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This 312 message thread spans 11 pages: < < 312 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 11 > >     
Big sites suffering no title / no snippet in SERPS
Is google penalising big sites?
cyberax

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 12:15 pm on Mar 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

As of around a week ago it seems that a lot of big sites, particularly some UK search sites, have lost a lot of their indexed pages in Google.

The pages haven't been totally removed, instead it seems that the pages exist in the Google SERPS but they have no title and no snippet and therefore no longer appear for any searches.

At first I thought this was some sort of penalty / filter to remove some of the controversial search sites from its index, but it seems this applies to other large sites, e.g. dmoz. I would estimate that dmoz has had around 200,000 pages "nuked".

Has anyone noticed this phenomenon on any other sites?

 

exmoorbeast

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 11:50 pm on Mar 18, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks Balloch....that was cool.

But, and I hate to repeat myself again, you could have built a new site and got 2 links by now.....

;-)

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 7:17 am on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Up early and checked again this morning - Going nowhere!

Where are you Google? This hurts :o(

petehall

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 10:52 am on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google just visited thousands of our pages.

I wonder if this will improve things?!

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 11:54 am on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

From the two sites I reported about a couple of days ago:

Almost all pages are indexed and about 50% are showing titles and descriptions.

I changed one of the sites around significantly, but these changes have not been picked up.

Still no links and no pagerank.

If it were a penalty, would the pages still be in the index?

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 12:03 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

I don't know if anyone knows exactly what a penalty means but apparently a grey bar on page rank is not a good sign.

I just noticed (almost noon here in the UK) that Googlebot paid my site a quick visit about eight hours ago. It had a look at my robots text file and three apparently random pages then left. The pages it looked at are still not showing any titles or cache and it did not look at my home page.

Is there any significance in this? Why would it come along and just look at three pages? Also, does anyone know if the fact that it visited my site but never added any cache info or titles is significant?

Schneewittchen

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 3:00 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

i have a similar problem. my site is "loadbalanced" on 3 servers www,www02,www03 - i use javascript for redirections from the mainpage to switch. my www.-page have lost all PR to grey scale and in serps the mainpage is not listet with title and description, only www.domain.de/index.php, this page have still PR. i think google means that is a js-redirected doorway-page. but....i have over 200 good backlinks and be listet in dmoz and yahoo with my mainpage, that cant be a problem?!

cyberax

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 3:02 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Anyone else getting a grey bar for their site?

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 3:18 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

cyberax

Nope, not seen or seeing a grey bar on the sites that are having problems.

Balloch

If Googlebot visited this morning it is to early to tell if this has done any good. If it is freshbot have a look late tonight or early tomorrow, if it was a deeper crawl bot then in my experience of current (last 3 to 4 months) crawl to index wait 3-7 days.

Good luck!

Schneewittchen

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 3:28 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

LOL, i found out now, when i disable the OD-Kategorie Symbol (the green book) in the GToolbar my PR is back again! But G means my site isnt listet in Google Directory, but that isnt real. With enabled Kategorie-Symbol the PR-Scale is still grey

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 4:47 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Dayo_UK - according to the IP it was Freshbot that visited. I checked it again just now and no further activity is evident.

Anyway, it's Friday and almost 5pm. I am going to pull the plug because I am going on the beer tonite (Local Real Ale Festival!) Google can go and Google him/herself for now.

P.S. I am thinking of starting a Scottish Search Engine called Shoogle!

Dayo_UK

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 4:55 pm on Mar 19, 2004 (gmt 0)

Balloch,

Both freshbot and deepbot have the same range of IP Addresses now, AFAIK.

Real Ale :) - Look out for a pint of Wherry if they are there - top stuff ;)

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 1:11 pm on Mar 20, 2004 (gmt 0)

How do we know the difference between Freshbot and a deep crawl then?

Incidentally I checked my logs again today and noted that the bot had visited and picked up my robots text and one other page. I have just checked my site with a site:www.domain.com and I see that I now have four pages from a total of 80+ with titles, descriptions and cache. The cache is out of date but at least it is there. Should I be encouraged by this?

I tried doing a search for a five word phrase that was on one of these pages. My site was not in the top 100 results. I put quotes round the phrase and there I was at the top. I would have thought that I should have been at the top anyway since my site was the only one with the exact phrase. Can anyone tell me if there is any significance in all of this?

Spine

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 7:13 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

What a weird thing this is.

site:www.myurl.com brings up all my indexed pages, 75% of my pages have title and snippets, the rest don't. For a few of the pages WITHOUT snippets I can type in my target keywords for that page, and it shows up in SERPs, WITH snippet and title.

Other searches for affected pages without snippets can't find them, even though they should rank somewhere in the first 2 pages.

Going over the pages I have that are affected, it's hard to see any pattern. When I compare them to my pages that do have snippets, there's no difference that I can see, and all my stuff checks out with the W3 validator.

textex

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 9:22 pm on Mar 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

Spine,
What kind of PR do you have?

chadlerh

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 11:35 pm on Mar 26, 2004 (gmt 0)

I just wanted to add my 2 cents. I don't understand how Google can still claim "Searching 4,285,199,774 web pages" when it is obvious they are not. Since that number was posted all of the major shopping sites have lost hundreds of thousands of pages. As far as I am concerned after reading everyone's posts a signifigant chunk of this number is missing. My theory is that GoogleGuy, who I respect tremendously cannot coment on this because he doesn't want to admit any bad news because of course it would make the news!

so better to just ignore us, get it fixed and many people will never of noticed it happened.

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 8:33 am on Mar 27, 2004 (gmt 0)

This is a good point Chadlerh. I wonder what percentage of sites Google is missing at the moment?

otech

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 8:15 am on Mar 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

absolutely,

i think its completely misleading to go round advertising an index of X when 10%-20% is url only listings that is no good to anybody....

doing site:XXX.com.au (my site) and i get a total of 866

i then do site:****.com.au "term on every page" and get a total of 774

try site:hp.com = 398000
then site:hp.com Hewlett-Packard 313000

Hewlett-Packard appears at the bottom of all their pages... and some without listings have a pr of 8!

if i wasnt supposed to use that url then tell me off...

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 2:07 pm on Mar 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

The silence from Google about this has been deafening. I would have thought that they could have let us have an explanation by now. It's just not acceptable to leave all these webmasters in state of limbo, not knowing if Google is broken or if they have earned some sort of penalty.

I am afraid that this knocks another few points of Google's own PR (as in Public Relations!)

ThomasB

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 2:34 pm on Mar 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

Has GG ever commented on a penalty? If he would do, they would destroy their algo step by step imho. But it would be nice if he could at least answer by "Yes" or "No" on this question:
Is it a penalty?

itisgene

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 8:39 pm on Mar 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

One of my sites showed intersting results on Google.

I launched this new site about a few weeks ago.

Google picked up the links from the home page and "DEEP" crawled with static pages(about 100 pages).

When the googlebot came to this site first, the site was db driven .asp site with 2-4 parameters.

Googlebot didn't crawl further than a few dynamic links and the dynamic pages on google.com through site:mysite.com command showed no title and description for those crawled pages.

Now with converted static pages, googlwbot crawled all of the pages within one week and now shows all the titles and descriptions without any exception. All the 100 pages.

***********************************

I have much bigger site which used same template and still dynamic pages with parameters have still 70% of pages with no title and description.

Obviously the traffic to the second site dropped significantly.

So, my guess is that somehow googlebot dropped the crawling speed a lot for those dynamic pages with parameters and gave no title and description.

*************************************

Another scenario is that google might have "crawler" and "indexer" mismatch. I know Google has only one bot but what if there is main functinality on different googlebots (depending on IPs)?

i mean if one googlebot only crawls a site to find valid links (or no spider traps) and another googlebot comes along and follow the links her friend has found and send the indexing data to google?

Indexing bots will be much busier than crawling bots due to the complexity. So, there is speed mismatch for indexing. So, google knows that there are valid pages on a site but do not have any data to show on SERP (such as title, description, and cache).

Any thought on this?

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 9:54 pm on Mar 29, 2004 (gmt 0)

March 20.
Incidentally I checked my logs again today and noted that the bot had visited and picked up my robots text and one other page. I have just checked my site with a site:www.domain.com and I see that I now have four pages from a total of 80+ with titles, descriptions and cache. The cache is out of date but at least it is there. Should I be encouraged by this?

March 29
The latest on my particular problem is that Google now has my five pages, (including my home page), indexed with an up to date version in the cache and title included. My previous PR5 has not returned and Google is still reporting no links. My site is still nowhere to be seen in the SERPS and the only way it can be found is to search for a text string from one of the pages (and only when in quotes).

Can anyone forecast what is likely to happen next? Are the signs good for an eventual return to its previous position?

Pimpernel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 11:48 pm on Mar 30, 2004 (gmt 0)

BallochB

I assume the site in question is the one in your profile. This has been happening to you for three months now and this post has gone on for over 140 messages, but did it ever occur to you that running a webring (aka, link farm) may at some stage be harmful to your site's ranking?

Search google for your site in quotation marks and you will see out of the 9 sites on the web that link to your URL, 4 of them are part of a link farm that you are also part of.

My recommendation - get out

ILuvSrchEngines



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 1:11 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Can anyone forecast what is likely to happen next? Are the signs good for an eventual return to its previous position?

You in DMOZ? If not, welcome to the bottom with many of the rest of us.

ILuvSrchEngines



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 1:14 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Search google for your site in quotation marks and you will see out of the 9 sites on the web that link to your URL, 4 of them are part of a link farm that you are also part of.

How could Google possibly know the differnce beteen a webmaster who purposely joined a link farm and a webmaster whose link has been snagged by a link farm to help their results?

I can do a link test on any of my web sites and see links from sites that are questionable that I have never asked to link to me. If Google penalizes for those links then we are all in trouble.

Patrick Taylor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 2:11 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

... did it ever occur to you that running a webring (aka, link farm) may at some stage be harmful to your site's ranking?

Some of those webrings look quite legitimate to me. They're relevant to the site, so I can't see why a site would be penalised for that. In any case I thought a webring isn't the same as a link farm. And can it really be the case that Google would penalise a site for the sites that link to it, or are you saying it's the sites he links to that may be the cause of a penalty?

BallochBD

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 7:05 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

I assume the site in question is the one in your profile. This has been happening to you for three months now and this post has gone on for over 140 messages, but did it ever occur to you that running a webring (aka, link farm) may at some stage be harmful to your site's ranking?

Search google for your site in quotation marks and you will see out of the 9 sites on the web that link to your URL, 4 of them are part of a link farm that you are also part of.

My recommendation - get out

Pimpernel, I am no longer part if this. I am out because it has already been put to me that this could have caused the problem. I was a member of a webring of about ten associated sites, all related, legitimate, engineering businesses. I took down my links to this a couple of months ago but this has not helped. I was angry that I was forced to do so because we generated mutual business through our association and I have results to prove this.

Anyway, I think you are wrong in this because the same thing is happening to many sites. You are correct however, it has been going on for more than two months and Google won't respond helpfully to any of my emails. I have spent many hours unsuccessfully trying to counteract this.

Google could help immediately by making a a statement on this problem but they have refused despite repeated pleas for them to do so. If they just come out and tell us what is happening we can react accordingly instead of all this speculation, guessing and wasting more valuable time. I hate to have to say this again but I am only a self employed engineer (a poor one at that!) I don't have time for all of this. Anyway, last post for a few hours I have to out this morning to do my real job!

Pimpernel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 8:26 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Balloch

I am sorry, I take back everything I said. You actually have 95 links in to your site, not 9 and the large majority are nothing to do with the web ring, they are perfectly legitimate sites. Now I am at a loss because you should be doing great. What is very strange is that on top of the "snippets" problem you have also lost your PageRank - very bizarre.

Did you do anything wrong when you were a child that Google has found out about?

Frankly, I think it is appalling that Google has not responded to your queries after so long a period.

Pimpernel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 8:28 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Patrick

What we are seeing is that you can actually be harmed by who links to you. May be able to explain more later

Patrick Taylor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 10:03 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Balloch, you'll be a senior member in no time at this rate. I'm not sure exactly what the problem is. Your site shows up at #50 on your H1, and that's in what seems a very competitive area. I looked at your homepage, and the code isn't exactly search-engine friendly - you have masses of unnecessary markup before there's any real text content - but even then, when I enclose some of your low-down phrases in speechmarks, you have good SERPS - sometimes #1.

So I'm not convinced you have any sort of penalty, and no-one from Google is going to tell you how to design your site. Maybe your pages simply aren't to the taste of the current Google algo, so you need to work to make alterations here and there and not simply assume there's a bad spell been put on your site. If I were you I would dump all that code and make your pages more efficient in terms of the markup to content ratio, and focus on the density of some more distinctive key phrases that are less competitive, and see where that takes you.

Your pages may not be getting the traffic they used to, but they're still there to be found. I really don't think Google is going to come to your rescue here, as if some awful mistake has been made. Things are how they are, and I think it's up to you to alter your site to suit the circumstances.

Pimpernel

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 10:26 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Respectfully, I disagree. You are penalised by google. You have no PageRank and you have the "snippets" problem. Tweaking your site is no way going to do it. You need Google to answer your queries. Email them every day, even several times a day, they will eventually reply. Maybe even sticky mail GoogleGuy (can he be sticky- mailed?)

Patrick Taylor

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 22615 posted 11:05 am on Mar 31, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well yes, try to establish if there is a penalty, to be prudent, but in Balloch's position I would also be working flat out to make changes to how the pages are put together, bearing in mind that there are many other sites similarly affected, with, so it seems from this thread, no provable reason why they would have been penalized.

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