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PR0 After Blogging
madone




msg:122673
 2:14 am on Jan 14, 2004 (gmt 0)

Hello, i tried to post as message in different blogs my own websites.

After 2 month and after florida, Google penalize my sites, they had PR=4 or 5 and now they have PR=0 and you can't find them in SERPS.

Someone know how to re enter in the index in hurry? And with the normal Page rank?

Thanks.

 

GoogleGuy




msg:122733
 6:19 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

madone, you say in your initial message that you went around signing a lot of blogs, and now your site isn't doing as well as before. It could be one of two things: over the last few weeks, Google has started deploying better technology that negates the effect of blog comment spamming. The changes haven't fully rolled out yet, but it could be that your site just isn't doing as well now that the blog comments aren't doing your site any benefit anymore. The other possibility is that if you did enough blog comments to show up in the blacklist mentioned earlier, or if someone filed a spam report about your site, Google could have investigated, verified that the comments were done by the site in question (you admit this in your first post) and taken manual action to correct the spam.

I'd suggest that you read
[google.com...]
especially the parts "Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings." and "Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank." Most of Google's effort in this area has been at updating our algorithms to spot and negate this type of spam automatically (i.e. no human in the loop). But Google does take blog comment spam seriously. If you really overdid it (and no offense, but by saying that you did it and that bloggers were sharing information about your site--that's pretty serious), then you could have triggered someone manually investigating. My hunch would be that our automatic algorithms just removed the blog comments links though, and now your site isn't doing as well. That's more likely.

Evergreen




msg:122734
 7:32 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Thanks Googleguy, This was what I was hoping for in my earlier post. I've seen some top listed sites that show tons of spammy links all over the web on blogs and BBS type forums. Hopefully you're working on that BBS forum spam as well.

On the other hand, I don't think there should be a penalty for blogging as a competitor could post someone else's url all over the place. But to negate the value of those spammy links for PR purposes is an excellent change.

soapystar




msg:122735
 7:40 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

I say respect to GG that he takes the time to address the concerns of a self confessed spammer.

mfishy




msg:122736
 7:47 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

<<I don't think there should be a penalty for blogging as a competitor could post someone else's url all over the place.>>

hehe, yah GG, you may want to rethink the way you said that or else there will be a free-for-all of posting competitors to boards :)

rfgdxm1




msg:122737
 7:50 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

>The other possibility is that if you did enough blog comments to show up in the blacklist mentioned earlier, or if someone filed a spam report about your site, Google could have investigated, verified that the comments were done by the site in question (you admit this in your first post) and taken manual action to correct the spam.

But how, short of a confession, could Google know if was the webmaster, or a competitor, or just someone who didn't like the webmaster, and did it for spite, malice and revenge reason? Only way I can see Google being able to prove this is if Google had the IP logs of the blogs AND that IP happened be associated with the site in question.

vitaplease




msg:122738
 7:51 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>My hunch would be that our automatic algorithms just removed the blog comments links though, and now your site isn't doing as well. That's more likely

I think that sums it up pretty well..now or hopefully in the near future..

mfishy




msg:122739
 7:55 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

<<Only way I can see Google being able to prove this is if Google had the IP logs of the blogs >>

Right, because spammers always use their own ip :)

BigDave




msg:122740
 8:00 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Only way I can see Google being able to prove this is if Google had the IP logs of the blogs AND that IP happened be associated with the site in question.

Well, let's see . . . google owns blogger, so they do have the logs.

As for "the same IP address" he admitted to it in message #42.

This has all been covered.

Marcia




msg:122741
 8:06 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

If links just aren't counted it's no loss or gain either way, regardless of who did them. Sounds more than fair enough.

agerhart




msg:122742
 8:17 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>>>As for "the same IP address" he admitted to it in message #42.

>>>>This has all been covered.

Sure...if that particular member is the only one blog spamming. This obviously isn't the case.

BallochBD




msg:122743
 8:34 pm on Feb 23, 2004 (gmt 0)

Soapystar wrote
<I say respect to GG that he takes the time to address the concerns of a self confessed spammer.>

I just wish that GoogleGuy could do something for those of us non-spammers over on the thread about sites that Google has stopped spidering. If someone is breaching the G guidelines they must face the consequences. What about those of us who don't and get dropped for no reason?

madone




msg:122744
 1:51 am on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

The changes haven't fully rolled out yet, but it could be that your site just isn't doing as well now that the blog comments aren't doing your site any benefit anymore.

This isn't

The other possibility is that if you did enough blog comments to show up in the blacklist mentioned earlier, or if someone filed a spam report about your site, Google could have investigated, verified that the comments were done by the site in question (you admit this in your first post) and taken manual action to correct the spam.

Yes this is the correct possibility.


I'd suggest that you read
[google.com...]
especially the parts "Avoid tricks intended to improve search engine rankings." and "Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank." Most of Google's effort in this area has been at updating our algorithms to spot and negate this type of spam automatically (i.e. no human in the loop).

So if a competitor spam my sites google ban them forever?

If i don't want to see yahoo, google, or competitor sites with pagerank i will spam it in all blogs?
And they will have pagerank=0 forever?

You said time ago that external factor don't penalize sites, blog spam is an external factor and can be done by me or by another one..


But Google does take blog comment spam seriously. If you really overdid it (and no offense, but by saying that you did it and that bloggers were sharing information about your site--that's pretty serious), then you could have triggered someone manually investigating. My hunch would be that our automatic algorithms just removed the blog comments links though, and now your site isn't doing as well. That's more likely.

No because not all sites were reported so it's the spam report motivation.

I want to ask only, how much time i have to wait?
Need i to buy new sites because these will be ban forever?
Im still waiting and i don't have response from google from this forum from no one.

Many spammer still in search engines thanks google.

seodave




msg:122745
 3:26 pm on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

I've been researching bans/penalties associated with blog comment spamming, guestbook spamming and memberlist (of forums) spamming for links since the end of November 2003.

There is very good evidence google is banning/penalising (probably manually) domains that obtain a significant number of links from the above.

A link to a version of the mt-blacklist has already been listed in this thread. This is a list of domains banned by bloggers from posting comments to their blogs.

If you take a random sample of a dozen domains and check the following you'll see the evidence.

1. Check backlinks and PR on Google.
2. Check backlinks on Alltheweb.

Compare the above and you should find a significant number of domains on the blacklist are showing unussual results in Google when compared to Alltheweb.

Taking into account that Alltheweb tends to show almost all links to a site and google only shows a small sample, you can still see the problems with sites.

I've seen sites with thousands of links on alltheweb with no backlinks and no or very low PR (PR1) in Google.

if you check the allinurl:www.domain.com in google you may also find a lot of the pages indexed are either lacking a cache or reported as a supplemental result. If you check a site over time they sometimes loose a lot of the pages from the index, though not always all.

I would say what google is doing is looking at these domains on an individual basis and either banning them out right or where they have some 'real' links (not spammed) signifcantly reducing their PR. This then results in the results I'm seeing.

The thing to take away from this is Google will ban/penalise a site for external factors.

Google hints as much here-
[google.com...]

"Your page was manually removed from our index, because it did not conform with the quality standards necessary to assign accurate PageRank."

brakkar




msg:122746
 5:37 pm on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have blogs that talked about my site without me making any advertising about it there.

I hope that these links to my site are not considered as spam.

Brakkar

Chndru




msg:122747
 6:42 pm on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

If i don't want to see yahoo, google, or competitor sites with pagerank i will spam it in all blogs?

Typically G doesn't apply negative penalty. They simply take out the positive weight of those "suspicious links". Maybe they allow just a small % of the backlinks from blogs or something like that.

HughMungus




msg:122748
 7:42 pm on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

please consider blogs the same as message boards and ignore those links in terms of topicality.

Wouldn't blogs and message boards be *more* topical as they are organically created and current?

rfgdxm1




msg:122749
 7:52 pm on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

>Wouldn't blogs and message boards be *more* topical as they are organically created and current?

They also have significant spam potential. And even can end up with "innocent" spamming. One forum I participate in allows short .sigs in the custom of Usenet, and those can include URLs. This isn't considered spamming there at all, consistent with Usenet custom. Should I get benefit from those links? Blogs are diffent in the sense that gratuitous dropping of URLs is considered inappropriate. However, this won't stop true spammers. :( Also, not counting blog and message board links actually are good for those webmasters as it reduces the temptation to spammers.

HughMungus




msg:122750
 8:49 pm on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

I know. Thanks again, spammers.

BigDave




msg:122751
 10:56 pm on Feb 24, 2004 (gmt 0)

Links from blogs should be counted. The problem is with unmoderated blog comments.

In fact I have no trouble with considering the .sig links, as long as they are of honest participants of the forum/blog/listserv. But if the results are skewed by spammers loading up on blog comments, then I would not object too much to them being taken out.

theitboy




msg:122752
 7:30 am on Feb 25, 2004 (gmt 0)

Of course blog links should be counted (and are). Accumulated blog links are a tremendously valuable search engine resource - I'm sure that's why Google bought Blogger (or at least one of the reasons). I'm not so sure blog comments should be counted - I don't see why somebody voting for themselves should be counted, if it can be helped.

My blog has noindex, nofollow in the comments template. I want my pagerank distributed where I think it should go, not where other people want it to.

As for the person that's upset because bloggers complained and got them banned from google, what did you expect? Bloggers are tech savvy types who know exactly what you're up to, and why, and also know what to do about it. If you're going to comment spam, at least have the brains to do it on "me and my dog" style site's guestbooks. You deserved what you got.

philor




msg:122753
 5:33 pm on Feb 28, 2004 (gmt 0)

Well, let's see . . . google owns blogger, so they do have the logs.

That turns out not to be the case. Blogger doesn't provide any built-in commenting, so if you run your blog through it to have comments you use a third-party program that typically has the comments either noindexed or behind javascripted-in links. By far the bulk of comment spamming happens on Blogger's biggest competitor's users' blogs.

However, there was a time back before most spammers learned to use anonymous proxies, when bloggers would announce "I've banned [an IP] for spamming me", so if Google was manually looking into someone who's been at it for a while, and started out running their comment spambot from the same IP as their site, they could get confirmation that way. For that matter, the blacklist linked above was built up by submissions from spam victims that include the IP, and Google may well have that list as well.

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