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Trying to Un-ban our site
Apparently, we're not even banned!
shah2003




msg:59180
 1:41 am on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I work for a company that had a public outing many moons ago (more than 18 by my count), and as a result, our site was banned from Google. Not a "we think our site was banned, we swear we never did anything wrong..." ban, but a "we did wrong, and we know we got banned" ban.

Part of the problem was that there were a multitude of old style doorway pages "in the wild" that linked back to us, and many of these couldn't be taken down, due to third party laziness, more than anything.

Since then, we have got 99% of these pages taken down. So I started sending Google a few emails, repented for our sins and begged for re-inclusion. All I previously ever got was an automated response with the standard explainations of all the reasons the site might not have been found.

The latest email, however, included a very curious line at the start:
We reviewed your site, (INSERT URL HERE), and can assure you that it is not currently penalized.
Now my question is this. Does that mean we are no longer banned, or is there a subtle semantic difference between a ban and a penalty?

We are still not included, as if you search for our URL in Google, (either allinurl:URL or site:URL -asdfasdasd) it sill isn't included, so that would seem to indicate pretty strongly a penalty to me, and a pretty strong one as well.

Has anyone else ever recieved a similiar email, and does this indicate the ban is over, and we should just chill for a while waiting to be reindexed? Or is this just a cruel mistake; a new automated email that got its facts wrong?

 

dougmcc1




msg:59181
 4:25 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

is there a subtle semantic difference between a ban and a penalty?

I don't know what you mean by "semantic" difference but a banned site is removed from Googles index and a penalized site drops in rankings.

How long has your site been up? Has it ever been in Google? Do you have any backlinks from sites that are in Googles index? Do you have a robots.txt file and does it validate? Is your site SE friendly?

plasma




msg:59182
 4:41 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

The latest email, however, included a very curious line at the start:
We reviewed your site, (INSERT URL HERE), and can assure you that it is not currently penalized.
Now my question is this. Does that mean we are no longer banned, or is there a subtle semantic difference between a ban and a penalty?

Welcome to WW shah2003.

If they told you that your site isn't penalized, then it means, that your site isn't penalized.
Your problem must be somewhere else.

1. Check your logfiles if googlebot visits your site.
2. Get more incoming links.

If you want you can sticky me the url.

yaelede




msg:59183
 7:06 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have received an email from Google 20 months ago with the following line:
"Thanks for your email. We assure you that your site has not been penalized in the Google index"

After working hard for many months, I'm still banned (or penalized?)..

Only AdWords remained...money is not banned.

yaelede

PatrickDeese




msg:59184
 7:13 pm on Oct 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Are you sure that don't have a problem on the server side. There was a post recently where someone discovered that the hosting co. had banned gBot.

Also a lot of times when sites are designed in frames the noframes tag is something like:

<noframes>
This site requires frames. Please upgrade your browser.
</noframes>

Or my all time favorite:

<noframes>
<body>
</body>
</noframes>

--

this is an excellent way to prevent SEs from indexing your site.

shah2003




msg:59185
 4:47 am on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanx for the help so far. Maybe some more detailed background is required. Site was indexed, not in frames, no server errors, no problems, no issues. Backlinks in AllTheWeb 900+, including many PR 7 and by this:
..a public outing...

I mean Googleguy posted something along the lines of "this company is out of the index until further notice" on some Google forum. This was IMHO, that is a pretty solid, if not 100%, then certainly 99.99%, guarantee that we were banned. The fact not one page from the Domain is indexed after 18 moons would indicate it is ongoing.

The question: is that email an indication of the lifting of the ban, which does, or at least did until last month, exist, or is it just an automated email with its facts wrong?

...but a banned site is removed from Googles index and a penalized site drops in rankings.

Exactly my point. If a site is not penalized, does that mean it can still be banned? Are the two seperate issues or the same? DWhat does "We reviewed your site..not penalized" mean? In other words, should I be excited by the email, or remain cautiously sceptical? I am willing 2 give it 8 weeks, but I want to be excited to be back in. I miss all the "Dancing or not" debates and the like!

danny




msg:59186
 8:52 am on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

There may be purely algorithmic reasons your site isn't indexed, or isn't doing well in rankings - that is, there's no "penalty list" on which you appear, but some feature of your link structure isn't kosher as far as Google's ranking algorithm is concerned.

olderscot




msg:59187
 9:03 am on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

I suspect that if you're actually banned from google then you're dead in the water.

What did you expect? that you can hold up your hands and say "we're sorry" and all will be forgiven?

Google doesn't ban sites lightly and I would be surprised if you'll ever get back in the index. There has to be some sort of dis-incentive for the worst forms of abuse.

Mike

shah2003




msg:59188
 11:55 am on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google doesn't ban sites lightly and I would be surprised if you'll ever get back in the index.

Alright. I guess we have to live with that. I agree that Google doesn't ban sites lightly these days, but 18-24 monthes ago, they were a lot quicker with the trigger figure. Many people had problems around that time.

Still, If the site is gobne forever, that is a bit sad. Forever is a long time. Given the world wide web has been around for only 10 years, a 2 year ban is an eternity.
What did you expect?

Ah, what expected was not much. That said, why give up? I see no reason why the towel should ever be thrown in. If Google never lets me in, that is of course their right. But they are pretty much going to et an email a month from me!

That said, if the site is gone for ever, that Google would make a statement that is untrue, and bordering on a lie, in an email, by claiming that the site is not penalised and that they "reviewed" the site, is an aweful decision. I don't believedeception is an acceptable business pratice, especially in official correspondance, and I am a little let down that Google would do such a thing.

Oh well, Ce la vie! I guess all big businesses stretch the truth. It just seems sad to see Google go that way.

plasma




msg:59189
 12:18 pm on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

and bordering on a lie, in an email, by claiming that the site is not penalised and that they "reviewed" the site, is an aweful decision.

If they say that there are no penalties on your site, then there are no penalties on your site.

Check your logs.

EOT

Chris_1




msg:59190
 1:51 pm on Oct 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Start over with a clean domain name following all the rules...

Here's a question for others. Would it help them or (I'm inclinded to think) hinder them to use a 301 redirect from their "bad" name to a fresh one. I've heard that 301's transfer all link credits (and penalties?) to the new domain.

On the other hand, if penalties are also transferred, couldn't someone use that to negatively impact someone else's domain (buy a "banned" domain and 301 it to a compeitor's)?

Chris

Good_Vibes




msg:59191
 4:04 pm on Oct 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've gotten this email many times (about my site not being banned or even penalized) after taking down old doorway pages.

Everytime I waited for some results, only to get absolutely NO change.

So if I'm not penalized, why do I have a site with over 20 valuable links to it (probably about 100 total links to it), and a PR of ZERO? :(

kaled




msg:59192
 6:01 pm on Oct 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

So if I'm not penalized, why do I have a site with over 20 valuable links to it (probably about 100 total links to it), and a PR of ZERO?

Assuming that the PR is really zero, the possibilities are :-
1: Google are deliberately lying.
2: The email response team is so overworked they just tell you what you want to hear without bothering to check.
3: Google are incompetent. They do not have the means to reliably check whether a site is penalised.
4: Google are telling the truth. However, they use the word penalty for one class of punishment and a word like sanction for another class.

Kaled.

quotations




msg:59193
 6:16 pm on Oct 24, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am fairly sure it is a problem of semanitcs.

I wrote to ask why a friend's site had no backlinks listed even though there were several PR6 and dozens of PR5 links to it which were there since March. Alltheweb list 23000+ backlinks.

They wrote back to basically say:

Your site is in the index.

I wrote to say

1. Not my site.
2. I know it's in the index.
3. Why the manual penalty or banning?

They wrote to say:

We don't do that. (manual penalty)

It has to be a vocabulary problem.

Good_Vibes




msg:59194
 2:00 pm on Oct 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree Kaled, and I think it is a combination of 2, 3, AND 4.

rogerd




msg:59195
 2:41 pm on Oct 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

You aren't penalized, Shah2003, you are merely deranked. ;)

Seriously, I wouldn't rely on the e-mail from the Google tech assuring you that you aren't penalized. I had a site go PR0 and received one of those same notices after I enquired. Later contacts proved that the site had (duhhh...) been penalized. Eventually, the penalty was lifted but many months later the site has yet to make a full recovery.

pageoneresults




msg:59196
 2:54 pm on Oct 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Very few sites have recovered from penalities or bans. I believe we are talking about two different issues here. A penalty vs. a ban. If your email to Google asked if there was a penalty against your site, there may not be and their email to you was technically correct.

If you asked if there was a ban against your site and they replied with the above response using the word penalty, then there may be some slight skirting of the issue taking place.

I once had a site that got hit by the December 2001 penalties/bans. I kept it live for almost a year and finally decided that it was poisoned. Based on my own experiences and those of many who have come here seeking answers, once you are penalized or banned, your best bet is to start from scratch again.

quotations




msg:59197
 3:07 pm on Oct 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

Penalty vs Ban

If the site is in the index but shows up for no searches and has no PR and no backlinks show, would that be a penalty or a ban?

pageoneresults




msg:59198
 3:09 pm on Oct 27, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'd say it was a penalty. Sites that are banned will not show up in the index (that has been my experience).

Good_Vibes




msg:59199
 1:50 pm on Oct 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

My God, there must be a way to resurect sites that got penalties, especially when doorpages are involved.

Does anyone have a good story to tell about a penalized site that got resurected after removing their doorpages?

James_Dale




msg:59200
 4:52 pm on Oct 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

No, but I've got some good stories about great big companies politely requesting Google DO NOT penalise them - regardless of the amount of stealth delivery they use.

br33526




msg:59201
 6:16 pm on Oct 29, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have one of those sites too. 8 months old, lots of legitamate backlinks, and 0 PR and doesn't show backlinks in google. But it does show up in index if I type in the exact site name. I've given up on it.

Do you think if I 301 it to a different site that my backlinks will carry over?

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