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Ranking well using allinanchor, nowhere to be seen without it
Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 8:09 am on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

For the most competitive phrase in my industry, if I use the allinanchor command I come in at #5/6. If I remove it, I drop out of the top 500. I am the only site in the top 10 using allinanchor which does not stay there after removing it. Any suggestions on what this is likely to be caused by?

The obvious answer is on-page optimisation, but since I get crawled daily I've played with this a few times - low kwd, high kwd, title, h tags. The only thing I havent changed yet are the meta tags, because I didn't think google put any weight on these. They currently have the keyphrase repeated once, near the beginning of both tags.

My site is shopping cart driven in asp code.

 

djgreg

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 9:12 am on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

The same thing happens with one of my sites.
I have absolutely no idea why it ranks only for allinanchor:keyword.

I have tried every type of on page optimaziation I can think of, but nothing happens at all.

Added: At the moment I tried allintext:keyword and I am on the same pretty good position as with allinanchor:
So it can't be on-page-optimaziation, can it?

greg

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 9:25 am on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Is your site a shopping site? I know that after florida, sites with a shopping cart appeared to be penalised, but many of the sites in my industry that suffered from this are now back to their former high rankings. About 5 other top 10 sites for my keyphrase are shopping sites and are unaffected.

I didn't know about the allintext command. I've just used it and found that I too rank in the same position for this as with allinanchor.

As I said, the only thing I can think of is meta tags. I have noticed that a lot of sites seem to come up with their meta description tag as their description in the serps.

Sathish

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 12:05 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

try searching for your KW followed by
-asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf

Example:
blue wigets -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf

the results would be exactly the same as the results when you use allin parameters.

my 30+ sites (both new and old) are not showing for regular search but for exclusion filters and allin paramters.

tgone

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 12:31 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

What is the allinanchor and allintext commands used for.

For my major keyword which is very competetive, I am #30 for a simple keyword search but climb up to #18 for a search using the allintext command.

What does this signify?

Sathish

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 12:50 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

What is the allinanchor and allintext commands used for.

tgone READ THIS -http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/14897.htm

ILuvSrchEngines



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 1:02 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

The premise of your post (allinanchor) as you can see has little to do with ranking in Google.

The obvious answer is on-page optimisation

I doubt it.

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 4:41 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Surely if you rank top 5 with allinanchor, allintext, allintitle and allinurl you should be top 5 in the regular serps too?

This is my current standings for the particular keyphrase:

allintext: #4
allinanchor: #4
allintitle: #4
serps: not in top 300

I tried the -fsdf search, but that doesn't make any difference now (hasn't done since a few months after the florida update).

What reason can there be for the huge difference in rankings between the allin results and the serps? No other site in the top 10 of the allin results is affected and apart from my site the top 10 is almost unchanged in the serps.

There's obviously something I'm doing wrong or missing. Do the allin commands take into account over optimisation (high kw density etc..) - although I cant see that this would be the reason for the discrepancy.

nutsandbolts

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 5:01 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Wowsers! My site only returns when using the full -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf command after the keywords.

Number three. Nice.

There must be a way around this silly filter* without having to use the -asdf 8 times! (*obviously, some people don't think it's a filter...but you know what I mean)

BigDave

WebmasterWorld Senior Member bigdave us a WebmasterWorld Top Contributor of All Time 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 5:01 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

The huge difference is that you are giving powers to the allin commands that Google never claims for them.

You also need to consider that even if the allin commands work the way you seem to think they work, which I very much doubt is the case, then you have the results of about 6 of the hundreds of factors in the algo available to you.

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 5:07 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

ah, I didn't realise that you have to use the -parameters command 8 times. Yeah, my site comes #4 with them included.

Big Dave, I appreciate your point and agree to an extent, but it seems more than coincidence that the results are almost identical with the allin commands, serps and -dfsfd -fds etc.. except for my site which is only different in the serps. #1-3 are all the same regardless of allin, -asd etc.

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 5:09 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)


Wowsers! My site only returns when using the full -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf command after the keywords.
Number three. Nice.

There must be a way around this silly filter* without having to use the -asdf 8 times! (*obviously, some people don't think it's a filter...but you know what I mean)

I know what you mean. If I appeared at #4 in the serps for this keyword I'd be looking at a huge number of visitors each day for my site. I advertise on the site ranked #1 and they get a ridiculous amount of traffic.

Sathish

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 8:33 pm on May 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

and to add more...my one month old sites (3 different sites)rank very well if I use allin command or -asdf. but not even in top 100 for the normal search. is this sandbox or just another sneaky filter?

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 10:32 am on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Interesting development for me today on this subject. Yesterday I removed the keyphrase from the title, tidied up my meta tags and broke the keyphrase up a little in the text and I've gone to #9 in the uk index and #25 in the world index today.

Thats a jump of 312 places in the UK index and who knows how many in the world index (I dont think I was even top 600). Perhaps the allintext doesn't take into account any penalties for over repetition of the keyword etc.. My rankings for all of the allin commands has stayed the same.

shahid

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 1:22 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

You should undo whatever you have done silent bob. Not just your site but many sites have come out of sandbox today. My two sites too. So try to make all the title and other phrases back to original form. Your site will be much better in a few days. Your site was not penalized , just sanboxed like many other thousands of sites like me and they all came out of it today. Check today.

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 2:04 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Will check mate. Thanks for that.

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 2:07 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Actually I might sit still for a day or two - www2 and www3 seem to knock me back down again (although only by 20 or 30 places).

jojojo

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 6:08 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

so only showing up with the -adfs x8 added but nowhere in serps - is this a penalty?

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 7:16 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've just had an e-mail from web pro world (not that I ever remember subscribing to any kind of newsletter from them) about this 'sandbox' effect actually.

They are saying its some kind of probation given to either new sites or certain links pointing to new sites. I'm sceptical though as I've had newer sites than my main one that have not suffered with the same problem. One of my sites went up last may and has always ranked highly almost from day 1.

sf22

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 7:42 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have the same problem. My site ranks #4 for a certain keyword when I use allintext, allintitle or allinanchor. But actually, its rank is #72.

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 8:20 pm on May 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

shahid,

It seems like only a partial reprieve from the 'sandbox' (its been described as being 'on probabtion). I've been checking various other keyphrases and I still dont rank as highly as I do with the -fds -fsd etc.. parameters. As I mentioned www2 and www3 are knocking me back down a bit too. Still, it is quite promising.

What I've read today suggests that links you receive are credited to begin with, then it is these links which are 'sandboxed' for a number of months - affecting your rankings. So maybe a certain amount of links have been 'un-sandboxed' in the last few days, and once all of the links you should currently have credited to you do the same, then you should attain the rightful positions. This seems to ring true for me, as when google first counted my backlinks I appeared #1 for many keyphrases. After two weeks I dropped a certain percentage (# of places dependant on competitiveness of the phrase). Now I'm climbing again. I've certainly noticed that older, more established sites have been staying strong throughout. That all sounds confusing. I'd like to post the link to the article on this as it explains it much better, but it (quite rightly as its a competitor to ww) gets auto edited out.

I'd be very interested to hear your views and experiences on this.

jojojo

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 12:40 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have sites like this that are several months old... surely they arent still sandboxed?

AthlonInside

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 12:59 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

which datacenters? or all datacenters?

Sometimes they test some new algo in certain datacenters.

Silent_Bob

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 3:21 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

The results are changing every few minutes for me at the moment. www2 and www3 are still worse for me and occasionally www shows these results. Other times I rank right near the top on virtually everything I target. Its increased our traffic about 6 fold in the last two days.

jb123

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 3:35 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm with you! My web site ranks in the top 10 and sometimes in the top 5 and sometimes #1 under the most popular keyphrases in my industry BUT ONLY when, I do a search for:

allintitle, allinurl, allintext, allinanchor or keyphrase -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf -asdf

Why is that?

I've got another question for you: if I had a toll free and a "keyword specific" slogan in my header of my web site and all of the 5,000+ pages of my website were showing up as duplicate content according to Google based on the following search site:website address and then, I changed that text in the header to be an image so, Google will move past it to the rest of the content on my pages, do you think this will solve my problems of duplicate content issue with Google and my ranking problems?

Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 3:37 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

regarding the -asdf -asdf.... filter.

I would be interested to know if you all have tried looking at your page from a semantic point of view.

I had a site that had been missing for quite a while even though it was sitting at the top when using the above type of filter bypasses.

After changing the page to incorporate some semantically supportive keywords, it found it's way to page 1 within 5 days (note..NOTHING else was changed during that time). I have since done this same thing on other sites I run and had the exact same results so it doesn't seem to be a fluke.

It seems to me that by placing the "-asdf -asdf..." after the search, you eliminate the semantic portion of the algo. Not so much a filter, just a different way of ranking the pages do to the exclusions.

coffeebean

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 3:57 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Philosopher, by semantic do you mean reducing occurences of the target phrase and adding plenty of synonyms, stemming, and related natural text?

I tried that and it didn't seem to help! What other ways could I semantically improve the page?

jb123

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 4:10 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Philosopher, I would appreciate your insight alittle further as well regarding what you meant exactly when you said semantically. Thank you!

Philosopher

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 4:32 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

Sure...do a search on google for your target phrase for the page but place a tilde (~) in front of each word.

ex. "~blue ~widget" without the quotes.

Look through the SERPs at the words Google has in bold and make a list of all of them. These are at least SOME of the words Google sees as semantically similar or supporting of your phrase.

Then incorporate these words into your pages. I have found there is a BIG difference between what I would call a semantically supportive word and what Google considers semantically supportive.

coffeebean

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 23830 posted 4:49 pm on May 10, 2004 (gmt 0)

search on google for your target phrase for the page but place a tilde (~) in front of each word

Interesting, and a great tip. Most of the words I'd already incorporated, but a few new ones came up I hadn't thought of. Thanks!

This 35 message thread spans 2 pages: 35 ( [1] 2 > >
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