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How to determine if being penalized by Google?
Links to/from clients sites being looked at as reciprocal links?
geoinct




msg:167623
 8:05 pm on Dec 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

We’re small web design and search marketing firm. We used to have a Google Page Rank and no longer do. What’s worse, many of our clients have 0 or low page ranks.

The only thing I can think of is that we may be getting penalized for some reason and so are our clients.

I wonder if the links between our sites are being deemed as reciprocal links? Being web developers we have “web site by companyname’ links at the bottom of some client pages.

At the same time, on our Clients page we have links to some of those very same clients so that prospective customers can see the work we do.

We do search marketing for a number of clients (and always follow ethical tactics to the best of our ability). We have some clients that we do search marketing for, whose web sites we did not design, so there is no “web site by companyname’ links on those sites back to our site. Those sites usually have much better Page Ranks even though we employ the same tactics as for the other client sites. It is this that really makes me think that we may be getting penalized for the links between sites.

Any thoughts before I start removing the outgoing links to our client sites? I’m not going to be happy if this is the case as these links to our clients help us sell our services and the links on our client sites to our site help bring us new customers.

 

jimbeetle




msg:167624
 9:13 pm on Dec 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi geoinct,

Welcome to Webmaster World.

A “web site by companyname" link to the design company and links back from the company's client list would in themselves not be cause for alarm. They are both very normal, legitimate, non-deceptive practices.

Unless! Besides these links among the design company and clients' sites, how well are each of them linked with sites from "outside the fold"? Do each of the client sites have significant number of outgoing links, of which the link to your site will be one of many? Do they have incoming links from different external sites? The same questions for the design site.

Unless each site is linked separately to other sites it might look to Google and other SEs as a typical link farm. So, best bet is to develop some different incoming links for each site and finding sites to externally link to (maybe a 'more information' section on each page, for example).

Warning: I'm opening up a can of worms here concerning the external links from each site. Many others here on WW advise to limit external links or find ways to hide them from SE spiders. I'm from the other camp, the more the merrier.

Jim

kaled




msg:167625
 9:41 pm on Dec 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

If Google are able to identify clusters of cross-linked sites (and I think most people believe that they can) then I would imagine that they look at the total number of inward links (from outside the cluster) and outward links (beyond the cluster) to determine if dodgy practices are in use.

In the short term, linking to more sites (outside the cluster) may help. Getting more inward links to all sites (from outside the cluster) will probably be required too.

Of course, this is just guesswork.

Kaled.

geoinct




msg:167626
 1:59 pm on Dec 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Someone sent me this via sticky mail and I think it's worth posting -

If the links are between sites on same IP, and the bot spots them, you will be penalised.

Since we use the same couple of web hosting companies for most sites soem of them will be on the same servers, but most of them have their own IP address. As does our web site

geoinct




msg:167627
 2:10 pm on Dec 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

[Unless! Besides these links among the design company and clients' sites, how well are each of them linked with sites from "outside the fold"? Do each of the client sites have significant number of outgoing links, of which the link to your site will be one of many? Do they have incoming links from different external sites? The same questions for the design site. ]

Interesting. Some of web design clients, that we have done little or no marketing for, have very few incoming or outgoing links. Others, the ones we have done Link Building for usually have a fair number of incoming links and some outgoing links. One of our clients that I am most conerned about, as they have a 0 PR, is an national antique seller and that site has a fair number of incoming links from various antique directory sites, etc. They have just a few outgoing links to some antique information and charity show sites they participate in.

cabbie




msg:167628
 2:47 pm on Dec 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WW geoinct.Having no pr after having pr smells like a penalty to me and needs to be fixed fast before it becomes a death roll.There are multiple reasons including linking into a bad neighbourhood.
My advice is get a good competent SEO to look at your situation.

plasma




msg:167629
 8:29 pm on Dec 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

Welcome to WW geoinct!

If you want you can sticky me some urls, and I'll have a look.
Not many get penalized (would be pointless anyways). Google prefers to tweak the algo so that spamming techniques will no longer work. They could do better, but that's a different story.

plasma




msg:167630
 8:36 pm on Dec 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

If the links are between sites on same IP, and the bot spots them, you will be penalised.

Nonsense, pure speculation.
1. The big webhosters host millions of sites on 1 IP.
2. Remember that Google is a 'page' search engine, not a 'site' search engine, it doesn't even care if the links are 'internal' or incoming (from other 'sites').

napoleon bona part 2




msg:167631
 7:39 am on Dec 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, I have a similar problem. I have 6 websites with <b>heavy interlinking</b> that is- from every page. 5 websites are doing pretty well in serps while one of them is nowhere to be found. Googlebot doesn't visit this site any more. The index page of this site shows a PR 5 while the sub pages, which once used to be PR 5 and 4 and still do have the same number of links to them ,now have a PR 0. The allinurl: shows only 138 pages indexed, while the site has well over 6000. The links to other 5 sites from this one are not being factored in since they don't show using link: for other sites.

The difference between this site and the other 5 is that this one has almost all the links coming from those 5 sites, while they have many incoming links from other websites than ours as well.

Is it the ratio of incoming vs. outgoing links that is causing the problem? If I give more backlinks to the first site from several other websites, will it be fine? Or do I need to remove all the links from the sub-pages of all my sites? Thanks in advance for any suggestion.

Hissingsid




msg:167632
 9:47 am on Dec 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nonsense, pure speculation.
1. The big webhosters host millions of sites on 1 IP.
2. Remember that Google is a 'page' search engine, not a 'site' search engine, it doesn't even care if the links are 'internal' or incoming (from other 'sites').

Hi,

Just interested, on what basis are you saying pure speculation?

I've definately seen evidence to the contrary in patent applications, statements by Google reps and by observation. In fact I'm in the process of moving one site to a different IP range.

Best wishes

Sid

Trax




msg:167633
 9:56 am on Dec 22, 2003 (gmt 0)

i can confirm what plasma said
its pure speculation
i have sites linked together on the same ip and have no problems whereas i others link together on unique ips and have problems...

there are other reasons for problems

experienced




msg:167634
 6:26 am on Dec 23, 2003 (gmt 0)

Me also observing this problem with my sites. allmost every site except hosted on diferent server. I have more then 35 sites hosted on the ane server with the same ip. Except these sites i also have hosted som of my other sites on other server. Sites hosted on the same server on the same ip got dropped(4 sites). And the sites on the different servers doing well this time also.

Second thing is the site hosted on the same server having a link to the site hosted on a third server. and the third server site now dropped (PR7):(

So i think this is not the thing that we are discussing everytime. We must think some think else to find out the solution. same Ip's, intra linking of the project, using <h1> tags or seo techniques, incomming links to the same company project. Becomming tooooo complicated. We need to do something new this time.

Your views..

Thanks
Exp...

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