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Moving domain with a 301
Getting penalized again.
trillianjedi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member trillianjedi us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 4:11 pm on Aug 2, 2004 (gmt 0)

We've recently rebranded and 301'd to a new domain.

I seem to remember reading here somewhere that this results in a sandboxing again (treated as a new site).

Can anyone confirm or deny?

Thanks,

TJ

 

Brett_Tabke

WebmasterWorld Administrator brett_tabke us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 9:32 pm on Aug 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

No necc so. I moved a site recently and the traffic has not moved an inch.

Birdman

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 9:41 pm on Aug 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

moved a site recently and the traffic has not moved an inch

That seems to go against the grain of what you said in the thread, apache redirects - google friendly [webmasterworld.com]. In that thread, the poster only want's to remap the same domain with 301s(I'm assuming 301). Not trying to contradict, just interested in the subject.

Marty

AndrewPeterson

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 12:48 pm on Aug 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Anyone familiar with apache and the search engines can confirm on the best line of code to do a 301 redirect?.

There seem to be a few ways to do it i.e.

RedirectPermanent / [domain.com...]
or
redirect 301 / [domain.com...]

Any preference on which to use?.
TIA

caveman

WebmasterWorld Senior Member caveman us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 1:52 pm on Aug 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Andrew, permanent and 301 both fine.

TJ, we tried it three months ago with a small site that was not well linked to, and no sign of that site yet. But, even before the so called sandbox, we sometimes saw that much time go by before recovering - if an entire site was 301'd. FWIW.

trillianjedi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member trillianjedi us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 2:04 pm on Aug 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks guys.

Since posting that, I've kind of subscribed to the idea (for no other reason that it just makes sense to me) that the "sandbox" effect, assuming it does exist and isn't just something else at work (if anything at all other than our imagination ;-)) relates to the age of inbound links rather than the age of a domain or page.

So, on that basis I suspect, and Brett seems to indicate this with his experience, that the existing links that are out of the sandbox will remain unaffected by the 301.

And the more I think about how that would work, the more it makes sense as the obvious way for google to approach teh rapid creation of inbound links problem.

TJ

Robert Charlton

WebmasterWorld Administrator robert_charlton us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 9:56 am on Aug 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

My emphasis...
So, on that basis I suspect, and Brett seems to indicate this with his experience, that the existing links that are out of the sandbox will remain unaffected by the 301.

This doesn't quite explain it, at least not in my experience. A client redid a site and went to a new company name and new domain name about 6 weeks ago. We kept the optimization the same, and I redirected the site with 301s. Most of the roughly 100 inbounds have been in place for well over a year, perhaps several years. The company makes technical software and is a leader in its field, and most of the links are from prominent sources in that field, themed, blue-chip, etc etc.

We were in the top 5 for just about all of our desired phrases. Now we don't show up in the top 100 for any of the old phrases. We do rank as #1 for the new company name.

Our Toolbar PR now shows as all white, or too low for me to detect any green.

For the inside pages, the difference could be a local rank thing... ie, we were ranking because of our internal navigation anchor text, and these might now be seen as new links.

This doesn't cover the Toolbar PR0, though, or the drop in the index page rankings, where we've left the content pretty much the same, with the inbound links established and still unchanged.

PS - I should mention that about 10 days ago I once saw the index page ranking at about #35 for our main phrase as Google picked up the new domain, but that's now dropped way down.

iProgram

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 11:09 am on Aug 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've read all 301 threads in this forum and 301ed one of my domain at May, 2004 and now a lot of pages on old domain are still indexed and new site is in sandbox. Revenue of this site decrease by 90%. Consider twice when you want to change domain name. I recommend you create a new website on another IP. (Delete the old site after a few months of cause)

synergy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 5:22 pm on Aug 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Revenue of this site decrease by 90%. Consider twice when you want to change domain name.

Been there... In March, I 301 redirected to a new domain to move away from the spammy looking 3-hyphen domain I had. It took a full 10 weeks (to the day) to show up in Google again. My revenue dropped by 80% and traffic was cut by the same. Thank goodness for Yahoo, else I would have been put out of business.

It was tough, but I'm glad i did it.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 7:17 pm on Aug 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you have two domains with the same content, then the new domain may never be listed - it is duplicate content.

You have to use the 301 redirect to tell Google that the old URL is no longer valid and to use the new one in its place.

However, many people set this up as a 302 redirect and cause themselves a big problem. Use a HTTP header sniffer to verify exactly what code is returned when trying to accesss the old site.

iProgram

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 3:39 am on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Here is my .htaccess file:
==================================================
Options +FollowSymlinks
RewriteEngine On
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ [new-domain.com...] [R=301,L]
==================================================
I also noticed some BIG website who changed their domains using duplicate content. They just added the following message on the top of old page:
The address of this page has changed to
[new-domain.com...]

Please update your links, and click here to access to ....

jdMorgan

WebmasterWorld Senior Member jdmorgan us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 4:46 am on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

The code posted above is not safe to use if both the old and new domain names resolve to the same server filespace. If this is the case, the code will cause an "infinite redirection loop."

A safe solution is to test the requested domain name, and only do the redirect if the old domain is requested:

Options +FollowSymlinks
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} ^www\.old-domain\.com [NC]
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://www.new-domain.com/$1 [R=301,L]

If you have multiple domains which all resolve to the same server, and you wish to redirect them to a single domain, a compact solution is:

Options +FollowSymlinks
RewriteEngine On
RewriteCond %{HTTP_HOST} !^www\.new-domain\.com [NC]
RewriteRule ^(.*)$ http://www.new-domain.com/$1 [R=301,L]

Refs:
Apache mod_rewrite documentation [httpd.apache.org]
Apache URL Rewriting Guide [httpd.apache.org]
Regular Expressions Tutorial [etext.lib.virginia.edu]

Jim

Powdork

WebmasterWorld Senior Member powdork us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 9:21 am on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had a site regional niche directory that grew into a regional directory so I 301'd the regional information directory of the old site to a new domain. The old links that have been 301'd do not show up as back links and the site, whose informational content used to be good enough for Google to rank #1 for many searches, is now apparently not good enough to rank in the top 100 although the pages have been indexed for quite awhile. I made the changes on June 6.
Be very aware of the dangers of switching to a new domain, even when doing it according to standard accepted practices. Unless you are tight with Google you will lose money for a while. It doesn't mean you shouldn't do it, you should just be aware of that probability.
Google's sandbox is clotted with cat poop.

Why is authoritative content which ranks #1 on one domain worth nothing when moved to a new domain? Everything was properly 301'd, the new pages have long ago been indexed and the old domain's pages have been culled from the index. GoogleGuy?

<added>As I read the first sentence, it seems confusing.
Olddomain.com/regionaldirectory 301'd to regionaldirectory.com

trillianjedi

WebmasterWorld Senior Member trillianjedi us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 10:49 am on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Our Toolbar PR now shows as all white, or too low for me to detect any green.

That's normal - toolbar PR is updated seperately to the rest of the G index.

So we may or may not get re-sandboxed. I'll keep you posted and let you know what happens. Did the switch over the other day.

TJ

scottyman

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 11:16 am on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

My experience of the 301 re-direct is a dramatic drop in search positions followed by a gradual improvement. After 3 weeks we were in better shape than before in Google. We had been cleaning up secondary domain names and making sure they pointed to the primary.

Beware of Yahoo however, ever since the change we have been out of Yahoo's index.

GreenLeaf

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 1:13 pm on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>In March, I 301 redirected to a new domain to move away from the spammy looking 3-hyphen domain I had. It took a full 10 weeks (to the day) to show up in Google again. My revenue dropped by 80% and traffic was cut by the same. Thank goodness for Yahoo, else I would have been put out of business.

Do you mean that Yahoo supports 301 better?
I'm thinking of doing the same but my main fear is that Yahoo will not transfer backlinks to the new domain.

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 1:26 pm on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo have problems following a 301 redirect, but their staff have confirmed that they are working on it.

GreenLeaf

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 1:35 pm on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

As far as i understand Yahoo 301's problem is about indexing wrong domain, isn't it?

I was told that if i set up 301 redirect Google will transfer pr and backlinks to the new domain automatically and i will not need to ask all my linkpartners to change my link.
As for Yahoo - i highly doubt that this is possible. Am i wrong?
Thanks a lot for your opinions!

ichthyous

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 1:40 pm on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I am having an issue on my site where mydomain.com has page rank but www.mydomain.com does not...would the above code transfer the page rank to either version of the page? I am worried about my SE traffic plunging if I make a mistake with this. Seeing that it's the same domain name, just with/without "www" is there still a chance of my SE placement getting wiped? Thanks

g1smd

WebmasterWorld Senior Member g1smd us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 2:33 pm on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

>> Seeing that it's the same domain name, just with/without "www" <<

Actually www.domain.com is a subdomain of domain.com just as home.domain.com or users.domain.com would be.

Yes, you need to use a 301 redirect from one to the other; usually from non-www to www.

Additionally ask as many external sites that link to the "old" one to update their links.

Google does run a process over their database every few months that attempts to rationalise the data. Search for "URL canonicalisation" in this forum or via Google for more information on this.

ichthyous

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 3:58 pm on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the info...will using a 301 redirect to merge the results cause all of my pages with "www" to take on the page rank of the non "www" pages? Will using this put me at risk of having my SE placement crash? Or is that only the case when you change domains entirely? Thanks

Robert Charlton

WebmasterWorld Administrator robert_charlton us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member Top Contributors Of The Month



 
Msg#: 25116 posted 5:05 pm on Aug 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yahoo have problems following a 301 redirect, but their staff have confirmed that they are working on it.

I heard from Yahoo that they hope for a fix "in a month."

The site I describe above, moved six weeks ago, is still ranking in Yahoo on the old domain with the old pages still cached. I can't tell about the home page... as, for whatever reason, they don't cache that page. Maybe they'll fix the problem before the site is reindexed.

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