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Zero Pange Rank on recent pages
Why no PR on this years pages?
KennyJ




msg:103853
 8:06 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Since 2001 we have produced a monthly newsletter that gets added to our newsletter archieve on our site.

The index page for this archieve has a PR of 5 (main index is PR6). All the newsletters for 2001 and 2002 have a PR of 2 but all pages for 2003 have a PR of 0.

2003 newsletter have been indexed by Google, infact the May 2003 one has our highest rank!

So why no PR?

- Could it be too many links (30ish) on our PR5 index page?

 

Marcia




msg:103854
 8:15 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Not really a problem and not an issue Kenny, except that we'd really like to see it and to know, and it is hurting some people with good sites being linked to because of not having any PR showing.

PR is just not showing on more recent pages at this point in time - yet some of those pages are still ranking nicely. We don't really know what's up, but we have to work around it best we can. We got kind of spoiled with being able to see.

soapystar




msg:103855
 8:24 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

this would be fine if googleguy could tell us not to worry about linking to bad neighbourhods. but since linking to the wrong site can had disaserous affects having a toolbar not working is bad news. Nobody wants to give new links to new sites since there is no way of knowing if a site is penalised or not. sure some will say worry about your site blah blah blah and google will do the rest. the point is google did bring along the toolbar with what it describes as the IMPORTANCE of a site to google. So having started the culture of toolbar madness i think we deserve some sort of comment of the what the sitaution is. For an egine tha is bulit on the linking comunity it is now bringing linking to halt! Kind of defeats the whole object dont you think?

Josefu




msg:103856
 8:31 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

...what I find amusing is that the Google index page itself has only a ranking of 9 last I've seen : )

TheDave




msg:103857
 9:15 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nobody wants to give new links to new sites since there is no way of knowing if a site is penalised or not

If you want to know if a site is penalised, why not search for it in google. If it's truely penalised, it's not going to be there.

tombot




msg:103858
 10:49 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's not a question of whether or not a site is actually penalized but that it is harder for newer sites to get links because many people see a white bar and won't link period.

tombot




msg:103859
 10:55 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

...what I find amusing is that the Google index page itself has only a ranking of 9 last I've seen : )

It shows as 10 for me, but what's really funny is that if I click the "Google Home Page" option from the toolbar, it is PR 1, no joke. The url is actually [google.com...] though.

[edited by: tombot at 1:14 pm (utc) on Aug. 7, 2003]

Tropical Island




msg:103860
 11:50 am on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Talking about PR has anyone else noticed that a popular Google Dance tool has had their home page go from a PR6 or 7 to PR0?

IITian




msg:103861
 12:15 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am having problems linking too. Not fair to newer sites like mine.

soapystar




msg:103862
 12:49 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

"I am having problems linking too. Not fair to newer sites like mine."

This is my point. Google wants to build its algo on the back of a linking culture/structure that it brought about with the release of the toolbar. now that very act has brought linking to halt.

tombot




msg:103863
 1:12 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Talking about PR has anyone else noticed that a popular Google Dance tool has had their home page go from a PR6 or 7 to PR0?

I think that may be because it is now redirecting to a subdomain of another site which I think is a recent development?

dillonstars




msg:103864
 1:14 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am having problems linking too. Not fair to newer sites like mine.

I'm having this problem too. I was amazed when I got my first rejection citing this as the reason.

I would love to see a thread dedicated to other ways you can see if a site would be bad to link to, then i can point people that say no to it and they will hopefully have a change of heart...

I even offered to show my stats to them to see that I really do get traffic form google, but they didnt take me up on that.

Gus_R




msg:103865
 2:26 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I went live in April, ranking well with pr0.
This condition is a disaster for my linking campaign, not only for pagerank: I need the traffic from links!.
My last search for exchanges was at June, I'm now foccussed to sites that will put backlinks without reciprocals like directories or something close with my activity, which takes a lot of work to research.
I agree: not fair.

T_Rex




msg:103866
 3:45 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Here's how much PR makes sense to me:
I just found a PR 4 index.htm page on web-site, and I chased it's inbound links to the index.htm page for the PR4 page. Not many inbounds - all fit on one page. Several of the inbounds have grey pagerank bar. Only two of the inbounds are not grey and they are both PR=0. So where is the PR comming from? I dopn't know how old this PR4 site is and I don't care. Maybe PR tool is busted down.

IITian




msg:103867
 5:05 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Suggestion to Google:

Instead of giving PR0 to new pages until who knows when, why don't you assign those pages default PR of 7 till you do something with that toolbar?

I promise, I won't complain then. ;)

JonR28




msg:103868
 5:34 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just be patient, with time PR grows even if u don't get new links. My old site has PR4(even on the links page) with a grand total of 2 links. Never even bothered to get any or optimize the page. Maybe google is rewarding me for not SEOing that site.

GoogleGuy




msg:103869
 5:57 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

IITian, I appreciate your suggestion. People just need to know that new pages start out at zero and work their way up over time as more PageRank/links point to their site. It's just like anything else--when you're new, nobody knows your reputation. Over time, people build up trust as they get to know you. A low PageRank for a new page is nothing to worry about.

Gus_R




msg:103870
 6:11 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

<Just be patient, with time PR grows even if u don't get new links>

Taking five months?
How can my site get #6/850000 with no real pr and poor seo?

TeofenGL




msg:103871
 6:43 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Maybe google is rewarding me for not SEOing that site

Actually, perversely, i have seen this to be the case with some small sites - maybe it's only psychological, but i swear a teensy completely unoptimized no fluff site will come up bettere than a teensy all-out optimized one.

turk182




msg:103872
 7:05 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I must agree with all the people who says there's something weird those last months with the PR.

At present we have a PR6 site, with some sub-sections with the same PR. New pages within that sub-sections get a PR from 2 to 5 depending upon their sub-level (5 for first level, 4 for second, 2 for products pages). Last April we started a new sub-section and although pages within it have been indexed and are well ranked in searches, the toolbar says that they have not been ranked by Google. I mean, when I make a search, they rank where they should be according the rank I've manually calculated, but the toolbar still says they're not ranked.

This don't worry us, but If we were a new site, reliying in our page rank to make reciprocal links, we would be in a problem. I think this problem should be corrected in brief, or else disable the PR in the toolbar.

HyperGeek




msg:103873
 7:33 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

We have developed several sites, and only a few pages have been indexed for each since May/June.

All have a white PR bar which showed up approx. 2-3 weeks after they were launched. This is the time that I estimated it would take to get SOME sign of PR...but alas, nothing as of yet.

Backlink indexing has also been attrocious since about May/June.

I am hopeful that Google is just in a stage of transition, as all long-time SEO folk have experienced - having to wait around for several months in the past until certain SEs "pull their pants up". I really would like to believe that this is one of those phases for Google.

They have alot of work ahead of them if they're planning to break away from the presence that Yahoo! gives them. That's a ton of exposure and brand recognition lost.

Keep in mind that AskJeeves couldn't create a decent presence even with ADS ON CHICITA BANANNAS AND VARIOUS BEEF JERKY PRODUCTS (They had an entire campaign based on co-branding with major food distrubutors and as soon as it stopped, so did the traffic level they gained.)

It never ceases to surprise me of how LITTLE the general public knows of Google when it comes to a stand-alone service (searching via www.google.com), and I hope they're not biting off their nose to spite their face.

GoogleGuy




msg:103874
 7:35 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

"Just be patient, with time PR grows even if u don't get new links."

Hey, just wanted to step in and say that's not correct.. PR doesn't automatically grow with time.

IITian




msg:103875
 7:38 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks GoogleGuy for responding so quickly. Thanks to inclusion in the Google directory I have some reputation now, but wish others knew about it. ;) Not much worried now since only a few quality links are good enough for a non-commercial site like mine to place well, but would have been worried if were in competitive categories. Hard to find links with a displaced PR much lower than the <true> PR.

Josefu




msg:103876
 8:21 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

Perhaps a bit off topic but I've noticed that many of those into the same wares as I rank very high when their sites are nothing but - ISP-based or free homepages. I had a look at many of them and most show a PR0 - but they probably get high ranking because of all the 'links' they have. Kind of dumb, but I think Google sees links going to someone's "www.perso.yahoo.com/widgets" and other links headed to another homepage "www.perso.yahoo.com/skivvies" belonging to someone else (multiply this a hundredthousandfold) as belonging to a unique "www.perso.yahoo.com" site thus ranks high. Am I wrong? If not, where is PR ranking important anymore if links are everything?

mrbrad




msg:103877
 8:57 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think some webmasters here are too obsessed with PR in the toolbar. By not linking to a new site that has a 0 PR you may be giving up some good links that will pay off big time for you in the future.
I approach linking to new sites as an investment. Make good decisions and get in early while its cheap and easy.
I get alot of link requests from webmasters with new sites. I take a look at all of them while ignoring their PR0. If they have a good site put together (meaning, good design, good content etc.) I will add their link and not worry about it knowing that their PR will grow and so will mine as a result.

If you are a webmaster struggling to get links to your new site, sticky mail me with your links. :-)

Cheers,

MrBrad

roundabout




msg:103878
 10:18 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

>> People just need to know that new pages start out at zero...

Googleguy, how are we supposed to resolve this tidbit with the bad neighborhood issue? There is nothing to distinguish a new site from a penalized site.

Total Paranoia




msg:103879
 11:33 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

On a site I maintain - all 120 static HTML internal pages have a PR0 whilst the homepage has PR5.

It is nearly two years old but in April it was redesigned and new pages were added.

Pre dominic - some pages were still holding some PR.

I am done waiting - is this normal? - is anyone else still waiting for internal PR to come back?

BTW - this has in no way affected the website rankings - each internal page receives traffic from google. In fact, it has remained more stable than many other websites I watch over the last few months.

I have a similar problem with getting links as my links page is also a PR0 nobody will recip link with me :(

The only thing that may be wrong with this website is the fact that two or three pages are very similar so a duplicate penalty on a few pages I could accept.

daamsie




msg:103880
 11:59 pm on Aug 7, 2003 (gmt 0)

I put my foot in it in another thread, assuming that google didn't penalize sites for simply linking to PR0 websites. I was put straight and pointed to the google guidelines themselves where it says not to 'participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking', in particular linking to 'web spammers' because this 'may affect your own ranking'. A little of a surprise to me, but it did make me think.

Google is not only penalizing by removing sites from their index (which they have full right to), but also penalizing by making it next to impossible for sites to get good links from well respected sites.

Considering the most common way of checking whether someone is a 'web spammer' is by checking their toolbar PR, this means to play it safe, no one should link to a PR0 site.

soapystar and gus_R, you make a good point asking how you are meant to get any links. I certainly wouldn't give you any.

Googleguy, just telling us that people need to know that sites start with a PR0 is simply not enough. These guidelines you have put in place are hindering people's websites in areas that should have nothing to do with Google. Because people are scared to link to PR0 sites, those sites can't get links, even if they don't give a flying ** about where they rank in Google. I for one will NOT be linking to another PR0 site until that guideline gets taken down or the PR bar clearly indicates a difference between penalized sites and PR0 sites. This is the effect that these rules are having.

Essentially, the only way to get any LINKS now is by first paying for one from somewhere like Yahoo!. Google has (unintentionally perhaps) turned the internet into a PFI phenomena.

If google keeps up this guideline that people may get penalized for linking to penalized sites, it can surely only be a matter of time before they have to deal with the consequences in court.

This toolbar NEEDS to be fixed. It is far from an unimportant issue as many here claim.

daamsie




msg:103881
 12:01 am on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

I put my foot in it in another thread, assuming that google didn't penalize sites for simply linking to PR0 websites. I was put straight and pointed to the google guidelines themselves where it says not to 'participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking', in particular linking to 'web spammers' because this 'may affect your own ranking'. A little of a surprise to me, but it did make me think.

Google is not only penalizing by removing sites from their index (which they have full right to), but also penalizing by making it next to impossible for sites to get good links from well respected sites.

Considering the most common way of checking whether someone is a 'web spammer' is by checking their toolbar PR, this means to play it safe, no one should link to a PR0 site.

soapystar and gus_R, you make a good point asking how you are meant to get any links. I certainly wouldn't give you any.

Googleguy, just telling us that people need to know that sites start with a PR0 is simply not enough. These guidelines you have put in place are hindering people's websites in areas that should have nothing to do with Google. Because people are scared to link to PR0 sites, those sites can't get links, even if they don't give a flying ** about where they rank in Google. I for one will NOT be linking to another PR0 site until that guideline gets taken down or the PR bar clearly indicates a difference between penalized sites and PR0 sites. This is the effect that these rules are having.

Essentially, the only way to get any LINKS now is by first paying for one from somewhere like Yahoo!. Google has (unintentionally perhaps) turned the internet into a PFI phenomena.

If google keeps up this guideline that people may get penalized for linking to penalized sites, it can surely only be a matter of time before they have to deal with the consequences in court.

This toolbar NEEDS to be fixed. It is far from an unimportant issue as many here claim.

daamsie




msg:103882
 12:02 am on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

apologies for the double post - I was getting a 'page could not be opened' error when submitting, but somehow it still worked. Can a mod please remove one of them and this post as well? :-)

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