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shift in google?
adsense sites getting a big boost?
rrl




msg:164372
 12:54 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've noticed a gradual shift toward ranking sites with adsense ads much higher. I've seen this consistently across many competitive phrases. The sites that are ranking highly are generally just a collection of ads. This morning there seems to be even more of a shift, my site which had ranked #1 for about 3 years is steadily moving down to the bottom of the first page despite the continued addition of good, unique content.

 

internetheaven




msg:164373
 6:30 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think this is a rumour perpetuated by Google themselves - "Put Adsense on your site and you just might get better rankings!"

It would not make sense to make Adsense adverts part of your algorithm as this would affect the quality of the search engine results which Google really needs to improve before MSN gets here .....

.... then again, after IPO who knows what stupid things might get into the algorithm to make a quick buck ......

trillianjedi




msg:164374
 6:36 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

SEO/SEM is an ever-decreasing slice of the internet pie. You need to be thinking in terms of googles future shareholders - that's who google are thinking about.

Informational sites need to be favoured in the SERPS. Commercial sites need to be purchasing AdWords.

Makes perfect sense to me, although I haven't yet noticed the shift/split.

Guaranteed it will happen though.

TJ

Essex_boy




msg:164375
 6:44 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Trillianjedi - exactly just what I think is happening. Sad but true

Jon_King




msg:164376
 6:49 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

No way.

GoogleGuy




msg:164377
 8:55 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Advertising with Google (AdWords or AdSense) has no connection (positive or negative) to Google's rankings.

Somebody else just cut and paste this the next time. :)

div01




msg:164378
 9:00 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I wish it were so simple...half my "sandboxed" sites would be doing a whole lot better.

bobothecat




msg:164379
 9:08 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Advertising with Google (AdWords or AdSense) has no connection (positive or negative) to Google's rankings."

Perhaps not Google's... but the rest... think the jury is still in session.

IITian




msg:164380
 9:44 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had a page ranking about 15 in a competitive key phrase. Added Adsense to it for a week or so and after deriving a few cents of revenue from it removed it two weeks ago.

Now it is ranking 4-5. Is this because I removed the Adsense or it this because I added Adsence a month ago and it took Google a month to recognize this?

Help!

ddogg




msg:164381
 10:52 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

AdSense does not increase your rankings trust me.

Marcia




msg:164382
 11:17 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>Perhaps not Google's... but the rest... think the jury is still in session.

Emphatically on the side of the jurors voting against any and all conspiracy theories.

I've got one site running AdSense, for example, that Google took a dislike to that you'd need a NASA expedition to find at Google it's so far into outer space. Sitting at #1 at Yahoo for the main KW phrase and very close for several others. There's another site running AdSense that also suffered a similar fate.

Neither is because of wrong-doing, they simply don't have the elements necessary to rank since November - they did just fine before then - with AdSense running. No conspiracy, there will be joy until they're further developed to be up to snuff, which I fully intend to see to well before the start of the next big shopping season.

Another site running AdSense is sitting at #1 for the main KW phrase at both Yahoo & Google. It also got hit hard with Florida in November but I made the necessary improvements and modifications and it came back stronger than ever. And not only does it have AdSense running all over the site, it's full of references all over the site to a forbidden field of endeavor that Google is supposed to hate and punish.

As a sidenote, I personally can't fault too much for the latter point mentioned, I'd feel the same way in their shoes. It may just be that I'm getting away with it because I'm so incompetent that I couldn't be considered any kind of a threat. ;)

blaze




msg:164383
 11:36 pm on Jul 9, 2004 (gmt 0)

Very improbably that adsense will increase but quite probable it will decrease.

This is because,

a) competitive search engines will be less excited about sending money Google's way

b) Google will use it seek out black hat websites which are SEOing just to get adsense revenue. It ties many websites together and if they interlink, it's easy for Google to see the connection.

decaff




msg:164384
 12:02 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

One thing I am seeing is a site (actually a whole series of sites that are heavily interlinked and owned by the same individual/company) ... that are creeping up the listings for the sole purpose of grabbing traffic for the Adsense Ads running on each site and each page...

The text content is horrible and I really don't see the value of a page that is identical except for the targeted content meant to spam Google's algo...very frustrating to see this occurring in a sector that is niche and has some very good "customer centric" sites running that have been there for many years.."serving the customers looking for accurate product based info and the opportunity to interact with well developed applications for purchasing products.."

This is the whole purpose of delivering relevant content..
both information based and ecommerce combined....

What to do...File a spam report?

IITian




msg:164385
 1:21 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

> that are creeping up the listings for the sole purpose of grabbing traffic for the Adsense Ads running on each site and each page...

I agree. And it is not just the new sites. Adsense program is making most of us spammers. In the long run credit for making the web almost entirely commercial might go not to the usual suspects like MS or Yahoo but to Google.

ckc1227




msg:164386
 2:17 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

What to do...File a spam report?

Thats what you should do. Much easier than making your site better or more search engine friendly.

Marcia




msg:164387
 2:28 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>Much easier than making your site better or more search engine friendly

Easier and sometimes warranted to be sure, but not the most effective way to move up in the rankings or even to maintain current rankings. Or to make revenue from a site, for that matter.

Used as a way to knock out competitors in order to increase personal rankings, it's engaging in just another type of black hat behavior. Besides, if that's all that's done, it'll be very easy to sit by and watch the good guys work on their sites and pass you by.

cabbie




msg:164388
 2:33 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Read GG's lips.
There is no effect.Should be the end of the thread!

decaff




msg:164389
 2:33 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

GG -
"Advertising with Google (AdWords or AdSense) has no connection (positive or negative) to Google's rankings."

This is not entirely accurate...if an aggressive webmaster or SEO'er wants to create a site or a series of sites that is/are designed to spam Google and game the system and then install Adsense..(or install Adsense first and then spam Google)..then what's to stop them....

What kind of quality control does Google have in place to assure that the ads being displayed on a given site are not being positioned in the SERPs using obvious spam techniques..?

Manual review..algo tweak?

Just curious how to bring to your attention the egregious technique I am watching in one of my sectors that is devaluing the user experience...while most of the other folks are building out content and apps for their user base to interact with successfully and to the benefit of Google and the info/ecommerce consumer...

By the way...these same series of sites show up at about 20% the rate to what I see at Google on Yahoo/MSN....there's no question that this person/these people is/are gaming the Google algo (as it stands)...

Of course...why would Google want to put a stop to this if it means revenue? Hard problem to solve at the algo level..

Just a concerned quality assurance type person piping in some thoughts on this subject...and one who regularly uses Google for all types of searches/research/purchasing...

thanks for listening...now back to my Tchaikovsky/Stravinsky listening fest...

gefilte




msg:164390
 4:47 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

As a humor site, mine finds Adsense ridiculous, some examples:

Parodies of George Bush have ads for Bush/Cheney 2004 gear
(Gee, can I get the flight suit?)

Parodies of Clinton of course have ads for "My Life"
(Personally, I was surprised it wasn't a pop up book)

Parodies of Colin Powell have ads for "Powell Furniture"
(Guaranteed to be non-threatening to white homes!)

One Parody had an ad for "W" Ketchup, the Republican ketchup!
(I'm not kidding, I can't make stuff up as good as these lunatics)

Mention of the genocide in Bosnia brings up "Bosnia Tours"
(Now more ethnically cleansed and lemony fresh!)

Making fun of Nazis only brings ads for Mein Kampf
(A laugh riot! - National Review)

Mocking pedophile priests - (wait for it)
-
-
-you guessed it, Papal paraphanelia
(Not recommended for small children)

Belittling extreme Right wing interpretations of the Bible - The Passion on VHS
(I hear Mel's making a version for kids - The Passion of the Easter Bunny, where he's killed by a school of rabid gefilte fish)

Oh well, I guess the humor content of my site just went up -
I should listing Google as a contributing editor. Computers have a sense of humor too.

dhaliwal




msg:164391
 5:43 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well IITan

I would appreciate if google makes the web a comercial place,

well if we are not able to earn easily by doing so much of SEO, Programming and than seeing our traffic every moment and get our website with best ever content.

Then i think we all deserve to earn big money.

If google makes it easier for content based sites to earn money, i smell nothing wrong with it.

And if they are giving boost to Adsense using sites, which i think they are not, then it might be some policy of google to earn more money.

Dhaliwal

glengara




msg:164392
 6:37 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the laugh, Gefilte....

IITian




msg:164393
 6:38 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Dhaliwal
>If google makes it easier for content based sites to earn money, i smell nothing wrong with it.

Of course, providers of content should earn to be viable. There is nothing wrong with that. Traditionally content has been marketed in forms like

1. Subscription: One provides content that people find valuable and are willing to pay.
2. Ads: Subsidize the cost of producing content (and maybe pass on the savings in form of reduced subscription rates or even provide free content) by placing ads. However, ads have to be independent of the content otherwise the content will be termed biased or even infomercial/advertisement. (many auto "reviews" fall under this infomercial category since they are written in the form of reviews but are meant to sell autos. Read the word "advertisement" printed in inconpicuous manner, required by FTC, somewhere on top of that "review.") To ward off charges of bias, many publications won't take any ads or will have ad department completely separate from the editorial department.

But, adsense is a big problem. Most of the new 'content" created that uses Adsense are either spam with no relevance but designed to place high in the serps or are infomercials. Since 'content' determines the ads that will appear even the non-spammy one tend to become informercial. Consider a review for a consumer product Y made by company X. Since company X product Y is the topic, adsence will place ads for sale of company X's product Y. If the review is negative, readers would be less inclined to click on the ads. One would expect reviews to be glowing to increase the revenue for the reviewers and that is what is happening everywhere on the web.

dhaliwal




msg:164394
 7:37 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

no dear

the contextual adverts are the best way to place ads, and industry now agrees to this.

no one will click on a casino advert on a page that is having content on yoga.

Thats why google adsense keeps big percentage cause they give us the advertisers without we trying to contact them and get refusals like we did in CJ or other networks.

And one more thing is there, you said that we should go for subscription, that makes the people pay for my content, i think its better to give them content for free and earn from adverts, instead of restricting people to pay me for reading articles, well i have tried that and people don't subscribe that much.

one thing i can suggest to adsense team is that they should make sure that sites accepted are of high quality.

dhaliwal

robotsdobetter




msg:164395
 7:51 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Read GG's lips.
There is no effect.Should be the end of the thread!

Cabbie really you shouldn't believe everything GG or Google says! Do you really think they want us to know their ranking system? Im not saying anyone is lying, but you should be more careful about things like that.

I am not saying Google does use Adsense to rank site because I really have yet to see any proof of it, but every site is suppose to be reviewed by Google it self and I think it would make sense to add it in the ranking or at least test it out to see how it works.

IITian




msg:164396
 8:01 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

dhaliwal
>the contextual adverts are the best way to place ads, and industry now agrees to this.

I don't deny this but to rephrase the chicken-egg question, which comes first - content followed by adsence ads or adsense ads followed by some filler text. I am afraid I see more than 95% sites following the second model.

Moreover, I talked about bias introduced in the content by the ads. If I am writing about Yoga, and I know that brand X yoga mat is buying Adwords and brand Y yoga mats, a better product is not spending money on it, which mat will I praise in my 'review?'

A better but more complex Adsense model is possible - but Google's current model is giving rise to spam, with sites created just for Adsense revenues. Google lacks technical skills to deal with this.

I agree with you in that Google should have higher quality criterion for the sites to be included in its program. As an example, about a month ago I received a new site to be reviewed for a directory. It had big Adsense tower on right, casino ads on top left, Amazon-affiliate link on bottom left. A page devoted to selling t-shirts. And the content? It was a 6-7 lines paragraph asking visitors to send their experience with a certain product. How did it into Adsense program?

cabbie




msg:164397
 9:43 am on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>Cabbie really you shouldn't believe everything GG or Google says!
Hi Robotsdobetter.
I just figure that its a matter where you choose to allocate your time and energy.
I have been around WW not long, but long enough to notice that Mr.GoogleGuy rarely responds definitively on how Google works unless he is 100% certain.
So I usually choose to waste my precious time on checking my stats and reading WW than on considering theories that have very little basis of fact especially when a person whom I respect for his ethics has given a unambiguous answer.
Now if GG was to tell me that people cannot hurt another persons site I would have to disagree with him.But i would also be able to show him examples where they can.:)
cheers.
p.s.Thanks as well for the laugh Gefilte.

lgn1




msg:164398
 3:11 pm on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Actually, Adwords can have a bit of an effect, but only slightly and in special cases.

In my infinite stupidness, I noticed that my site has very little anchor text for my important kewords. The anchor text in my adwords ad is thus having a greater impact, and I move up a few notches when I run an adword campaign.

Now that I have realized the importance of anchor text keywords, and will be adding some to my website, I expect the adwords to have little or no effect on placement.

BigDave




msg:164399
 4:42 pm on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Have any of you in the IPO conspiracy camp read the prospectus?

They aren't selling you stock with any sort of control, they are selling you is a ride in the back seat with the opportunity to go wherever they drive.

I suspect that you are seeing more sites at the top with adsense because more and more sites are using adsense.

claus




msg:164400
 5:04 pm on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

>> The sites that are ranking highly are generally just a collection of ads.

What GG said. This is a case of "chicken or the egg". Heavily adveritsing sites tend to be optimised more than sites that don't rely on advertiser revenue.

hutcheson




msg:164401
 7:44 pm on Jul 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

>I don't deny this but to rephrase the chicken-egg question, which comes first - content followed by adsence ads or adsense ads followed by some filler text. I am afraid I see more than 95% sites following the second model.

Yes, I suspect that you are not far off.

And yet ... I call on the oldsters among you [you know, those who remember how bad spam was on Altavista, almost like it is on the company that hired the person who stole the Altavista code ... those who walked three miles through the snow--uphill both ways--to get to the nearest telegraph office to upload your new websites ... those who remember how the net was before adsense] to say if anything has really changed. How many pathetic little pages were there with a few paragraphs of ad-hype with syntax that a literate sixth-grader would have blushed to proofread, and content at which an intelligent third-grader would have sneered "I knew that!" -- and ad banners (or affiliate links) out the wazoo?

The net is a cleaner place today: the Google text ads pose a far smaller download-bandwidth tax on the people who are so unfortunate as to have gone to one of these sites expecting to find content. But the signal-to-noise ratio is just as miniscule as ever.

This 35 message thread spans 2 pages: 35 ( [1] 2 > >
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