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Multiple reciprocal links from the one site!
Will this improve my page rank or be seen as google bait?
sleepy




msg:82746
 10:52 pm on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

Accidently posted this in another forum ...

I am in the process of launching a reciprocal links campaign and have discovered that I should be able to legitmately place multiple links on many of the larger sites I will be targeting. (ie one website that links to my site from up to 5 or 6 different webpages).

Will this improve my page rank or be seen as a negative by the google monster?

Thanks

 

WebGuerrilla




msg:82747
 12:33 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)


Unfortunately, no.

The good 'ol days of repetitve links from the same site rocketing you to the top have been gone for awhile.

Bobby




msg:82748
 1:12 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

What if the links are pointing to different pages on the site with different anchor text, how would that affect things?

steveb




msg:82749
 1:29 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I don't think WebGuerrilla understood your question. Multiple links from different pages of any site or sites benefits you. More than one link on the same page to a single page does you no good.

Some sites benefit from having thousands of links from thousands of pages of another domain.

WebGuerrilla




msg:82750
 1:39 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)


I understood the question. What I'm saying is that placing a link in the footer of a site with 5000 pages and a homepage PR8 won't produce any better results than just having a single link on the hompage.

There was a time where there was a huge difference, but it isn't the case anymore.

antrat




msg:82751
 1:44 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I should be able to legitmately place multiple links on many of the larger sites I will be targeting. (ie one website that links to my site from up to 5 or 6 different webpages).

Will this improve my page rank or be seen as a negative by the google monster?

It will improve your page rank. By how much though is unknown. The least it will do is bring you targetted traffic from the other site. If you can do this then you would be mad not to.

[edited by: antrat at 1:45 am (utc) on Jan. 7, 2004]

steveb




msg:82752
 1:44 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

That's certainly not true [edit, replying to WG], but also not his question. Getting links from five or six pages on another domain will definitely help his domain, whether they all link to his main page or (probably better) to various pages on his domain.

WG, it's hard to believe you think the IMDb doesn't benefit from it thousands of links from dmoz and the Google Directory.

PatrickDeese




msg:82753
 1:57 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

> hard to believe you think the IMDb doesn't benefit from it thousands of links from dmoz and the Google Directory.

What is the percentage of the total number of pages in DMOZ/gDirectory that IMdb has links from?

I agree with WG - getting 5K links from a site with 5K pages isn't nearly as valuable as getting 5K links from a site with 275K pages (or whatever).

steveb




msg:82754
 2:13 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

First of all, who cares what is more valuable? I'd rather find a twenty dollar bill on the ground than a ten dollar one, but I'm not going to pout and not pick up the ten just because it isn't a twenty.

And percentage of pages on a site doesn't matter in the least anyway. Pagerank is page based. A link is a link. Links from 5000 pages on the same domain pass PR the same way as 5000 parallel pages on various domains.

Just because a link from a homepage may be better (in terms of PR) than links from the rest of a domain's pages put together doesn't mean that the benefit from links from the rest of those pages won't also be a bonus good. Of course it will. I'd rather have 2.8 of something than 2.4.

But this is off-topic. The question here regards five or six links, not thousands. The answer is that it is a straightforward good, positive thing to get those links (assuming the site isn't a bad neighborhood site).

antrat




msg:82755
 2:21 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebGuerrilla and PatrickDeese, you are clouding the issue by answering questions that were not asked. Sleepy never asked if he/she was better off doing "A" over "B", he/she simply asked if "A" was worth it. To this the answer is without doubt a BIG yes.

PatrickDeese




msg:82756
 2:22 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

> First of all, who cares what is more valuable?

Sorry. Let me put it in simple terms:

Google filters links when there are large numbers of them (ie 100%) coming from the same site.

I can show you numerous examples of this as well, if you are interested.

My conclusion (based on casual observation) is that Google may be filtering links when they exceed a threshold percentage of the total number of pages in the site. This is why I suggested that getting links from 100% of the pages on an site (whether it be 6000, 600, 60, or 6) may not be the best strategy for gaining link benefit in G.

Kirby




msg:82757
 2:23 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

If you crosslink 6 sites so that each site links to the home page of the other five from every page on the site, does Google:

1. Count each link as coming from a separate page
2. Discount all but one
3. Discount all for crosslinking
4. Count each link until they act on a spam report
5.?

I was part of this until 5 days into Florida when I got worried and removed the crosslinks. All the sites showed numerous links from each site and all bumped up in PR by one. 4 did well in Florida, 2 got buried but came back. The other 5 sites have removed the links to my site and this is reflected in the recent PR/links update as well as a drop from PR6 to PR5. However the serps still have me #5 or better for kws that matter.

Did I reduce risk or panic and lose a good thing?

steveb




msg:82758
 3:04 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

"Google filters links when there are large numbers of them (ie 100%) coming from the same site."

I can show plenty where this isn't true, and it certainly isn't on the topic of this thread. Other algorithmic considerations are variable. pagerank is not. 5000 links brings X benefit; those 5000 links plus one more brings *more* benefit, even if microscopic. A link from an index page will bring less PR benefit than a link from that index page plus one or more other pages. It's an absolute.

WebGuerrilla




msg:82759
 3:22 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

WG, it's hard to believe you think the IMDb doesn't benefit from it thousands of links from dmoz and the Google Directory.

Why is it hard to believe? Have you spent any time looking through IMBd's backlinks? They have over 8000 dmoz listings. Almost all of them come from individual movie title pages (all PR4) that link to urls that serve a 302 to a different page. If you check the backlinks on any of the pages you end up on, you won't find a single PR4 odp page listed.

Meanwhile, a huge chunk of the backlinks pointing to their homepage are coming from high PR .edu domains on unique IP's. You could remove every single dmoz listing and they would still be a PR9

A link is a link. Links from 5000 pages on the same domain pass PR the same way as 5000 parallel pages on various domains.

As I said in my original post, there was a time when I would have agreed with that statement. But it certainly isn't the case anymore. A link to your homepage distributed across 5000 PR6 pages on a single domain does not carry the same weight as having a link to your homepage on a single PR6 page across 5000 unique domains.

steveb




msg:82760
 3:43 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

"If you check the backlinks on any of the pages you end up on, you won't find a single PR4 odp page listed."

Um, yeah you will. There are a lot of pages that have been updated to the new URLs and lots going to old URLs that haven't been updated, but how fast the editors are updating them is not the point. IMDB PR is *better off* with those links than without. Period.

And again, what difference does it make if something not possible is better than something possible? The choices are:
A) a link from a homepage
B) a link from a homepage, plus 5 more links from that domain (or 5000)

B is better.

There is no choice C where you get 5 or 5000 links from other domains instead of a single domain. That option is not on the table and irrelevant here.

Your answer in the second post is plainly wrong. In answer to the question in the first post, five links would be better than one.

Christyl Stevens




msg:82761
 4:50 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Have you spent any time looking through IMBd's backlinks?

Please explain what is meant by IMBd?

Thank you!

sit2510




msg:82762
 5:58 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>> A link to your homepage distributed across 5000 PR6 pages on a single domain does not carry the same weight as having a link to your homepage on a single PR6 page across 5000 unique domains.

====================================

I totally agree.

>>> place multiple links on many of the larger sites I will be targeting. (ie one website that links to my site from up to 5 or 6 different webpages). Will this improve my page rank or be seen as a negative by the google monster?

=====================================

Having multiple links from only 5-6 different webpages on the LARGE SITE will bear you no negative effect on Google. I also believe that it will help to improve your pagerank to a certain degree, but to what extent is unknown.

lorenzinho2




msg:82763
 6:31 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes. And if you can up those 5 or 6 pages to 3,000 pages from the same domain, I would argue from my recent, post-Florida experience that this will STILL help you. You may not see backlinks showing up, you may not see PR being transferred, but you will see improved search engine placement. Errr, at least in some cases :)

martinibuster




msg:82764
 6:46 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

IMBd.com

If having thousands of inbounds from one domain was the "killer trick" for increasing your pr and position, you would see more web design firms dominating the serps. They don't.

If having thousands of inbound links was so good for your pr, then web design websites would have the highest PR of all industries. They don't.

View Google's directory of web designers for F [directory.google.com], and check out the PR of the top ranking firm: A piddling PR 6.

WebGuerrilla is correct. I know it's correct from personal experience: I have at least a hundred inbounds from one website and it isn't even a fraction as good as one link from about.com.

lorenzinho2




msg:82765
 6:59 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I believe based on numerous recent cases that 5 inbound links from the same domain is better than 4, 3000 better than 2000, etc. I'm not saying it's a magic pill, I'm not saying it's going to rocket you to the top of the SERPS. I'm just saying its incrementally better.

As far as 6 links from PR5 pages coming from unique IPs versus 6 links from PR5 pages coming from the same IP, I don't know. It would make sense to me that the links from unique IPs would be worth more, but I just haven't seen Google ever stray from its page (versus site) focus.

If someone has an example of this I'd love to see it.

martinibuster




msg:82766
 7:09 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I believe based on numerous recent cases...

lorenzinho2, let's do cocktails sometime. We live in the same neck of the woods.
:) Y
Regarding your statement:

  1. Are these your websites?

  2. Do you believe, or do you know?

[edited by: martinibuster at 7:09 am (utc) on Jan. 7, 2004]

antrat




msg:82767
 7:09 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

martinibuster, what has your post to do with the original question. It's ultimately a yes or no answer. Myself and Steveb say "yes". If you think "no" then you are telling sleepy that multiple links from multiple pages on one site is not worth it. I believe it certainly is and explained why in my first post.

I would sincerly like to hear the reasons why you say it is not?

martinibuster




msg:82768
 7:11 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I would really like to hear the reasons why you say it is not?

Dude, post# 19. No.

antrat




msg:82769
 7:14 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I can see nothing in there that would give reason not to do as Sleepy has asked? While it may or may not boost PR, it is still x links on x pages which means x more clicks through to his/her site.

lorenzinho2




msg:82770
 7:19 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Martinibuster, sounds good.

I run a site with approximately 80,000 pages. It's a content and community site that survives on advertising and sponsorships. I routinely sell sponsorships - usually by channel, which entail a hardcoded link on large numbers of those pages.

A client that signed on with me approximately one month ago has seen a noticable jump in the SERPS for some fairly competitive terms (2-3M results). My gut tells me that this is not the kind of jump that could come solely from a link on my PR7 home page.

So, to answer your question, I don't know for sure, but i have a pretty good hunch.

martinibuster




msg:82771
 7:20 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

While it may or may not boost PR, it is still x links on x pages which means x more clicks through to his/her site.

antrat, with great respect for your opinion, the topic of this thread is not about click-throughs. Scroll up to the title of this post:

Will this improve my page rank or be seen as google bait?

The topic of this thread is about PageRank and tripping Google's filters/algo in a negative way.

My response is to the topic of this thread.
:) Y

[edited by: martinibuster at 7:29 am (utc) on Jan. 7, 2004]

martinibuster




msg:82772
 7:23 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>I run a site with approximately 80,000 pages. It's a content and community site...

Authority and depth of content can add up to powerful Link Kung Fu [mcgoogle.com].

lorenzinho2




msg:82773
 7:27 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Funny you should say that. I'm actually on the Link Kung Fu track at PubConference. Maybe I'll see you in there.

antrat




msg:82774
 7:32 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

you say yes to "Will this improve my page rank or be seen as google bait?"

That's hedging your bets :o) I say it will help PR are you saying that it wont? Or to put it another way, site X sais they will give you 10 links on 10 seperate pages of their one site. What would you say, "yes" or "no", I would most certainly say yes.

martinibuster




msg:82775
 7:37 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Let me make this as clear as possible:

"Will this improve my page rank?"

No.

"Will this be seen as google bait?"

No.

Where is the yes, and where is the hedge?

You can also refer back to message #23 where I say, "No."
:) Y

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