homepage Welcome to WebmasterWorld Guest from 54.161.155.142
register, free tools, login, search, pro membership, help, library, announcements, recent posts, open posts,
Become a Pro Member
Visit PubCon.com
Home / Forums Index / Google / Google News Archive
Forum Library, Charter, Moderator: open

Google News Archive Forum

    
Over 500 Inbound Links
Google doesn't even credit me with 1 backlink ...
MikeBeverley




msg:109672
 2:09 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

When I query Google about 'What sites link to mine' it says that no sites link to mine. It has said this ever since the site started two years ago, my site currently has a PR4 (dropped from 5 last month). These are the qualities of the pages linking to my site:

They majority are static.
All have PageRank of between 3-7.
The majority link to www.example.com, not www.example.com/index.html or example.com
Many link to internal pages aswell.
All use my company name or relevant keywords in the anchor text.

So my question is this - 'What does Google think counts as a link to my site?'

 

olderscot




msg:109673
 2:39 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

In general, Google usually gets it right.

Stickymail me your url and I'll take a look.

Mike

pageoneresults




msg:109674
 2:56 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

If your site has been live for over 2 years and you have 500 inbound links and Google does not recognize them, there is a good chance you have a penalty attached to your site. I'm just taking an educated guess right now.

Were you ever involved in any type of link exchange program? Is it possible that you've linked to too many bad neighborhoods? There are many areas to look at when determining whether or not your site has a penalty.

Are you appearing in the SERPs for your targeted keyword phrases?

rainborick




msg:109675
 3:09 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've seen lots of opinions on this topic. Obviously, Google accounts for links that it does not record descretely. The popular wisdom is usually summarized by saying Google's link: command will only display links from pages with a PageRank of 4 or higher, but I believe Google's differentiation method has been expanded in recent months to devalue links Google considers to be of lower quality, such as links from pages whose sole purpose appears to be for link exchanges, links on BLOG pages, links in forum messages, and so on.

Call them "SPAMmy links," "unnatural links" or "garbage links" or anything you like, and I'm sure people can find exceptions to the specific examples I've mentioned, but there's unquestionably more to Google's methods in this regard than simply PageRank. However, the impact this should have on your linking efforts is not as clear-cut to me. I rarely turn down exchange requests without a compelling reason. Outbound links cost so little that I try not to overthink the issue when I get an invitation. I check for "bad neighborhood" markers and avoid sites of questionable taste, but I don't get so wrapped up in the SEO aspects that I just look for a certain PageRank, etc. I'm actually so guilty about not devoting enough time to building links that I err on the side of optimism!

BigDave




msg:109676
 3:25 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google only shows backlinks to the page, and not the site. It also generally only shows links from somewhere around PR3 or above that also meet some other qualifications.

pagano




msg:109677
 4:08 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

"... command will only display links from pages with a PageRank of 4 or higher ..."
"... It also generally only shows links from somewhere around PR3 or above ..."

Mmmmmmhhhhh ... Now I've just checked for 3 links to my site, all of them PR5, and GG never display them since mid2003.
But, in one of the page that has 1 of the 3 links (say pageA), there are other links to other sites; I check for the links to those sites, and pageA never appears in SERPs.

Is it a dangerous page? I extract from title tag a keyphrase and search in GG ... pageA is at #2 position.
When looking for the cached version of pageA, nothing is wrong: all the links are standard <a href=""> tags.

My conclusion is that there are some pages that probably have particular characteristics, and these characteristics bring GG to not display them when searching for links.
But the other question is: are that pages counted in link popularity or not?

BigDave




msg:109678
 4:18 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had written a much longer reply, but accidently closed the page.

in that longer reply was mention that Google NEVER shows all the backlinks, even those that are greater than PR4. There are many months that either My DMOZ entry or my Google Directory do not show up, and I am in a rather uncrowded PR7 category.

Link is a tool for finding some of the pages that link to your page, and that is it. It is not useful for finding every page, or finding the most important page, or figuring out the algo.

If you really want to figure out what link: is good for, use it to go look at other sites in your atea to find sites that link to your sort of site.

caryl




msg:109679
 5:20 pm on Apr 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

It is the PR from the page your link is found on that is counted, not the PR necessarily of the main page of the site.

The main page of a site may be a PR8 but the page it has links on may be a PR1.

Also, PR is diluted by the number of links on the same page as yours.

A PR5 links page with 100 links on it passes very little PR to each of those links.

MikeBeverley




msg:109680
 12:31 am on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google only shows backlinks to the page, and not the site.

I already know this which is why I said that they are linking to my main page www.example.com and not /index.html

Are you appearing in the SERPs for your targeted keyword phrases?

Yes I am, pretty good too considering the crowded market I'm in.

It also generally only shows links from somewhere around PR3 or above that also meet some other qualifications.

Again, this is already a theory being thrown around in other threads which is why I also said that these links range from PR3-7 to avoid repetitions of the 'must be over PR3' theories. Can you define what 'other qualifications' is, or were you just making a vague statement?

Were you ever involved in any type of link exchange program? Is it possible that you've linked to too many bad neighborhoods?

I should point out that I am a long term SEO consultant, I'm well aware of all the warnings Googleguy has been giving over time.
But to answer your question, no, all the sites linking to me are good quality sites who are linking to me for content. I do not believe in mass reciprocal linking, the majority of the sites linking to me I do not link back to. As for link exchange programs, I'm so against them that I helped start a small claims action against one firm for destroying a friend's website.

Link is a tool for finding some of the pages that link to your page, and that is it. It is not useful for finding every page, or finding the most important page, or figuring out the algo.

Again, this is something that is being thrown around in other threads. The reason I started a new thread was because this is a specific case - NO BACKLINKS ARE SHOWING OR HAVE EVER SHOWN from my site so all of these theories, (whereas they might apply to a newbie complaining that his new Dmoz listing isn't showing yet), doesn't really apply here.

The main page of a site may be a PR8 but the page it has links on may be a PR1.

This isn't a PR thread, this is a thread on backlinks. I'm not interested in the PR of the pages linking to me, the only reason I mentioned PR was to stop everyone screaming the 'the linking page must be over PR3' theory .... which they did anyway ..... ;)

hamster77




msg:109681
 12:47 am on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google's never been happy about showing the backlinks to my main site.

Since the site started a few years ago the number of quality backlinks has been going up as you might expect and the number of backlinks shown by Google just kept on going down. Nothing obvious, like decrease in PR on linking pages or those pages linking out to vastly more pages.

No idea why, but at one point Google had lost nearly all the links and was down to showing about 10. I would've expected at least 100 of the links to have shown up at the very least.

Last backlink update we went up to 50, so it looks like things they are a-changing at last.

I've seen quite a few sites (not mine) where Google show no backlinks and I simply don't believe they shouldn't be counted. Maybe it's a bug?

grandpa




msg:109682
 1:24 am on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm just curious, does anyone else show any backlinks? AlltheWeb (rip), Alexa?

BigDave




msg:109683
 4:10 am on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike,

First off, just because you start a tread does not mean that everything in it is about you. Threads are a discussion and replies might apply to someone else in the discussion.

Can you define what 'other qualifications' is, or were you just making a vague statement?

No and no.

Just because I do not know what those qualifications are, does not mean that it is just some random vague statement. In fact it was more of a qualifier on the first part of the statement instead of a statement to itself.

Quite obviously, Google does not show every PR4+ backlink. If PR was the only thing that qualifies a backlink to be shown, I would have about 4 times as many backlins as I do just from pages on my own site that are PR4+. So there quite simply ARE other qualifications that we don't know about.

Too often around here, people toss around the "it only shows PR4+ as backlinks" which is inaccurate unless qualified. That is what I was doing.

webnewton




msg:109684
 11:11 am on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've seen it time and again that google used to reduce the backword links during every google dance. During recent PR update this happened with my sites again.

1) PR of some sites soared, but backwords links got a significatnt cut. When i used the command "+www.domain.+com" google showed almost all the sites that were linking to my site. however link:www.domain.com showed 2-20 links variying from site to site.

2) PR of some site dropped to 0. The backwords links also droped to zero. However the command "+www.domain.+com" showed all the relavent links. With this all these sites also lost there rankings on SERPS.

I feel the cut in backword links marks the dejection of certain links as useless/fradulanet links from Google. However what criteria it uses for this cut is still unfathomable.

MikeBeverley




msg:109685
 11:25 am on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I'm just curious, does anyone else show any backlinks? AlltheWeb (rip), Alexa?

Yes, Alltheweb (and obviously Yahoo & Altavista) shows 548 and Alexa shows 231.

First off, just because you start a tread does not mean that everything in it is about you.

Sorry if you've been upset in this thread but I think you've misread. I was stating that the reason I started a separate thread and provided the information I did was to stop all the junk from the other threads filling this one. This is a unique case and example which is separate from the whole - 'Boo! Hoo! Why doesn't Google show my backlinks?' stuff that's in other threads.

As stated before, this is a two year old site with over 500 quality links to it most of which are not reciprocal, the site enjoys good rankings and yet backlinks have NEVER been shown. This is a specific case and therefore, yes, this thread is 'all about me' because no-one else is quoting similar experiences.
Threads should be kept on topic so if you want to comment on why 'Google won't show all backlinks' then all I was saying was say it in a thread where it could be useful.

MikeBeverley




msg:109686
 11:33 am on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've seen it time and again that google used to reduce the backword links during every google dance.

Again, no offense meant, but this is all stuff that should be in one of the hundreds of 'my number of backlinks keeps going down' threads that are on webmasterworld right now.

This is a specific case where Google is the only one who has NEVER registered backlinks in two years. 500 carefully selected links gained through good content rather than reciprocal linking which etc. etc. etc. .... I'm bored of saying it all.

I was hoping for someone to have an idea on possible server issues in linking (e.g. IP Based hosting over Name Based on a server causing the problem) or something rather than the repeated quotes of how Google doesn't count 'some' links. I really don't think the issue lies there due to the severity of the situation otherwise at least some of the backlinks would show wouldn't they?

BigDave




msg:109687
 3:21 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

It could be that some of us don't find it to be all that unique, or that the answers don't apply.

You were at PR5, and now at PR4. Obviously Google counted some links, probably lots of links, but they are not showing the links for some reason.

I think the standard answers *do* apply, therefore I give the standard answers.

pageoneresults




msg:109688
 3:29 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike, are you the original owner of the domain and site in question?

Based on all the replies to this topic, I'm going to go back to my original assumption that Google is discounting your backlinks due to a possible penalty. Right now it would be nice to eliminate the possibilities and penalty is one of them.

Out of all the sites I've reviewed for backlinks issues, 9 out of 10 times when Google doesn't credit your site with backlinks, there is a penalty involved. Not sure which filter you got caught up in or even if we can put a name on that filter.

If you are doing well in the SERPs, then there may be something else going on here. Maybe the particular industry that you are in, there are just too many variables involved at this point. We need to narrow down where the issues might be.

IP Based hosting over Name Based on a server causing the problem.

Can you expand on how the above would have an effect on your backlinks in Google?

caryl




msg:109689
 3:41 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

The main page of a site may be a PR8 but the page it has links on may be a PR1.

This isn't a PR thread, this is a thread on backlinks. I'm not interested in the PR of the pages linking to me, the only reason I mentioned PR was to stop everyone screaming the 'the linking page must be over PR3' theory .... which they did anyway ..... ;)

mikebeverley,

You are getting your answers, you just not NOT LIKE THE ANSWERS.

The backlinks reported by Google ARE about PR! If the page your link is on is NOT ABOVE a certain PR, Google does not return it in the results.

Whether or not you LIKE that fact, does NOT make a difference. It is simply the way Google does things.

This is not to say that Google does not give credit for ALL of your backlinks. It is just an answer as to why Google does not return them in their link:www.domain.com search

lorenzinho2




msg:109690
 3:52 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

< Again, no offense meant, but this is all stuff that should be in one of the hundreds of 'my number of backlinks keeps going down' threads that are on webmasterworld right now.

Hmmm.... so your site is different. Google has one set of algorithms and penalties that apply to millions of sites out there, and another that applies to yours.

That's an interesting theory.

For what it's worth, i would guess that your site may not be an isolated incident.

In addition to the standard replies above, i would look at things like off topic links, links coming from sites in the same ip block as your own site, links coming from sites that may have been penalized, etc.

My personal theory is that G is trying to take away the market for buying links, by removing all clues that links from filtered sites 'count.' (which, my guess is, they still do)

GG himself has said that he doesn't pay attention to the publicly displayed backlinks, as they have a much more complete set internally, or something to that effect.

Jan Shepherd




msg:109691
 5:34 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

This exact same thing happened to one of our sites, with links dwindling to nothing then gradually coming back. Still only got half the originals showing though.

Coincidently Mike I noticed the exact opposite oddity to yours for another of our sites today. One of their incoming links is on a good page, really well displayed from an SEO perspective, PR6. Yet when I do a pages with the exact match search this good link doesn't show up. I got curious today and looked at some of the other links from that page and guess what - the site doesn't record the links to anywhere. Yet when I directly searched on the page name itself, there it was in the database. So this is a site that never reveals its links on a backlink check.

No idea what it means though...lol.

If it makes any sense to you, please let me know!

Regards

Jan

mixd




msg:109692
 6:19 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

..500 backlinks from PR 5-7, yet page rank 4...

1) Don't use link farms, even if they claim to be "search engine safe"
2) Only get links from related sites
3) Don't link to unrelated websites
4) Improve your content :)

Symbios




msg:109693
 6:40 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

Usually when no backlinks show the site has a penalty despite what may show in the green bar, causes range from dodgy outgoing links, hidden text, expired domain to cloaking as prime examples.

What baffles me in your case is why your site still ranks if it has a penalty all I can conclude is that the site is not being penalised and there's some other reason for the backlinks not showing which doesn't make sense either.

I'd like to take a look if you sticky me the url as its a bit of a mystery.

decaff




msg:109694
 10:34 pm on Apr 21, 2004 (gmt 0)

MikeBeverly...

What about your outbound links (I mean off site outbound links)..? You don't mention this...and this is definitely a factor today and for some time in how Google qualifies a site ... the ratio between inbound/outbound....forget about protecting your PR...this is not valid..
What Google is fundamentally saying is, "We believe that a site should be well linked, both internally, externally (outbound) and inbound, with an on topic relevant link structure that BENEFITS THE END USER .. not your PR...this is simply an additional bonus to properly structured relationships..."

Try increasing your outbound links from each page of your site (a couple carefully placed within some well written copy with precise anchor text should assist your cause)...
again...trying to funnel PR your way will only cause you more problems then benefits...pass it around..

MikeBeverley




msg:109695
 3:44 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

the ratio between inbound/outbound....forget about protecting your PR...this is not valid..

Good point to bring up, the new 'fad' phrase in SEO is 'don't hoard your PR!' but that's not really fair of Google to use outbound links in their algorithm.

I run 'user' friendly web sites, to make sure that my 'users' get the best experience I track which links they click on using scripting, this way I can raise the level of the more popular (ergo relevant) links. This means that as far as Google is concerned the majority of my outbound links are 'invisible' to Googlebot. So whilst trying to provide the best 'user' experience I am being penalised by Google?
For all their screaming about 'making sites for users not search engines', they still expect us to focus on search engines before users with the penalties they're dishing out.

all I can conclude is that the site is not being penalised and there's some other reason for the backlinks not showing which doesn't make sense either.

Exactly how I feel! :) And no matter how many times I explain that it's not PR related or 'common' penalty related (bad neighbourhoods, spamming etc.) everyone seems to be adamant that I'm wrong ...

pageoneresults




msg:109696
 3:53 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike, are you the original owner of the site?

BigDave




msg:109697
 4:07 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike,

I don't think you have a penalty, and I think that everything is working normal.

You have 500 links. You have PR. So at least a lot of those links are being counted. They are just not being shown as backlinks, which is also normal.

When my site was last a PR5, I had several thousand PR3+ backlinks from my own site. This is not counting all the PR0-6 links that I had coming in from outside the site.

I only jumped to PR6 when I got in an uncrowded PR7 DMOZ category.

At one point, as a high PR6, with thousands of PR4+ links from my own site, and thousands of links from other sites, google was only showing 135 backlinks.

Rest assured that most of your links are counting.

MikeBeverley




msg:109698
 8:38 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Mike, are you the original owner of the site?

Yes. And as far as I know no-one else has registered that domain before me and I've had it for two years.

pageoneresults




msg:109699
 9:08 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Okay, just to be on the safe side, head on over to the WayBackMachine at [archive.org...] and check. I'd just like to eliminate the possibility that penalities are being carried over from a previous owner.

MikeBeverley




msg:109700
 9:47 pm on Apr 22, 2004 (gmt 0)

Wow! That brought back alot of memories. I haven't used Wayback for quite a while. Anyway, no, there's no other version of the site before me.

Global Options:
 top home search open messages active posts  
 

Home / Forums Index / Google / Google News Archive
rss feed

All trademarks and copyrights held by respective owners. Member comments are owned by the poster.
Home ¦ Free Tools ¦ Terms of Service ¦ Privacy Policy ¦ Report Problem ¦ About ¦ Library ¦ Newsletter
WebmasterWorld is a Developer Shed Community owned by Jim Boykin.
© Webmaster World 1996-2014 all rights reserved