getting around 300 hits per day and more page loads. This for a website isnt very much considering my main site gets more than 45,000 a day.

The sandbox can be very Frustrating but then agian if it will help stop spam sites is it worth it...?

matrix_neo




msg:56718
 10:22 am on Aug 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hi rj87uk,
"300 hits" If that is unique visitors or page views rather than hits. I would say you are out of sand box. Are your links 4 to 6 months old? if so you would have got some page rank atleast by now.

This 38 message thread spans 2 pages: 38 ( [1] 2 > >
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