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This 75 message thread spans 3 pages: 75 ( [1] 2 3 > >     
Is Galen in full force?
Sure I'm seeing a rollback/update
oodlum




msg:64848
 5:05 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm definitely I'm seeing a major rollback/update across several terms I monitor.

SERPS for these terms

a) have the two word phrase highlighted all throughout the titles and snippets
b) are the same whether or not -fdsafdsa is used (or very, very close)

It seems to be a major softening of the filter. Some KWs I'm looking at still have some results missing, but not nearly as many.

The rollback seems to be gradual. city1 KW1 may not be affected, but city2 KW1 is.

 

skipfactor




msg:64849
 5:31 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

What datacenters?

oodlum




msg:64850
 5:38 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Live - main Google. I'm in Australia, but I've confirmed several through all 10 DCs.

TheDave




msg:64851
 5:43 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yep, seeing some changes for keywords that are more about information than money words. Money words unchanged, which makes me think this filter refers to a dictionary, and they're now tweaking that dictionary.

oodlum




msg:64852
 5:47 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Could be, but I think it's more likely they've softened the filter. I'm seeing it for many money terms. Some have a couple of results missing according to the -fddfgsdfgs test, but a lot less than before.

If they were tweaking a dictionary I would have thought it would be all or nothing for a given search term.

quotations




msg:64853
 6:10 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I don't see any changes on any of the data centers for any of the technology key phrases that they have hosed up.

They are still rewarding spammer scammers over technical competency.

superscript




msg:64854
 6:19 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

There have certainly been changes: top WWW1-3 result for significant KW1 KW2 I've been monitoring is now an error page.

Chndru




msg:64855
 6:25 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

And Galen is a what? thought this update was called Florida?

vrtlw




msg:64856
 6:30 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I too have been seeing many changes for about the last 3 hours

superscript




msg:64857
 6:31 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Galen is the new term for post-Florida. It is supposed to mean 'healing', but is actually the name of an early Roman/Greek (can't recall) physician, who thought the human heart had only 2 chambers, and did experiments on live dogs. Pretty apt I think!

oodlum




msg:64858
 6:36 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

LOL!

Powdork




msg:64859
 6:42 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

no, no, no, no
It's Galen Hall, former UF football (oblong) coach who brought the gator football program out of their probationary period to win their first sec championship.;)

vrtlw




msg:64860
 6:47 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

googles define:galen search reveals:

The noun "galen" has 1 sense.

1. Galen -- (Greek anatomist whose theories formed the basis of European medicine until the Renaissance (circa 130-200))

I wonder how many results are missing due to a filter :)

[edited by: vrtlw at 6:48 am (utc) on Dec. 3, 2003]

superscript




msg:64861
 6:48 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's Galen Hall, former UF football (oblong) coach

I'm sorry to hear he is oblong - was he involved in some sort of accident?

1. Galen -- (Greek anatomist whose theories formed the basis of European medicine until the Renaissance (circa 130-200))

I wonder how many results are missing due to a filter :)

Agreed - but I haven't seen many 'Galens' on sale recently :)

edit: I'm tempted to put up an Adword for 'Cheap Galens' and see whether this info is still available in a couple of weeks time!

[edited by: superscript at 6:54 am (utc) on Dec. 3, 2003]

steveb




msg:64862
 6:52 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

All datacenters basically the same here, with -ustsrs still bringing up anchor text based results. (And www isn't a datacenter; what you see on it isn't necessarily what other people see; the datacenters rotate.)

vrtlw




msg:64863
 6:56 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Agreed - but I haven't seen many 'Galens' on sale recently

Except for in the travel industry! S-Croogle shows quite a few up

quotations




msg:64864
 7:02 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I still don't see any changes but perhaps having to talk to Reuters and tell them this nonsense is taking its toll?

[biz.yahoo.com...]

"This particular change affected more people, but our testing shows there was a significant quality improvement for our users," said Rosing.

Powdork




msg:64865
 7:03 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm sorry to hear he is oblong - was he involved in some sort of accident?
I was referring to the ball, but now that I think of it, he was a bit oblong as well.;)
And actually, he didn't bring them out of probation, he replaced the coach that was fired over the infractions that brought about the probation. And the sec championship they won was later stripped away.:(

Ok, I think its named after the healer.

TheDave




msg:64866
 7:25 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

>If they were tweaking a dictionary I would have thought it would be all or nothing for a given search term.

Thats a good point, and I wasnt paying close enough attention to notice if it was all or nothing. I can't imagine google implementing a dictionary it just doesn't sit with their whole "approach everything with an algo" philosophy.

I'm starting to see some new and interesting referals come through now, and none of them have been off topic. There's just this one particular keyword that the results won't budge from what's there. 90/100 sites were filtered out with this update, and in the top 20 or so I still havn't seen any of the ones I recognise make a return.

The top 10 currently sits at:

#1 irrelevant but I dont mind it being there (searchers would use a more exact phrase to find this site I would imagine)
#2 "fake" information site set up by business. I could live with this one being there too, only because I've thought of doing the same ;) Only a bit more content that this guy.
#3 road-kill - literally - yuk
#4 A "review" by a single person (blogish) on his experience buying widgets in his country through the internet. He is scathing to all but 1 shop. 5 stars to 1 shop, 1 or 2 stars to every other shop. No, mine is not on there, but I feel sorry for the shops that are there. I actually find this result more offensive that the road-kill one. And the road-kill one has always bugged me (it's moved up since the update due to sites dropping)
#6 legit shop, not to bad, can live with it being there (image navigation noted for someone who asked)
#7 another legit shop, but only 1 page which has very little text, and points to their new domain
#8 yahoo shop
#9 rather obscure but still kind of on topic. You'd expect people to be searching for this site with a slightly more exact phrase though.
#10 a good page of content. once again a searcher would probably use a more exact phrase to find this site though.

When this top 10 changes, I will know there has been a major shift because it has been steady post florida. There was one small movement, a couple swapped places.

I hope this isn't disallowed, I spent a lot of time editing it down but then ended up typing more.

Powdork




msg:64867
 8:34 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Remember, when the sites went away it happened in more than one step. At least two major cullings, one on the 14th-15th and one on the 21st. In my area it was first the top two sites, then all the rest with a couple staying present until the bitter end on one datacenter. That leads me to also believe it would be a weakening of a filter (if I could see it).

I think your post was sufficiently vague unless #3 is literally road-kill.com ;)

rfgdxm1




msg:64868
 9:24 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

>"This particular change affected more people, but our testing shows there was a significant quality improvement for our users," said Rosing.

Are you sure this isn't true? Remember, WebmasterWorld doesn't exactly have a random cross-section of searchers.

As for Galen being in force, there is no update. There may be filter tweaking, though.

Hissingsid




msg:64869
 9:43 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

It seems to be a major softening of the filter. Some KWs I'm looking at still have some results missing, but not nearly as many.

Hi,

I'm comming to the conclusion that the "Engineers" at Google are doing a large scale experiment with Bayesian probabilistic spam filtering. Bayesian filtering works like this. If it looks like spam it probably is spam.

If your email client or ISP is offering spam filtering it/they are probably using Bayesian filtering. For emails this form of spam filtering is about 99.7% accurate, from the figures I've read, and from personal experience. Whenever I go to clear out my spam in box I usually find a couple of messages which are not spam. So far this has done no real harm as important messages, not responded to, seem to cause an alternative form of communication. I get between 30 and 100 emails a day so would expect one or two false positives each week.

99.7% simply is not good enough for a search engine though for a number of reasons.

1. The number of sites filtered is so massive that the 0.3% false positives is a really big deal.

2. Worse, much worse, than this is the fact that the false positives are almost certainly going to be skewed heavily towards the first few hundred results (pre filter). In my niche 86 of the top 100 have been filtered out and I know from bitter experiance that not all of those are what any normal person would categorise as spam sites.

3. It is VERY EASY to fall into the trap of looking like spam even if your site does not use any spam techniques.

In our case I think that we have been listed in a number of directories, not at our instigation, with a link including the dreaded filtered words. This is exaserbated by the fact that Espotting affiliate sites appear to be presenting our Espotting ads in what appear to be static pages, resulting in multiple links back to our site including those filtered words and because there are multiple sites carrying the same ad I suspect this is making us look like a spamming site. Couple this with pages and an internal site structure which is well optimized and you could have something which, while it does not breach any of Googles guidelines, still, none the less, looks like it may be a spam site.

If we do not reappear after the next major update my strategy is going to based on a simple premis. If my site doesn't look like its a spam site the filter will not think it is one. What that actually means in terms of what I have on my pages and what I do to remove our site from directories etc is a bit more challenging ;-)

Best wishes

Sid

John_Caius




msg:64870
 11:14 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree. Two of my client sites have been significantly affected by the Florida update, both are plain and simple HTML sites, no online sales, no online advertising, one a content site, one a corporate site. In both cases, content and linking structure has been specifically designed with the user in mind, no hidden text, keyword stuffing etc. In both cases, the site has disappeared from searches with certain keywords. It appears as though the effects of the Florida update have only impacted on certain keyphrases. In one case, my client used to rank number one for two uncompetitive keyphrases, "blue fluffy widgets" and "fluffy widgets". The site is still at number one for "blue fluffy widgets" but has disappeared completely from "fluffy widgets".

Add to this my own site, with a homepage PR of 7 but PR 0 for all internal pages for the last month, ever since we moved to the new server, so traffic remains in the doldrums.

Hoping for a change in fortunes soon. When you've tried to present good quality content with a user-friendly interlinking structure and clear, simple, spiderable HTML, you should expect 'improvements' in the search algorithm to benefit your site's rankings, not harm them. I remain confused as to Google's logic in this case.

kaled




msg:64871
 11:45 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Galen who?

A sign of too much TV in my youth but to me, Galen was a chimp in the film/series Planet of the Apes. Who chose the name?

Senior members may remember a thread I started many moons ago on hidden text.

Sorry - feeling frivolous.

Kaled.

Big_Dug




msg:64872
 11:51 am on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Galen was a Roman physician who was centuries ahead of his time in medical and anatomical knowledge.

I think whoever named the next Google "update" after a healer is being a little hopeful.

Widestrides




msg:64873
 12:01 pm on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I wondered if anyone had tried to contact Google, so I took a shot myself. Here is my question and the company reply. They are not admitting to any glitch or new algo. Send them your screen shots if you see poor and irrelevant SERPS.

<snip>

[edited by: engine at 3:44 pm (utc) on Dec. 3, 2003]
[edit reason] No e-mails, see TOS [webmasterworld.com] [/edit]

killroy




msg:64874
 12:26 pm on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well, two terms "buy widget" and "buy wodget" cost me 30% of my traffic... now one is fully back, same with -fsdfds as without.

Theother one is still screwed up. You can call me biased all you want, but if the search "buy widget" brings up ONE widget wholeseller, 1 site with a personal story about buying cars and then taking a leak and seeing a widget out the window, and 8 sites selling "guaranteed widget-free gudgets" which are certainly NOT what a searcher usign "buy widget" as their search is looking for.

Anyways, one out of two... at least my earnings are back to around 80%! I can live with that...

SN

trillianjedi




msg:64875
 12:40 pm on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

I like the name, but it's not an update.

As rfdxm1 says, perhaps some fliter tweaking going on.

TJ

oodlum




msg:64876
 12:41 pm on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Congrats, Killroy

killroy




msg:64877
 12:49 pm on Dec 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

Not so quick... the last missing term used to make about 50% of my sales :/ And it's not over yet, looks like google Is up for some ping-pong...

SN

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