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Google Answers PR10?
With 400 Backlinks?
taxpod




msg:200631
 8:37 pm on Jan 6, 2004 (gmt 0)

I had never been to Google Answers before so I decided to pay a visit. I was surprised to find the toolbar PR 10 so I checked backlinks. There were only 461 which I thought might be a little weak for a PR10. So I checked some of these and found a lot of them to be from a single domain, Google, and most to be relatively low PR pages with lots of links.

Also I note that many of the backlink pages were dynamically generated and contained multiple variables in the URL. Those links which weren't from Google pages were mostly fairly obscure pages with low PR. There were some quality links, like you find with any good site, to be sure but not a lot of them. Most of the good links were from Blogs or computer publication sites.

In my experience, a couple good (PR5 or 6) links generally doesn't do it. Also, multi-variable dynamically generated pages where the variables sit in the URL with a "?" and a couple "&" generally don't get indexed. It was my understanding that having a high percentage of links from a single domain might get you penalized or at least get the links discounted since this is link farming. And whereas it has been put forth that having a link to an external high quality, topical site on every page is advisable, this page had no links to the outside world.

So I figured maybe there was a single link from the Google home page that would explain high PR. Nope. I was so shocked that I ran right over here to post this. I hope this makes the cut and am anxiously awaiting a reply from anyone regarding how this page could be a 10. And this page should be recorded into the official list of natural PR10s.

 

WebGuerrilla




msg:200632
 12:43 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)


Google Answers is a PR10, but Yahoo is a PR9.

That's a great example of how much of a joke toolbar PR has become.

sidyadav




msg:200633
 12:51 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)
I'm very sure Google optimizes the Results, PR everything for it self:
http://www.google.com/search?q=toolbar
why is the Google toolbar 1st for a query on 'toolbar' when there are 1000s of other toolbars?

there are 1000s of other examples.

...and I thought Google (inc. PR) was un-optimizable!

Sid

bignet




msg:200634
 12:58 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

insider trading

google.dj (Djibouti) have a pr of 9 with 99 listed links

Kirby




msg:200635
 12:59 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google got the courts to agree that PR is simply Google's opinion. Obviously Google has a high opinion of itself.

BigDave




msg:200636
 1:25 am on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

PR10 links
www.google.com/help/
www.google.com/options/

The same google.co.uk are PR9 and the .com.au are PR7.

If you extrapolate that out to all the country sites, it adds up.

ciml




msg:200637
 1:19 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Yes Dave, those PR10 links make all the difference.

Toolbar PR flows in Google as elsewhere, except in cases where a URL is penalised, or where Google can't follow a link.

The massive amounts of PR coming from other Google pages doesn't necessarily produce impressive rankings though. It's not hard to find PR10 pages on www.google.com that barely make the top 100 for the phrase they're optimal for (title and anchor text).

Gramme




msg:200638
 2:12 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Rather than leave this as an esoteric discussion, I dare you to contact them and ask for a link from that nice juicy PR10 page.

Well, we can dream, can't we? lol

allanp73




msg:200639
 2:36 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

If Google alters the pr for itself and Yahoo how does effect the web in general. The number of sites links from Yahoo is huge. Google's alteration of one or two sites adversely affect the whole web.

Rugles




msg:200640
 2:45 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I have a backlink from Google Answers. I see a little bit of traffic. I have been wondering if it passing PR, does anybody know?

Macro




msg:200641
 3:40 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

As pointed out already [google.com...] is a PR10 page.

You need only one PR10 link to get a PR10. I don't see the problem.

mcavic




msg:200642
 4:04 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

why is the Google toolbar 1st for a query on 'toolbar' when there are 1000s of other toolbars?

Because toolbar.google.com has PR10 due to a www.google.com backlink, and it has the word 'toolbar' in the title and the url.

bignet




msg:200643
 4:13 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Google Answers is a PR10, but Yahoo is a PR9.

That's a great example of how much of a joke toolbar PR has become.

and PR

Macro




msg:200644
 5:22 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

That's a great example of how much of a joke toolbar PR has become.


Or Yahoo. It's lost a lot of support over the last few years. Presumably webmasters aren't linking to it like they used to... so it's not getting enough PR coming in.

WebGuerrilla




msg:200645
 6:14 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)


AV shows a 9 with 70,000 reported backlinks.

Google shows a 10 with 323,000

Yahoo shows a 9 with 775,000

I certainly understand the concept of quality vs. quantity. However, I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that the cummulative effect of that number of links doesn't work out to be a 10 when you do the math.

rfgdxm1




msg:200646
 6:56 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

>I certainly understand the concept of quality vs. quantity. However, I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that the cummulative effect of that number of links doesn't work out to be a 10 when you do the math.

I most seriously doubt this. I guess it is possible someone at Google fudged the numbers to give PR10s to Google pages that were really lower. However, I really doubt they'd see this as important enough to bother with. Also, I think you are forgetting all the PR Google gets from dmoz.org from that green ball link to Google on every category page. Webmasters here frequently whine how disadvantaged they are because they can't get just one link from the ODP because there site is still in unreviewed. Imagine the PR value of getting a link on *every* dmoz.org category page...

Added: Macro wrote "Or Yahoo. It's lost a lot of support over the last few years. Presumably webmasters aren't linking to it like they used to... so it's not getting enough PR coming in." Those backlink numbers WG posted are for the home page. Does Yahoo get the sort of high powered backlinks to internal pages like Google does from ODP links to the Google directory on every category page? For Google this means a lot of PR to the internal pages that can get funneled to the home page.

BigDave




msg:200647
 8:31 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

As I recently pointed out in another thread, "Search powered by Google" links are on several sites that carry a lot of PR, such as w3c, and it is on EVERY page of macromedia as part of their footer.

those Google PR10 pages are high PR10.

bignet




msg:200648
 9:11 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I think you are forgetting all the PR Google gets from dmoz.org

I see also Yhaoo and others

WebGuerrilla




msg:200649
 9:40 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

For the record, I'm not questioning the legitimacy of Google's 10. It's Yahoo's 9 that seems a bit fishy.

You need only one PR10 link to get a PR10. I don't see the problem.

So a single link from a PR10 will automatically make you a 10? It certainly improves your chances, but it isn't automatic. You can find several examples of PR10 pages that link to other pages that are not a 10.

As far as the dmoz category links, I'm not sure I see what you are talking about other than the search links at the bottom. Since each link points to a different dynamic page (that shows no PR) and the same links exist for Yahoo, I would think that it would be a bit of a wash.

taxpod




msg:200650
 10:05 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

I brought this up as a sort of academic thing or just to stir some discussion. I see where some say "What's the big deal. The page has backlinks from some PR10s so naturally it has a 10." But the 10s I have seen all have multiple outgoing links, sometimes dozens. So how can 1 link from a PR10 with 50 outgoing links give you a PR10? What about the dampening factor? What about the division of PR to outgoing links?

Again, I bring this up purely to spur discussion. The point is not to create arguments about "what are you worried about." The point is to further discuss PR even if it is less important than it once was.

BigDave




msg:200651
 11:09 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

Not all PR10s are created equal. And Google has the king of all PR10s in their home page. This is often referred to as a PR11, as the highest page out there.

So the links off this page are also probably high PR10s.

Google does not automatically boost their pages to PR10. Lots of their country sites have a relatively low PR.

As for yahoo, a huge percentage of the links into yahoo go to the hundred million pages that they have. I would not be at all surprised to find that yahoo has more total PR spread around their site than google has. The key is the "spread around their site" part.

Where are the PR10 external links into the www.yahoo.com home page?

hobbnet




msg:200652
 11:14 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

WebGuerilla said:
Google shows a 10 with 323,000
Yahoo shows a 9 with 775,000...I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that the cummulative effect of that number of links doesn't work out to be a 10 when you do the math.

The vast majority of those 775,000 Yahoo.com links are internal links from the yahoo directory and other channels like Yahoo Personals, Yahoo Groups, etc.

Google, on the other hand is not a gigantic portal like Yahoo (at least not yet) so, the percentage of internal links is probably far less than that of Yahoo. Making the links they do have much more 'valuable'. And as a reference from a different post...

WebGuerilla said:
placing a link in the footer of a site with 5000 pages and a homepage PR8 won't produce any better results than just having a single link on the hompage.

[webmasterworld.com...]

rfgdxm1




msg:200653
 11:29 pm on Jan 7, 2004 (gmt 0)

>As far as the dmoz category links, I'm not sure I see what you are talking about other than the search links at the bottom. Since each link points to a different dynamic page (that shows no PR) and the same links exist for Yahoo, I would think that it would be a bit of a wash.

Here's what I mean WG.

[dmoz.org...]

Look at the bottom right of the page. Notice the green ball. Put your mouse over the green ball, and you'll see that it is a link to the comparable Google directory cat. Every Google Directory cat page at the bottom links to:

[google.com...]
[google.com...]

Both PR10 pages, and both link back to www.google.com. That's a huge amount of PR flowing from dmoz.org to Google.

WebGuerrilla




msg:200654
 12:03 am on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

>>you'll see that it is a link to the comparable Google directory cat

Ahh, much clearer now. :)

WebGuerrilla




msg:200655
 12:58 am on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

The vast majority of those 775,000 Yahoo.com links are internal links from the yahoo directory and other channels like Yahoo Personals, Yahoo Groups, etc.

hobbnet, I was wondering how long these two threads would run before they intersected. I gave up on the thread you referenced because it has become a hair splitting contest, but I think the underlying discussion is applicable to Yahoo's slip.

In a system where PR flows from page to page in an equal manner, regardless of the number of links coming from the same or related sites, Yahoo clearly has enough PR throughout its network of properties to warrant a homepage PR of 10. And a 10 it once was.

In a new post-Dominic system where a particular page's ability to pass PR might not be completely tied to its ability to earn PR, Yahoo may very well slip to a 9.

Kirby




msg:200656
 1:02 am on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

>In a new post-Dominic system where a particular page's ability to pass PR might not be completely tied to its ability to earn PR...<

huh?

rfgdxm1




msg:200657
 1:58 am on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

>In a system where PR flows from page to page in an equal manner, regardless of the number of links coming from the same or related sites, Yahoo clearly has enough PR throughout its network of properties to warrant a homepage PR of 10. And a 10 it once was.

Something just occurred to me. It is generally assumed that toolbar PR is a logarithmic scale. With PR0 representing the "seed value" Google starts every page with, and the page with the highest real PR in the index being PR11. PR values shown in the toolbar are rounded down. Google.com has the highest PR of all sites, and is the PR11. On a log scale, if Yahoo maintained the same real PR as before, and Google managed to increase its real PR, then if Yahoo.com had been a low PR10 before, it could get pushed down into PR9 territory. I can easily see this happening with sites adding the "Powered By Google" search now linking to Google increasing its PR.

antrat




msg:200658
 2:09 am on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

As far as I know the toolbar PR has never been accurate. Debating A diff of 1, via the toolbar, seems that it will raise more questions than it answers.

ciml




msg:200659
 11:20 am on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

taxpod:
So how can 1 link from a PR10 with 50 outgoing links give you a PR10?

This would happen if the Toolbar PR10 page is really about PR11.3 or more (I'm using data from a few months ago, but these things don't often change). Of course if the destination page has good feedback from the pages it links to, then a linking page of 10 < x < 11 something would be sufficient.

As Dave points out, Google probably has the "king of all PR10s", so the numbers are feasible.

Anyway, I think the temptation to put www.google.com to for 'search engine' would be greater than the temptation to give themselves some extra PR for internal pages where hardly anyone considers the PR.

rfgdxm1:
With PR0 representing the "seed value" Google starts every page with, and the page with the highest real PR in the index being PR11

There is a range of real PR assigned to Toolbar PR0; also Chris_R's research on Toolbar vs Google Directory scales indicates strongly that PR is not strictly calibrated to the top of those scales.

antrat, Toolbar PR is far more accurate than it is precise.

irishaff




msg:200660
 2:16 pm on Jan 8, 2004 (gmt 0)

Of course its PR 10... google are not stupid. So what if its hand ranked? I distinctly remember people slagging them off when some of their main pages had a weak PR.

This 34 message thread spans 2 pages: 34 ( [1] 2 > >
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