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Google backlink counts are way off
mrbrad




msg:84459
 4:03 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Am I the only one who has a site that should show about 4 times as many backlinks as it gets credit for in Google?

For as much importance as G places on backlinks for SERPS you would think they would do a better job in finding them.

Alltheweb shows all my backlinks and then some I didnt even know I had. How is it that ATW can do this and Google cant?

In the last G update my backlink count went down?! Even as I add more and more every day.

Am I doing something wrong or is this happening to other webmasters as well?

 

WebGuerrilla




msg:84460
 5:24 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

You are making the assumption that because Google doesn't show them means that they didn't find them or they don't count. That is a pretty big assumption.

jcoronella




msg:84461
 6:02 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google only shows a small subset of your backward links, and it updates them on a very delayed schedule. Some claim that they don't show links that are below a PR4, but I have not personally verified.

seofreak




msg:84462
 6:09 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Google only shows a small subset of your backward links, and it updates them on a very delayed schedule. Some claim that they don't show links that are below a PR4, but I have not personally verified.

not true, i have seen sites in backlinks for months which have PR0

willybfriendly




msg:84463
 6:13 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

not true, i have seen sites in backlinks for months which have PR0

Or, you have been witness to the infamous "broken tool bar."

WBF

percentages




msg:84464
 6:43 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Or, you have been witness to the infamous "broken tool bar."

Yup, Google only shows PR4+ sites as backlinks. But, when the toolbar was showing an incorrect PR value it appeared to show links below PR4. That was a toolbar related error.

The thing I am yet to be convinced of is that backlinks below PR4 actually do you any real good in terms of PR. I have sites with thousands of external low PR backlinks, none of them show in Google, but I know they exist. But they don't seem to raise the PR of the recipient site at all.

By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...but it doesn't. Meanwhile one PR6 link does the job nicely for a different site with no other backlinks.

This doesn't seem like a very Democratic voting system? It seems like Google wants us to pay for high PR links?

Democracy for sale at Google.com;)

Arnett




msg:84465
 6:50 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Democracy for sale at Google.com;)

Google loves to brag about it's "democratic" system and it's "integrity". They never should have made so much of PR and the toolbar in the first place. Looks like their democracy is suffering from invasion by the "machine" system.

Democracy for sale - ROFLMAO.

steveb




msg:84466
 8:10 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

"Yup, Google only shows PR4+ sites as backlinks."

People keep saying this and it is still totally wrong. It used to be true but not anymore. Google often shows backlinks less than PR4 now. Get with the program.

1milehgh80210




msg:84467
 8:19 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

"By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...but it doesn't. <<<
!, looks like the toolbar is still broken..

coconutz




msg:84468
 9:01 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Over the last few updates our backlink count has dropped and PR has been fluctuating - but our positions in the SERPs have improved over a much broader range of keywords.

>>Google often shows backlinks less than PR4 now.

Seems like it's been that way for a few months now, seeing low PR backlinks is not as uncommon as it once was.

The toolbar seems to be more of a distraction than anything else.

I know the links are there and I'm sure Google knows the links are there. :)

Whether or not they care to admit it doesn't matter to me.

DerekH




msg:84469
 9:21 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

"By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...but it doesn't. "

But surely, the value of a backlink from a PR2 page depends on how many other sites that page links to? 2000 backlinks from sites with 100 links on their PR2 page really can't count for much - well, one percent as much as a single outbound link on that page.

And many of us would actually love to see your math in a little more detail, because I thought that the step-size between PR2 and PR4 was still something that was a guesstimate.

And in case all that seems like sour grapes, it really isn't. By way of illustration, I have a backlink from a PR6 page that has 400 other sites on it, and it made not one jot of difference to my site when the backlinks were recalculated recently.

DerekH

seofreak




msg:84470
 9:28 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>People keep saying this and it is still totally wrong. It used to be true but not anymore. Google often shows backlinks less than PR4 now. Get with the program.

my words exactly

doc_z




msg:84471
 9:33 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

By my math 2,000+ PR2 backlinks should get a site above PR4...

No, a PR4 is correct.

Of course, it depends on the number of links on those pages as well as their exact PR. However, in average this leads to a PR4 (for the current values of the damping factor and logarithmic base).

glengara




msg:84472
 10:32 am on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

If G was showing baclinks with PR<4, would they not also be showing links to pages with a PR<4?

SlyOldDog




msg:84473
 7:43 pm on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just to shine a little light on the maths....

It's been speculated over and over here that Pagerank is logarithmic with a base somewhere around 7.

If that were to be true, and Percentages on average received a link from a site with 50 links on the page and if all were PR2:

He would need 50 links to get a PR2

50*7 = 350 for a PR 3

50*7*7 = 2450 for a PR4.

There's something called a damping factor too (to simulate the fact a user may click the back button instead of a link) which increases the number of links needed a little. If the damping factor was set to 0.85, you would need:

50/0.85=59 links to get a PR2,
50/.85*7/.85=484 for PR3
and 50/.85*7/.85*7/.85 = 3989 links for PR4

Of course the whole thing is speculation, but it's served me pretty well as a yardstick.

div01




msg:84474
 7:50 pm on Sep 13, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have two sites that aren't showing PR5 and PR4 backlinks, but this only happenned in the latest update. I'll be giving Google one more chance...

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