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Index page is vanishing temporarily
doc_z

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 6:25 pm on Aug 3, 2003 (gmt 0)

One of my sites, which was affected by the 'index page dropped phenomenon' (bug, penalty or whatever), is vanishing temporarily from the results (when searching for keyword1). The problem often occurs when searching the first time. When the result page is reloaded, normally the page reappears.

The problem doesn't seem to be related to a specific data centre (i.e. it can occur at all of them). The problem also arises for a search of allinanchor, allintitle and allintext of keyword1. However, it seems that other keywords or combination of keywords are not affected.

Anybody else seeing a similar behaviour?

 

akande

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 2:19 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

My site is also with the vanishing trick by google.

We had a PR of 6 before our entire site was dropped by google for an unknown reason.

Our index page is the only page left in the google index.

mipapage

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 2:26 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

For the record (WRT reappearing/vanishing pages),

Who knows if it's timing (ie hitting the button too soon) or what, but sometimes it happens on the refresh, and other times by hitting 'search' again.

seekanddestroy



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 2:34 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

James - Google does not need to return poor results to get advertisers - it it did people will stop using it, too much of a double edged sword.

Personally I just feel that it's difficult to run a search engine that big, with rolling updates etc - change anything and it can lead to disaster - but yes there are certainly problems, possibly bigger than Googleplex really appreciates.

DavidT

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 3:43 pm on Aug 8, 2003 (gmt 0)

My heart sank when this started again. Our index page was affected the last time as well but in a somewhat different way. This time the page is vanishing and appearing largely for more minor phrases, often three-word.

Example: blue widgets, solid at #2 or #3;
shiny widgets, solid at #1 or #2
blue shiny widgets, completely gone first try, hit refresh and #1.

With any logically based, well functioning, system of ranking results this would surely be impossible, objectively wrong.

kevinpate

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 1:40 am on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy,

Since you asked for a specific example of the vanishing index page phenom, and since it's now tagged me again, having dealt with it back in April and (briefly earlier this week), there is a spam report using indexpage and index page as keywords from me to you via the Big G spam report form
<added> It appears this phenom, at least as to the example given in the report has to do only with the www-fi data center, which is apparently what both www3 and ww3 are hitting on at this time. <end of addition>

DavidT

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 9:31 am on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

"indexpage or index page for Googleguy from DavidT at WW"

Report sent.

mipapage

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 11:44 am on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hmm, seems like a good idea:

GoogleGuy, for the record, we sent one in too (on the 8th). The words 'indexpage mipapage googleguy' all in there. Look forward to hearing what you find!

sullen

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 1:06 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Can I just clarify here?

Are you lot talking about your index pages dropping out of the Google index altogether (i.e. it doesn't appear on a search for "someveryspecifickeyword site:www.mysite.com"), or do you mean that the page drops like a stone in a particular set of search results, presumably due to some minor algo flaw?

If the latter, I've been suffering from it for months...

soapystar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 1:46 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

first search...index page non-exsistent in entire serps

hit refresh....site is number one

all subsequent refreshes...site number one

go away for 2 hours..open up browser...site not in index

refresh...site number one

all subsequent refreshes...site number one

happens on all datacenters!

DavidT

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 2:29 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

As above but only seems to happen on certain search terms/keyword combinations and not at all on others. At least in my case.

drewls

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 2:33 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes, soapystar described it perfectly. This has been going on for better than a month now, but has gotten much worse lately.

I hope all the reports from people that are having different problems aren't clouding the issue too much for Google to see what we're talking about.

seekanddestroy



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 3:12 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yup, I had hoped it would get better once Googleplex were aware of the issue taking off again (my pitiful stats suggest Monday), but it's broke right now, hasn't happened to my sites before.

My top fives require refresh or research to bring most of them up last time I looked (five minutes ago).

Once the site returns after a refresh or research it stays there, however having watched the data centres earlier in the week, it took more than one refresh to bring the whole lot up stable.

I can't even begin to think what would cause it, but anyway, despite mentioning some scepticisim, Googleguy requested the other day spam reports containing 'indexpage' to be sent so he can check out those sites affected.

He received and aknowledged mine, and the problem hasn't gone away so should he care to keep an eye on it he will see the problem I guess - I get it every day for dozens of searches.

Yidaki

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 3:41 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

My believe is that google 1) is aware of the phenomenon and 2) is able to solve the problem. Don't know if ya all noticed it but the AdSense [google.com] results have been corrected immediately after reporting it. As always: patience is the answer and i'm pretty sure that - as always they try to find a general solution to avoid making indivual / case-by-case tweaks.

[edited by: Yidaki at 3:44 pm (utc) on Aug. 9, 2003]

reneewood

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 3:42 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I sent a spam report re: the above issue, but as of yet have not had an acknowledgement from GG.

notredamekid

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 3:55 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

My new website appeared in the google index 5 days ago (it got in from a backlink, which i found doing link: www.myurl.com)

Yesterday, it disappeared from the index, it doesn't even show up when I search for www.myurl.com. My site is commercial, but it does not have spam by any sense of the word.

I think this is evidence of a) a rolling update and b) a f***ed up google.

drewls

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 3:58 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I sent a spam report re: the above issue, but as of yet have not had an acknowledgement from GG

Same here, but he's a busy guy I'm sure, so I don't take it personally. As said above, I'd imagine this is a problem they'd definately like to lick in one shot for everyone, rather than look at every affected site.

A general statement that there is indeed something wrong and that it is being worked on would be nice, but it's probably not considered wise in terms of public relations.

seekanddestroy



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 4:06 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hopefuly any scepticisim that Googleguy or Googleplex have had in the past on this issue will be gone now.

It's important to remember, that so long as the Googlers can see it happen (ie proof) then it will be a little worrying for them, as things like this can have a habit of growing.

So while enough people are affected to keep these threads going currently with the few (relatively) webmasters who visit here, that translates to a much bigger 'invisible' problem.

If the problem then gets bigger without the Plex knowing about it, it could be a disasterous bug in the system - so I feel that so long as they see examples they will be very keen to fix it Google wide asap!

UK_Web_Guy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 5:06 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am getting this problem as well Intermittently.

If it happens - hit refersh and my listing is back.

However, this is not the case on one datacentre, and it has been this way since around wednesday.

No matter what you do my listing is nowhere for my main key phrase on this one datacentre.

This is the old index gone missing problem from dom/esme time.

Anyone else seeing a re-occurence of this?

seekanddestroy



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 5:27 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

UK_Web_Guy - yes yes, read the posts, read, read.

However GG is on the case, please put it in a spam report with 'indexpage' in the content and your domain which is doing the magic act - plus example searches - GG has requested reports thus, just recently.

Cheers,

Seek.

kamikaze Optimizer

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 5:59 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

I also believe that Google is very aware of this issue.

I am going to take a well thought-out guess on a few things here:

1) I believe that this is happening to most people when they search a single keyword, and not multiple word key-phrases.

2) That the keyword returns many results, i.e., a very competitive keyword.

3) That this is the result of an "over tuned" algo that Google has put in place for that keyword, and not a problem that the webmaster did to his/her index page.

AAnnAArchy

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 6:13 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

kamikaze_Optimizer <<1) I believe that this is happening to most people when they search a single keyword, and not multiple word key-phrases.>>

No, mine is a two word name.

<<2) That the keyword returns many results, i.e., a very competitive keyword.>>

No, in my case, the category isn't particularly competitive.

DavidT

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 6:24 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

As far as I see my index page is only being affected by this on three word phrases, not competitive really at all. Some two word phrases wobbled a bit a few days ago but generally have been solid.

Last time this happened though (April?) it was on my bread and butter two word phrases. That may still be to come this time.

drewls

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 6:28 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

kamikaze, it's happening to us on 2 and 3 word phrases also.

I also don't think this is an algo thing. I think this is a problem with a certain group of sites that either were created or significantly changed at a certain time (namely March). Our site has been online for going on 2 years now, but in early March was when we started doing some real optimizing for serps.

Other sites, who use the same, proven (non-spammy) methods of optimization are firmly in the index, which really leads me to believe this is some sort of data flub rather than anything related to a spam filter or algorithm.

UK_Web_Guy

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 6:45 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

seekanddestroy

I should have been more specific, I realise the vanishing problem is happening to a lot of people - the MAIN reason for my post was to see if anybody else has missing index pages completely, not temporarily - regardless of how many times you refresh

This is only for a main 2 word phrase and is only happening on 1 datacentre - has been for several days.

This is exactly the widespread problems people had during DOM/ESME

Anyone got this specific problem as well?

soapystar

WebmasterWorld Senior Member 10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 6:50 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

i'm seeing the gone/back problem for a three word phrase

i'm seeing the old gone completly problem for a recently targetted keyword..really does seem to be a connection between specific inbound anchor text and not showing up for it all....

drewls

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 7:06 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

UK_Web_Guy, I have seen what you describe for certain serps (in my area, some 1 word searches that are fairly competitive), but I haven't been able to pinpoint whether it's a problem or if the sites got shuffled out by an algo tweak.

Much harder to put a label of 'problem' on it if it's not an obvious unintended flaw like the refresh thing.

seekanddestroy



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 9:31 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

drewls, my site was:

1. not created around March

2. not 'significantly' changed then either

3. not affected last time around

seekanddestroy



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 9:36 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just read the last post drewsl so...

4. Yes there is an algo tweak possibly as some results are diabolical (no, not me whining, but from a user perspective - my quality competitors dead in the water also!) however the inconsitency is a 'Google is slightly broke' indicator as with the orrible update we experienced before, it's not normal search engine behaviour, it's not good search engine behaviour.

Google will fix it sometime, I just hope (obviously it's soon), the best thing to do is follow GG advice and report it to Googleplex via a spam report with the url, the search terms and 'indexpage' in the content - less talk, more reporting to Googleguy as requested - last time this happened he said he only received three spam reports on the subject - perhaps why it's still broke!?

Cheers,

Seek.

XtendScott

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 10:03 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

UK_WEB_GUY

one of my sites lost its index page for one of our main 2 keyword phrases. Was on 2nd page and now a sub page is on page 5, with index nowwhere to be found.

THe index page comes up with other searches though.?

Scott

drewls

10+ Year Member



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 10:19 pm on Aug 9, 2003 (gmt 0)

drewls, my site was:
1. not created around March

2. not 'significantly' changed then either

3. not affected last time around

Oh, well...there goes that theory out the window! lol

I do know that most of those affected by this refresh bug were affected the last time there were issues with the 'lost index' problem. However, I guess it's not a given that all sites experiencing this now were involved in the earlier mishap.

I still say it's a data loss problem and not an algo problem, but who knows...we're just guessing from the sidelines. The guys at the plex are the ones who really know what's up. :)

seekanddestroy



 
Msg#: 15782 posted 8:49 am on Aug 10, 2003 (gmt 0)


" The guys at the plex are the ones who really know what's up. :) "

Drewls.

Hope so, or they could just be scratching their heads (er beards possibly - do they wear white coats, have large glasses and a fondness for English real ales?). ;O)

Seek.

This 203 message thread spans 7 pages: < < 203 ( 1 2 [3] 4 5 6 7 > >
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