| 5:59 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Finally they have come to there senses. Pre over 200 sites all in the top 3 positions for thier main, most competitive keywords. Completely out the door in the Florida update. But I see they have at least toned down the power of the filter, from Average search position of 146 sites main keywords:
Pre Florida 1.34
Post Florida 8.24
Please let this sitck.
PS -asdfasf to the search and they are again all back pre - florida.
This is what was intended by Google all along and I'm quite sure the original filter was out just to feel the vibs out here. I'll take 6,7,8,9,10,11,.... positions anytime ranther than the 20 page, right next to Orville Redenbacher popcorn factory :)
| 6:25 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
It occurs to me that IF this is a filter we are seeing there are multiple adjustments that can be made. For instance it can be tweaked as to how easily the filter is tripped, and it can also be tweaked as to how severe the penalty would be if you have tripped the filter.
| 6:25 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
oops they are cranking on the nob again. positions dropping slowly :(
| 6:30 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>This is what was intended by Google all along
How do you know that? ;)
| 6:34 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Well i refuse to believe they are that stupid and what amazing data they must have pulled from this
| 6:43 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>i refuse to believe they are that stupid
Well, I guess stupidity could be one explanation. A more likely one is that the results are not erroneous in the collective mind of Google, these are in fact exactly the types of results they were hoping for, and there will be no rollback.
Of course, I'm a little cynical. Let's hope you're right. :)
To get back to the topic, I have seen no evidence of any significant shift across several different city-specific terms that I follow.
| 6:48 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
90% of my terms are city related and im seeing a 100% shift across the board
| 6:50 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
looks like all changes mentioned have reverted back to the -dc index where it started
| 6:57 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
>>To get back to the topic, I have seen no evidence of any significant shift across several different city-specific terms that I follow.
--What I'm seeing -dc:
'mytinytown mystate myproduct' = dancing pg 1-2, last 3 weeks--+1000 results--DEAD
'mynearestbigcity mystate myproduct' = still FL
| 6:58 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think what we are seeing now is a just a slap on the hand to let us know that we need to:
#1 look at other PPC revenue streams
#2 look more into Froogle
#3 realize that google is not happy with the across the board manipulation of its index.
#4 don't think that google will allow its search engine to passively had money to sites trying to take advantage of there market share online.
#5 or possibly its just a warning for thinks to come
or they wont crack back the nob on the filter and thousands and thousands of online mom and pop shops will die.
| 7:28 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
moving across now showing again on www2 www3 and -dc. still holding.
If the filter was applied 90% during florida its was shown a few hours ago at around 25% and is now hovering around a 40-50% filter strength.
Checked the SERP in 4 different continents they are all show this data. Anyone else going to pipe up.
| 7:38 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I wish I could get myself to hope that this will finally put all the filter-ite and adwords-ite and black helicopter theories to bed, but bad ideas die hard. At first look, sites lost are being added back as fresh, and ranking somewhat weaker since they aren't getting the full benefit of all their algorithmic assets. Pure spam drivel is not coming back in full force. There is certainly more useless spammy junk on -dc but the Florida algo is clearly holding. DMOZ/Google/Yahoo directory pages ranking, if anything, even a bit better.
The new algorithm is a dramatic improvement over the old. There is no "filter". In two weeks or a month the genuine/quality "lost" sites should regain their approximate previous rankings, while previous trivial/insubstantial and spam-family mini-webs won't be. (Although new trivial and spam sites will appear as fresh continually.)
Those folks who ran off and changed their headers and "de-optimized" will of course pay for their foolishness for a bit longer.
Thanks Google for the positive steps. Death to the anchor text algo. Happy Holidays.
| 7:46 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Earth is round!
We are again back to same situation - wait and watch
| 7:49 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Not exactly sure where you were going with your post there steveb. I dont believe there is any question certain keywords are being filtered and ranked lower than there actual true positions should be in the actual algo.
While many sites in the new index are updated fresh, I see no corrilation between this and the current rankings on www2 www3 and -dc. This is plain and simple the filter is taking a lesser stance against optimization.
| 7:55 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Anchor Text oriented algo is still in full force for "non $$$" KWS atleast.
I added 90 pages content 48 hours back, it was indexed 30 hours back and started showing on all DCs.
Now again its gone (the newly added content)from SERP at all DCS.
| 7:56 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Your logic fails me. Its like when chndru says the columbus real estate serps are good. I just don't understand it.
|I wish I could get myself to hope that this will finally put all the filter-ite and adwords-ite and black helicopter theories to bed, |
Some of us may take offense to that.
|There is certainly more useless spammy junk on -dc but the Florida algo is clearly holding. |
DMOZ=Google Directory=Duplicate Content
|DMOZ/Google/Yahoo directory pages ranking, if anything, even a bit better. |
Personally, I am excited for myself and our colleagues.:)
| 8:02 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
well said powdork this is huge it shows that google is listening and needs to listen. I hope they turn that knob back another notch or 2. 4 hours ago i was showing some really good results. But i can handle top 15 for a while till it all settles.
| 8:14 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
If the mods will indulge me one more time I will post a search i sent claus. 'Maybe' this will help to show you there is a penalty/filter before it becomes unrecognisable.
frost vacation rentals- you see them because the money words are under the threshold of moneyword/countedqueryword of ~70%.
frost vacation rentals tahoe which pumps the moneyword/countedqueryword ratio up to 75% invoking a filter on the set of results (what amounts to a penalty for the individual sites).
You have just refined a search to make it more general and irrelevant. They dont' show up for their own name!
3. The disadvantage or painful consequences resulting from an action or condition
Our only condition is relevance.
| 8:29 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
If you think Tahoe is bad, try Hawaii or any of its islands, such as Maui. Google sunk them all; they're at the bottom of the Pacific.
I don't care if you're interested in a vacation there, looking for condos, or just like the taste of Kona coffee. Gone, Gone, Gone.
| 8:43 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Yes, i have spoken with some via email and sticky. And seen the damage. One would expect vegas was hit and I imagine long island/hamptons as well, though I haven't checked.
| 9:01 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
moving over to google.com! looking good:) yipeeeeee
| 9:37 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
People who think Google has changed or relented are as doomed as the poor souls who went and made their sites worse.
One more time. It's plainly obvious there is no "filter". Sites are being ranked differently, not filtered.
If sites were being filtered, then the sites *not* being filtered would would be unaffacted, right? That's the point of the word "not", right?
But of course that is not what is happening. One site might be ranked #3 and #9 under the old and new algorithms, and another site might be ranked #8 and #6 under the old and new algorithm. If there was a "filter" the first site would always be above the second.
Then what about the sites that are ranked #30 the old way, and jump up to #2, ahead of both of the above sites? Using the word "filter" is betraying a lack of understanding of what is going on here.
People who fixate on their own sites will never see a bigger picture. Far more sites were not "lost" by the new algorithm. They just shifted around, sometimes dramatically. The addition of some fresh sites now just shifts sites around again.
Florida is an algorithm. Deal with it. It is here to stay until they alter the algorithm again. Anyone who is sitting there thinking the old, pre-florida anchor text algorithm has returned because their site has returned simply has no idea what is going on. Such delusion will not serve you well.
The changes on -dc are a small adjustment, and here's the main thing, during the hysteria that that the filter-ites have created, people have posted more than once that the next significant influx of fresh material would likely bring back many/most of the deserving sites that got lost (whether they tweaked the algo or not). For the most part, very little has changed on -dc. The massive algo changes are still in place.
Expect that the freshly returned sites will usually be a little bit weaker than before. Expect that they will improve within a month or so. Expect that well optimized, good content sites will continue do well under the new, more rational and complex algorithm.
Most important, be aware that the major change in the algorithm that is known as "florida" is still there. It is a massive and even historic shift in emphasis. At its root, despite some problems, it is a very, very good thing (assuming you have quality content). Perhaps with the return of some nice lost sites, people will have a better appreciation of the major improvements.
| 9:54 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
well i beg to differ on this being a small adjustment as my sites have moved up on average over 500 places. These are sites that have been in the index for years. Secondly, I have no understanding how you are still denying there is a filter being placed here. Just add -asfea3a to your search request and you recieve pre-florida results, are you saying that by adding that suffix to your result that google then places it under a completely different algorithym? that is not only unlikely but nearly impossible.
|If sites were being filtered, then the sites *not* being filtered would would be unaffacted, right? That's the point of the word "not", right? |
The listings in thousands of commercial search terms that I have researched show almost identical results using a nonsense word filter as before the filter was applied. Sites are moving because other sites are dropping off the map and because some sites have optimized for google more than other thus filtered more than others. There is always algo tweaking going on, but this is not the root of the issue.
| 10:03 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think the fact that the algorithmic changes on-dc are still present but many sites are returning suggests that the algo is untouched, but the 'sentencing' portion of the filter (if it exists) has been reduced.
| 10:06 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
yes powdork, they are just playing with its effectivness and monitoring the results. I am very suprised to see it slipping over to ggogle.com so quickly though someone must have triggered the panic button over ther on the google plex. I think its about time for google guy to throw out some explanations
| 10:09 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I think thats just how fast they've gotten. The boxes keep getting quiker and quiker.
|I am very suprised to see it slipping over to ggogle.com so quickly though someone must have triggered the panic button over ther on the google plex. I think its about time for google guy to throw out some explanations |
| 11:28 am on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
"adding that suffix to your result that google then places it under a completely different algorithym?"
That's been obvious from the first day.
Add the suffix, ignore the removed sites, the remaining sites are ranked differently. This part of things isn't in doubt.
Forget about your own sites and how much they move. Look at the complete picture. I have one page that I'm trying to get out of the index that has had ten fresh tags since I changed its title, but if you search for the terms in the old title, there it is sitting in the top 5, with the six week old title. Search for text on the current page, and it shows up with a fresh tag and an accurate cache. It's bizarre that the old version is living somewhere, available to come up for specific searches. A page that now says "red" on it (and has been fresh tagged daily for over month in its current state) will come up for searches for "blue" because "blue" was on the page in the summer. The point is, if I focused on that, I'd be sitting here thinking that getting pages OUT of the index was a major problem, rather than what faces many people in getting them ranked appropriately.
Regardless, the main thing people should be considering is the florida algo continues, and the de-optimizers were all wet.
| 12:01 pm on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
Do you think that the results on -dc and www2 and 3 will migrate to www as we have moved up 100 places after de-optimizing our website slightly.
| 12:15 pm on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I would guess -dc would spread to the others, but we have seen a few times recently where one datacenter looks like it is going to take the lead, and then it turns out to not do so, with another datacenter apparently ending up being more mature and that one spreads out. In other words, maybe -dc won't spread, but the good part of -dc will be added to -va (or whatever) along with extra ingredients. Certainly there is still a ton of removal of redirect and duplicate sites that could be done, so maybe -dc is just doing a John the Baptist routine for another datacenter.
| 12:52 pm on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
I see the -dc results on www
| 12:55 pm on Dec 7, 2003 (gmt 0)|
we dont in the uk yet.
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