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This 122 message thread spans 5 pages: < < 122 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 > >     
Google Opens R&D Lab in India
"...Google plans to open an engineering r&d center in Bangalore..."
mattdwells




msg:99606
 4:48 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

[story.news.yahoo.com...]

 

mayor




msg:99666
 9:40 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

There a lot of good people in India that are as deserving of a good job as we are in America.

Sure, it pisses me off to see good jobs going offshore, but on the flip side we're all residents of the same planet and have wants and needs for ourselves and our families, no matter which side of globe we live on, and we all play a role in the well-being of worldwide commerce.

Think outside the USofA box and maybe we can step back and see that what's good for India, or anywhere else on the globe, is good for us in one way or another.

mat_bastian




msg:99667
 9:41 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

mattdwells

Just call it offshoring and all arguement on that petty, semantic front will stop.

mil2k




msg:99668
 9:41 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am a graduate of IIT and my experience is quite different from your perception, probably formed from reading/watching media reports.

I guessed that from your name :)

As about the perceptions ... U cannot deny the hell through which a person has to go through just to qualify for an IIT. And it does select the top brains in the country (untill you go into the murkier issue of reservation policies.)

Which IIT were you from btw?

I agree... that is exactly why we need more localization not globalization.

Don't you think its too late now? The process for globalization (at least in my country has started 13 years ago). Now we again revert back to localization?

Until there is a system of fair trade we should not be involved in the current system of free trade.

I think that is what WTO is doing right now?

plumsauce




msg:99669
 9:41 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)


Americans want (and mostly get) full access to markets in other countries

free trade in north america was an invention of
the americans. mexico and canada were bludgeoned
into acceptance. no one on the street thought it
was a good idea, but it made fantastic photo-ops
for the politicians. now the pigeons have come
home to roost. when a topic becomes frequent
on cnn, you know the general population is
taking notice.

IITian




msg:99670
 9:46 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

mat_bastion
>The working class as a whole is getting jobbed in this scenario.

I agree with you.

IITian




msg:99671
 9:51 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

mil2k>
I am from IIT Bombay. BSEE, MSCS, MBA. (GMAT, GRE: 99%++). Other professional credentials too. Over decade of experience.

In my last job in Berkeley (California), was paid far less than a typical fresh graduate while made to work 60+ hours per week while Caucasian colleagues hardly showed up for work. Currently unemployed.
Reality check. ;)

Robino




msg:99672
 9:53 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

So they shouldn't try to hire great people, shouldn't grow the business and shouldn't potentially create more jobs worldwide (including the US)?

Shame on you Google!

I want a congressional inquiry immediately!


john316




msg:99673
 9:55 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sending jobs to India in any form is routinely reffered to by the media as Outsourcing [news.google.com]. Google could tell the media that elves are looking for search results and they would print it.

I think AV has their semantics [altavista.com] working a little better than google.

[edited by: john316 at 9:57 pm (utc) on Dec. 13, 2003]

BigDave




msg:99674
 9:56 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

IITian,

The way to get Indians into the top ranks of a company is for them to start the company. The same goes for any other group that complains about that. It really isn't all about discrimination.

As for the lack of diversity, that is just the way it is in many fields. The vast majority of system level programmers in the USA are white males. Women generally aren't interested, and most ethnic groups seem to be drawn to other areas of programming as well.

They also draw from the top universities, especially stanford, where the majority of the student body are from the more privileged classes.

The diversity has improved a lot in the last couple of decades, but it is still going to take quite a bit of time before it levels out.

mattdwells




msg:99675
 10:02 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yeah, they've picked many a fruit from Stanford. Why not the other schools, too? If they really wanted the top 100 best experts in the world, why did they hire so many people from Stanford?

My point is there's still plenty of good pickins here, especially given the current widespread unemployment rates.

[edited by: mattdwells at 10:02 pm (utc) on Dec. 13, 2003]

mat_bastian




msg:99676
 10:02 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

So they shouldn't try to hire great people, shouldn't grow the business and shouldn't potentially create more jobs worldwide (including the US)?

Shame on you Google!

I want a congressional inquiry immediately!

It's bigger than google. The fact that google is now offshoring/outsourcing is a symptom of a the problem of multinational corporations forcing the working class into international competition based on pricing.

This doesn't sound so bad on the surface, but it will ultimately only benefit those doing the employing not the employee. This is going to eventually downwardly for Americans equalize wages internationally and skyrocket profits for those corps and the major shareholders in those companies. The wage gap between the working class and the coporate heads is going to be unfathomable.

gopi




msg:99677
 10:04 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

mattdwells . lets forget about all this outsourcing-globalization crap for a minute and talk about the issue in hand - *Google setting up a Indian Develpoment Centre and hire 100 Engineers*

Do you truely believe they went there just to save cost - how much they can save on 100 Engineeers?...Even if you take the high end of 100k/engineer , its just 10 Million USD . Do you truely think that the hottest Internet company which is valued at a 20 billion USD went through all those government red tape procedures to setup a indian subsidiary to save a pesky 10 Million - me thinks not!

Its basic supply chain concept - "be close to the resource supply" .
Texaco has middleast presence because Oil is abundant there ... An Software company goes to India because its main raw material (programmers) is available abundant in Indian Mines :)

mattdwells




msg:99678
 10:12 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

gopi,

I think there's about as many or more software engineers available here in the U.S. than India. And a lot of them are immigrants from India anyhow, and very talented. How many hundreds of thousands of H1-B visas were granted in the last few years? How many are unemployed? That's why I think the decision was based on cost. It's probably the primary reason many corporations offshore to India, although not all will admit it directly.

mil2k




msg:99679
 10:15 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't see a future for this thread. Violated WW TOS.

But just for the record I would have liked a sales office over here than a research centre :)

mattdwells




msg:99680
 10:30 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Does anyone know why was this thread was removed from the front page list of headlines?

mat_bastian




msg:99681
 10:40 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

what TOS was violated?

IITian




msg:99682
 10:51 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

One thing I have felt was that this tendency to outsouce to India hurts India the most. It is like when I go to Hawaii and see the entire biodiversity of islands lost because pineapple growers decided to grow only pineapples for export to the USA.

In India, because there is chance to make money by going for software industry, either at home or abroad, vast majority of the talented Indians go for these jobs regardless of their natural talents. Most of my classmates from IITs - which is the most selective school in India - regardless of their majors whether it was mechanical engineering or material sciences, are currently writing programs for some American company, either in India or abroad.

On the whole, if one goes to India, one will find that all other branches of human achievement has suffered a lot. A person who could be a painter and paint really nicely is most probably writing software for a company in Bangalore. Looks like India is doomed and will have an elite class of about 5 million or so who will be writing software for companies like Google while the rest of the country goes to dogs.

Google's founders and investors will do well, though, while talking loudly about how they love their work and are not in it for the money.

JasonHamilton




msg:99683
 10:52 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's starting to look like the ToS that was violated is the one that says "Never speak ill of google"

mattdwells




msg:99684
 10:58 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

IITian,

I do not think you are alone. There seems to be an anti-globalization movement going on, to, as you said, protect
regional biodiversity and cultural identity.

I would suspect that Google's research scientists and engineers in California would not be too excited about this move, either, if they valued their jobs.

mattdwells




msg:99685
 11:23 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey! They changed the title on me. Originally I entitled this thread: "Google Outsourcing R&D to India" and GoogleGuy probably changed, or had it changed, to "Google Opens R&D Lab in India".

So Google controls this forum after all. Well, so much for freedom of speech.

And yes, JasonHamilton, you are exactly right: we spoke ill of Google and got censored. This is living proof.

GoogleGuy




msg:99686
 11:56 pm on Dec 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

They changed the title on me. Originally I entitled this thread: "Google Outsourcing R&D to India" and GoogleGuy probably changed, or had it changed, to "Google Opens R&D Lab in India".
So Google controls this forum after all. Well, so much for freedom of speech.

I had nothing to do with it, mattdwells. I rarely, if ever, bug the mods about stuff like that (maybe two titles in two years). Given the amount of posts where people have pointed out that it's not outsourcing (including the original article), perhaps one of the mods thought that "opens an R&D lab" was a more accurate title. But I had nothing to do with it.

IITian




msg:99687
 12:04 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

BigDave
They also draw from the top universities, especially stanford, where the majority of the student body are from the more privileged classes.

Not too far from Palo Alto, is UC Berkeley where Asian-Americans seem to dominate technical fields at undergraduate level at the famous research university. While Google can go all the way to India - about 180 degrees from here - to find the 'best' engineers, couldn't it hire these Asian-Americans who are about 30 miles far from Palo Alto?

heini




msg:99688
 12:10 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

The thread has been taken off the homepage because you guys turned this immidiately into a full fledged political discussion. And we don't do politics. Period.
As to Google: sheez, you don't happen to read much on the G forums here, right? :)

IITian




msg:99689
 12:16 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

The next news I am hoping to read about Google is that it opens up a R&D office in Germany and hires 1000 Germans since Germans are considered to be among the best in the world - much better than Indians - when it comes to R&D in engineering. Of, course cost should not be a factor since Google is looking for quality only.

mattdwells




msg:99690
 12:19 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

heini,

This is a discussion about Information Technology jobs.

That is, after all, exactly what the article is about. Google hiring people in India.

If no discussion on that was wanted then why was the article headlined in the first place?

I am confused.

What's your definition of "politics"?

[edited by: mattdwells at 12:35 am (utc) on Dec. 14, 2003]

lawboy




msg:99691
 12:20 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Whatever the definition of outsource is, you can be assured that the trend towards India will reduce wages for tech professionals. US workers are getting the shaft because their bargaining power is being diluted by cheap labor overseas.

West of Willamette




msg:99692
 1:01 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm still hoping Google outsources more jobs to their Seattle office (...please...) :.)

superpower




msg:99693
 1:34 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey I think it's cool that GoogleGuy is here and somebody at Google cares about this discussion. I wonder if other people from MSN, Yahoo etc. would do the same. I take what he says at face value.

Having said that Google is becoming a public corporation (soon) with a primary responsibility to it's shareholders, not to the citizens of the USA (in general), nor the USA government, nor Webmasters. If it can get cheaper labor with the necessary quality, then good for them (within reason -- if they found some loopholes to screw the USA out of taxes that would be a different story).

I know small entrepeneurs who paid foreign programmers 20% of what it would have cost for Americans. They could not have done the job without less expensive programming. Granted the quality was slightly less and needed some oversight but it was still doable. Good for the foreign programmers. It keeps things interesting.

Besides as an American I would rather let them take care of some of these other labor-intensive tasks (manual algos and checking websites) while I concentrate on more interesting items.

mattdwells




msg:99694
 1:34 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

WW Important Headlines:
"Google Disables the -foo -foo2 Florida Search Switch"
"Froogle Link now on main Google page"

Unimportant:
"Google Outsources R&D to India"

Gotta keep tabs on that -foo -foo2 switch!

lawboy




msg:99695
 1:48 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

"If it can get cheaper labor with the necessary quality, then good for them"

And bad for workers.

mattdwells




msg:99696
 1:54 am on Dec 14, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy,

Why don't you tell heini (or whomever) to restore the title and put the link back on the headlines so your company can face the music, fair and square.

Where are you and heini going for dinner tonight? ; )

This 122 message thread spans 5 pages: < < 122 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 > >
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