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What Really Helps to Get a Good Position?
Lets share our experiences
AjiNIMC




msg:188417
 3:44 am on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi,

Lets do some refreshing work, what exactly helps in google positoning (#1 dream). I request all others to share experiences.

Tips 1 Url choosing
-----------------------
kw1-kw2.com is better than kw1kw2.com

Lets share other factors
-------------------------
1)what is optimum keyword density?
2)short title is better or longer?
3)which one is better "kw1 kw2" or just "kw1" as anchor text for kw1?
4)having h1, h2,h3, h4 for kw1 will help or just h1 and h2 is more effective?
5)what is the penalty for duplicate contents?
6)what is the weigtage given to links?

many more......... ask questions and give answers. lets learn as much as possible from others experience.share whatever you seems will help others. give an increment to tips number.

Hope to see a very useful thread here. All geeks lets help each other.

Thanks
Aji

 

jcoronella




msg:188418
 2:19 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Links. It's all about the incoming links and incoming link text. That other stuff is garnish.

trillianjedi




msg:188419
 2:33 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

What really helps to get a good position in Google?

**At the moment** (google is always subject to change)

In order of importance:-

1. Anchor Text
2. Anchor Text
3. Anchor Text

etc

What helps you get good anchor text?

1. Good page titles.
2. Write good emails when you request links.
3. Choose URL carefully. Or go for brandname. Personally I prefer brandname, but that is for seperate discussion (and it's been had many times here). If you go brandname, it means more work as anchor text will be slightly trickier to get.
4. Keywords in subdirectories and page in the URL (e.g. www.brandname.com/widget-reviews/bloggs-widget.html).

TJ

layer8




msg:188420
 3:07 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google aslo like fresh content, regular change = regular crawl:)

AthlonInside




msg:188421
 3:43 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)


1)what is optimum keyword density?
2)short title is better or longer?
3)which one is better "kw1 kw2" or just "kw1" as anchor text for kw1?
4)having h1, h2,h3, h4 for kw1 will help or just h1 and h2 is more effective?
5)what is the penalty for duplicate contents?
6)what is the weigtage given to links?

Ohh, these must came from a book written 4 years ago for webcrawler or hotbot.

remember the magic word - ANCHOR TEXT.

WebmasterFisherman




msg:188422
 4:25 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

I personally tracked 5 websites ranking #1 for very competitive words in web development and ecommerce. All of those words have 5+ million competition.

The phenomenon:

1) They all have 3-5 times fewer incoming links to their sites than #2, #3, #4 competitors
2) 50-80% of their link are with proper anchor text exactly or almost exactly containg the words they are #1 on.
They are not always straight "widgets development" or "widgets ecommerce" but variations.
3) their #2, #3, #4 competitors bid on "plain" anchor text including just brand name or simply "www.example.com"

I followed the same practices on the same directories, some of which are even FFA.

I got my sites to page 1 on almost all those words after the last crawl.

Make your own conclusions...

Write good emails when you request links.

This is quite challenged for me as I don't offer any reciprocation and have no link development budget.

What's that golden key to the goodness of a webmaster's heart, Trillianjedi?

Where's that mob of communist webmasters:)

trillianjedi




msg:188423
 4:40 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

They all have 3-5 times fewer incoming links to their sites than #2, #3, #4 competitors

I find that extremely hard to believe. Are you sure? Have you checked for high quantities of low PR inbounds in AllTheWeb?

What's that golden key to the goodness of a webmaster's heart, Trillianjedi?

On the assumption that you have a site that is of a quality that most related sites would want to link to anyway, it's just a case of asking nicely and not making a generic email. Comment on their site - give them feedback - things you like about it, things you don't.

TJ

kosar




msg:188424
 5:18 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

can someone explain to me the just of anchor text. sorry if this has been brought up before. thx

AjiNIMC




msg:188425
 5:48 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi, nice starting. It seems it will end up with one and only one factor, anchor text

Ok then lets handle this
3)which one is better "kw1 kw2" or just "kw1" as anchor text for kw1?

my target phrase is (1)"abc def", but also tageting another phrase (2)"abc def ghi". Having "abc def ghi" will be better for the (2) but does it reduce the weight for (1).

Whether longer text as anchor text helps?

Aji

AthlonInside




msg:188426
 6:05 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

>can someone explain to me the just of anchor text

Anchor text is your link text/link title. The text that go between the <a> and </a>

AjiNIMC




msg:188427
 6:36 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

sorry kosar forgot to answer your query

can someone explain to me the just of anchor text. sorry if this has been brought up before.

Have a look, and you will get most of it.

[webmasterworld.com...]

Regards
Aji

onedumbear




msg:188428
 6:53 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Many things will help get a good position.
The thing that will keep a good position that will remain constant with all the se's is
Balance & Patience
anchor text is not the key, 13% KD is not the key, links are not the key, meta tags are not, alt text is not, h1 and h2 tags are not the key either.
Balance of all these things is the key.
Optimize your pages for the user and the se's
Use plenty of keywords, be descriptive, not spammy.
Patience...
This is especially important if you are focusing on google rankings. Just because the pages content has been updated, does not mean everything else has. Google does things in steps, if you don't wait for it to complete the steps, you will likely jump the gun, and make it harder for yourself to figure "it all out".
Learn to get better positions in a search engine that does not do everything in steps, it will be less confusing.

If you look at people's source codes, take them with a grain of salt, you may not be seeing what the se is, or the page may have been recently changed.

kosar




msg:188429
 6:54 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

<a href="http*//www.example.com/widgets.htm" title="Widgets from Example.com">
Widgets from Example.com</a>

Is this correct syntax for adding a link to my site or submitting my site if i sold widgets?

lawboy




msg:188430
 7:03 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

I just did a search for a few terms and the #1 results have little on the page optimized content, but lots of inbound anchor text. I'm starting to think it is all about anchor text.

The problem for me is that as I try to create one new page a day - per Brett's guide - I am finding it very very difficult to find the time to e-mail webmasters for anchor text that is unique to each new page I build. Having the same anchor text for many pages won't cut it, according to my sample searches on google. Each page must have inbound anchor text specfic to each page's kw.

trillianjedi




msg:188431
 7:14 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm starting to think it is all about anchor text.

LOL

;-)

TJ

onedumbear




msg:188432
 7:59 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

One of my sites has a "test" page that has remained in the # 3 position of a competitive phrase with 1,300,000 results.
"i realize that just because their are 1,300,000 results does not mean it is a competitive phrase and am aware that there are very competitve search terms that only produce about 20,000 results"
The results for this term are fairly competitive and the page of search results is filled with web site consultants, search engine submission services, and optimizing services.
This page has NO incoming links from any other sites. It has only 1 link to it from within the same site, and it's not on the homepage.
anchor is important, but it is not everything and imo it's not the most important.

lawboy




msg:188433
 8:05 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Can you sticky mail your test page and the kw for it? I'm curious.

trillianjedi




msg:188434
 8:12 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

anchor is important, but it is not everything and imo it's not the most important.

None of your "competitors" for this page has this phrase in their anchor text I suspect. And I also suspect that you have the phrase in your page title?

TJ

glengara




msg:188435
 8:26 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Shhhhhh! Will you guys keep it down?!
G has gone to great lengths to create a mythology, and you want to reveal the sordid truth?
For shame.

Sharper




msg:188436
 8:37 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

I find it to be:

KW in Anchor text pointing to page
Page PR
KW in Page Title
KW Text attributes (H's, Bold, etc...)
KW in body text

In something like that order. Can vary sometimes with less competitive searches (which is what I mostly target, it's so much easier), where a page with just body text + PR can rank pretty good since in those cases usually no-one is using the KW in anchor text or page titles.

There are probably other factors, but if so, they don't seem to be very important.

AjiNIMC




msg:188437
 8:46 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

ok we talked about anchor text, can we discuss the weightage for overall links as links means anchor text indirectly.

1)internal pages
2)external pages
3)outgoing links

sharper says
Page PR
How important is PR in good position, apart from attracting other good sites for reciprocal links.

Aji

vbjaeger




msg:188438
 9:05 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

After everything I have learned here at Webmasterworld, I used the steps from Brett's list and obtained a #4 ranking out of 5,000,000 results for a competitive keyword phrase and a top 4 listing for at least 20 other keyword phrases. For this site I did the following:

1. The domain is the name of the product: not the keyword phrase.
2. Keyword keyword keyword in Title, Description, and H1 tags.
3. Keyword Phrase mentioned once in italics, Bold, and normal.
3. Lots of Incoming links.
4. Repeated the same steps for additional pages to optimize them for other variations of the keyword phrases.
5. ALT tags on all images
6. Process of going from obscurity to #4 took 5-6 months.

However! The Number 2 site listed above is using a keywordkeywordkeyword.com domain. It took them 45 days to achieve the #2 listing with 1/5th of the number of backlinks we have.

So i decided to do an experiment. I took a smaller product we offer and decided to dedicate a site specifically to it.

We have achieved a #2 rank in 30 days. The only difference is this is a smaller market and less competitive.

For this site I used:

1. keyword-keyword-keyword.com domain
2. Keyword keyword keyword in Title, Description, and H1 tags.
3. Keyword Phrase mentioned once in italics, Bold, and normal.
4. Subpages are domain.com/keyword_keyword_keyword.htm
5. Only 10 backlinks of PR4 or higher.

What I am waiting to see is which will maintain its position longer.

Kirby




msg:188439
 9:11 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)


1)internal pages
2)external pages
3)outgoing links

I have seen no evidence that internal or external is of more value, or that outgoing links contribute a positive value.

What I have seen is anchor text making a dramatic improvement. That said, with regard to domain names, the biggest value in kw.com, kw1kw2.com, kw1-kw2.com is the natural anchor text. My kw1kw2.com benefits tremendously from anchor text that reads "kw1 kw2".

trillianjedi




msg:188440
 9:41 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

How important is PR in good position, apart from attracting other good sites for reciprocal links.

You can't seperate PR from inbound links - PR is a product of inbound links.

It follows that a site with many inbound links with anchor text will also have a decent PR score.

The two are completely related.

keyword-keyword-keyword.com

I believe web users are beginning to realise that most sites with domains like the above are junk.

TJ

steveb




msg:188441
 9:49 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

allinanchor: keyword in anchor text

allinurl: keyword in url, not smooshed together like everybody did years ago, but seperated by hyphens, with "url" including directory and page names

keyword in page title

If none of the above applies for a noncompetitive or multi-word query, then pagerank+word-on-the-page.

lawboy




msg:188442
 9:50 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Most of my pages have good PR (5 and 6) but incoming anchor text is organization's name, not kw. So, we have been not been ranking high, despite on-the-page content.

I've been playing around with anchor text on internal links and so far am beginning to see good results.

pleeker




msg:188443
 10:34 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

Anchor text is definitely an important factor, but I don't think anyone can suggest it's the only thing that matters. That seems to me to be an underestimation of how complicated / sophisticated Google's algo is. The actual content of a given page is just as important, as are the content of the title tags for a given page.

Maybe the perfect situation is when the keyword/phrase

1. appears in the title tag of the page, and
2. appears in the description tag, and
3. appears prominently in the page text, and
4. appears a few times in the page text, and
5. is used as the anchor text of incoming links

?

That seems to me like a recipe for getting a good position.

Joe_Jordan




msg:188444
 11:32 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have been linking my site for some time now, started before I found this forum. :)

Anyway, my target search term is "red thinger" but my links have all been "MyBrand red thinger". Was having MyBrand preceding my target keywords a mistake?

(sorry, I know you folks like to use the word 'widget', but that word gets on my nerves for some reason :) )

onedumbear




msg:188445
 11:36 pm on Nov 6, 2003 (gmt 0)

trillianjedi
>None of your "competitors" for this page has this phrase in their anchor text I suspect. And I also suspect that you have the phrase in your page title?
I have not checked but i would suspect the other listings on this page at least have one of the keywords for the phrase in anchor text.
You are correct that the phrase is in my meta title, but It is also in many of the other meta titles on this page of results.
PS. they are not competitors, just a test.

DerekH




msg:188446
 12:43 am on Nov 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Links. It's all about the incoming links and incoming link text. That other stuff is garnish.


<chuckle>
One of my sites uses a domain forwarder and a free ISP, so the only page that has incoming links is the home page (which is redirected to the free ISP)

The only links to inside pages on my sites are my own links.
But the inside pages are properly optimised.

Many of those inside pages come number one for their optimised keywords, but the one thing they DON'T have is carefully selected incoming links, text or anything else. All the incoming links are identical, courtesy of a Dreamweaver template.

I'm with Googleguy - Content matters.
Links are garnish.

<grin>
DerekH

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