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Google June 2003 : Update Esmeralda Part 3

 7:15 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Continued from: [webmasterworld.com...]

Has anyone here ever heard of a Kalman filter? It's a mathematical way of building a model of the world. The math is pretty complex, but basically you try to build a model of the thing you're trying to represent. When you get a new data point, you update your model's estimate about the state of things.

Why am I talking about this? Well, Kalman filters have a knob that blends between how much you believe your model vs. how much you believe each new data point. If you tweak the knob all the way in one direction, you always trust the model and any new input just gets ignored. On the other extreme, you can ignore your current estimates about the state of the world, and only trust each new data point as it comes in. If you set the knob too far in that direction, the object you're trying to model jumps all over the place each time you see even a hint of new info.

Lots of people here are getting more stressed than they need to be--their knobs are turned a little too far toward worrying about the very last thing that happened: "Now my subpage is coming up higher than it should! Okay, now my index page is back and the SERPs look good. Gaaack! Now I'm showing well at DC but the subpage still shows up higher at FI! Too much pressure--I'm going to drink now, and start spamming every FFA I see tomorrow!" :)

If you look around, you'll notice not too many senior members posting here. They chime in every so often, but their knobs are twisted further in the other direction. They know that the index switchover takes a little time to settle, and they have the perspective not to get too worried about things right now, and in general.

I haven't posted much of my take lately, but if I could give advice, it would probably be: don't panic. Here's what I would expect. Probably about one data center per day will get switched to the Esmeralda index. You may see some improvements during the course of the switchover as ingredients get blended in as they're ready. I would expect another round of ingredient-adding after the index is switched over.

So: if you're really into Google-watching as a sport, I would check in once a day to see what data centers have been switched, and maybe to run 2-3 searches. Browse a little while, and then come back the next day. Find something fun to do at night besides poring over every last thing that GoogleGuy (or whoever) posts on WebmasterWorld. You'll feel better, I promise.

This is just my take. You're welcome to ignore it. But I mention it because during this index, I heard about a lot of good and bad searches from webmasters, and the more I dig, the more confident I am that things will turn out well.



 9:18 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

forgive me if this has be raised elsewhere but pagerank has been update for my site and it has a PR3 (was PR4) but shows 52 backlinks .. I understood only PR4 sites showed backlinks... or have I missed something during this update..?


 9:19 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Although my site was No 1 across the board yesterday evening on all data centers, it has now vanished, nowhere to be seen.
I have checked all day and it doesn't seem to be showing on any of them. Does this mean it will not listed.
The site is about 8 months old and has been in and out of G for the last 2 updates.


 9:24 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sorry to hear that Aurora, what's it like on other SE's? still at the top I bet!


 9:24 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

This is off topic but relates to this thread.
When surfing this forum in Opera, this thread doesn't appear. All of the others seem to. Why would this be?
Just curious. Please feel free to move about the cabin. :)


 9:27 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

The thread didn't show in Mozilla either when I tried earlier, twilight47. I wasn't logged in with Mozilla, I wondered if that was it... in IE where the cookie was still set, it was here.

Added: With Mozilla, at least, you have to be logged in to see this thread... just checked.

[edited by: Stefan at 9:33 pm (utc) on June 19, 2003]


 9:28 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Todays results suck - all of the new pages that seemed to be added during the E update are gone. Can't tell if they are coming back or if they've been fluctuated out of the database for this update. Experience doesn't make me learn towards optimism, although if I manually refresh the newer pages next week or so maybe Freshbot will pick them up.


 9:31 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

<< I wasn't logged in with Mozilla, I wondered if that was it... in IE where the cookie was still set, it was here. >>

Thanks for your feedback. That probably has something to to with it. But why just this thread do you think?


 9:34 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have three points to make about the latest google index. All points are bugs.

Last night, sometime after 11pm EST, the -fi index changed. My sites moved in ranking all over the place. Where my sites moved, is besides the point. But, while I was watching specific keywords, I noticed something:

Point 1) the #1 ranking site on a keyword, is one that has been closed for 4 months (in protest of the iraqi war). This site has "NOT IN OUR NAME" as the TITLE tag, it has no meta tags at all. The body of the site is all graphics. While the site USED to match on that keyword, it clearly no longer does. Yet it ranks #1 in the latest google index.

This leads me to point 2) My site ranks #5 on the same keyword as the problem site detailed above.... my site has 175 backlinks, while the problem site has only 56. Where this gets interesting is, on my site, the links google displays as #5, has ZERO backlinks to it. No one is linking to my "add mysite to your page.html", which contains almost no real text.

To me, points #1 and #2 say that the new index has a lot of old data in it somehow, and that page rank is not yet being utilized.

Point 3) I was looking around, and found that google has been indexing a "search engine", called babieca. I have to be specific about this, or no one will understand the loophole I'm about to detail:

Basically, if you go to alexa and look at the sites that link to babieca: [alexa.com...]

you'll see AT&T linking to them. Why does this matter? Well, AT&T did NOT link to them. The link in question is actually a search for the term "mohotta.com", which on page 20, USED to mention babieca.com.

The reason this is important, is: babieca now has AT&T .Net linking to them according to alexa / google, when they clearly didn't intend to, and secondly, the results from the at&t site are powered BY google.

So you have google feeding data back into it's own spiders, who then take the data as links from the website. This situation can be applied to any site that uses google for results.

Very interesting stuff indeed. Hope GG reads this post.


 9:35 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

When I saw it earlier, there were a couple of other threads missing too. I haven't signed out with IE to check, but it seems you have to be logged in to see certain threads.


 9:36 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Can anyone tell me why a site would have PR but, no slerp's and only has "Sorry, no information is available for the URL www.widgit.com
Find web pages that contain the term "www.widgit.com"



 9:58 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's looking like three US Government sites will ace me out again on one of my top keywords. The product I sell is not related to the Government, but since the Dominic update, Government sites have passed me up.


 10:06 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Can anybody answer this, or is anyone having the same problem?

"In this update I checked 'more results from http: // www.mysite.com' and discovered that only four of my pages have been indexed with text, yet all the pages have the same layout. Why is this?"

This is probably why my site is so low on this update, but I've gone through all the pages, and the layout is exactly the same. Me no comprende


 10:14 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thank you Markdidj for your reply. My site is quite new (re-vamped from an old one with new name) and only showed 3 updates ago with a significant rise in hits and sales. I previously had next to no hits due to my site host and description which I changed in Dmoz.
When google picked this up the hits increased along with my ranking. The last couple of updates have steadily boosted my site (which is totally clean) the only thing I am worrying about now is that G seems to be picking up on my old URL, which I changed 3 months ago. It seems to be listing the old site URL which is ranking far lower. When it lists the new site name it is listed as No 1. What can I do. The site title has changed (which is now recognised on DMOZ) It has (last month) been listed on G very highly, but this time seems to have been dropped completely today anyway - could be different tomorrow - I'll wait and see.


 11:17 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)


I know this question may seem newbish, but I have to ask. Yesterday, I was getting hits from a search query that only comes from the new index. Today, I haven't seen one hit from that query. The new index is on all but two of the datacenters, shouldn't I be experiencing these hits today also?

Thanks for your help,


 11:30 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi GoldenRanker,
My backlinks are still dancing on www from the old count to the new count. Also, yesterday my index page was around for a key phrase but today it's gone. I'm hoping seeing it for the first time in months is a good sign.

If your backlinks are fluctuating on www, you should be OK when it settles; if your index page is missing, who knows, and join the club. :)


 11:37 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

My backlinks remain the same and I continue to rank at #2 under my main keyword under all of the databases conatining the new index. Though my hits are still down from yesterday. Can this be explained?


 11:48 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)


If your backlinks are fluctuating on www, you should be OK when it settles; if your index page is missing, who knows, and join the club. :)

I'm curious why if your backlinks are fluctuating on WWW this will mean that you will probably be ok. As I understand it WWW will return results from all 9 datacentres and because of this it's normal to see fluctuation in backlinks because IN and CW have not got the new index yet.

Everybody who has created more links over the past 2 - 3 months will be seeing backlinks fluctuating.


 11:51 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoldenRanker, may well depend upon what percentage of your hits come from that word (phrase?). It's not unusual for sites to see their ranking on the word or phrase that they've been focused on go down, only to see their traffic go up, or vica versa.

One possibility is that there are not many secondary phrases on your site that are well optimzed? Just something to check. Sometimes, especially post Dominic, that can make a world of difference.

On our main sites, key phrases tend to be down, but traffic is up. It's coming from the many secondary searches that get us traffic...about 80% of our total, or more...


 11:54 pm on Jun 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Use this tool replacing the Yahoo URL in the address bar with your own. Hit refresh every once in a while and you should see the top frame's numbers fluctuate.



 12:06 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

You're right needinfo. I should have said in my opinion it's a good sign that rankings are still going to change.


 12:15 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

if your index page is missing, who knows, and join the club.

I'm with the club. I'm doing fine overall, truly am and glad of it, but it is ridiculous that my index page is gone as of today in -fi. It's right up there in every other SE... what on earth is going on with Google? How can they lose all these index pages?

(Full disclosure; I don't even get many hits via the index except for odp, directories etc, so it's not like it makes a lot of difference - Google added all my new pages and ranked them great)


 12:18 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I noticed the Yahoo links are all equal. Is the update finished?
(Sorry if this has been asked somewhere else)


 12:24 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)


CW & IN still have 617,000 backlinks. Were u using the Webmasterword 4x4 tool?


 12:26 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's a Riddle Wrapped In a Mystery Inside an Enigma.
The connection of all of the missing index pages, IMO, has not escaped the powers that be at Google. In fact I'm sure it exactly part of the new update process. GG said more will be added after the new index has propogated. Those pesky pages will be back.
Our index page was in Yahoo Hong Kong...do they use Google? ;)


 12:30 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Has GoogleGuy given us a clue why certain index pages are dropping, only for "popular" searches?

Is there a penalty for saying a keyword phrase too many times, even on a page that has mass text?

Is there a penalty for repeating the <title> and <H1>?
Nope....some sites are fine with this.

This sure doesn't give me a clue: [google.com...]

Neither has GoogleGuy, has he?


 12:38 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

The connection of all of the missing index pages, IMO, has not escaped the powers that be at Google

Maybe we could find out...
GG, do a search on the first two obvious kw's that I might be referring to, then compare it to Ink, ATW, etc, then please explain why there is such an enormous discrepancy. All of Esmeralda, I haven't asked one question... this is the first. Where did my index page go? It's been solid since Google first listed my site, until last night, now poof... gone.


 12:43 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

My new site just today receive a PR4 for the first time, previously was PR0. Question. Is there a chance that this PR4 can increase to a 5 or 6 during this update seeing that all the datacenters are not done updating?

There is still a couple more datacenters we are waiting to update that does not have my backlinks yet. When it does update and receive my links is there a chance my PR will increase too? Please Advise. Thanks!


 12:49 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm in the same boat Stefan. Poof, Gone. Only for most popular searches though. Its still there for less popular searches. Any ideas?

Actually went away one search result at a time. First "blue widget" disappeared two nights ago, then "blue widgets", and now "Custom Blue Widget". I'm going to assume "Custom Blue Widgets" will be gone tomorrow.

Where's that window at? Any ideas....shoot what was the name of that person jumping out windows in Dominic?


 12:49 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I also have been silent on this index page missing thing. I have not wanted to post a "me too" post.

Mine has been gone for my most important single KW, but not for any KP's, since the last update (a long time now). I am hoping that GG references to more things happening in the next few days will bring it back in.


 12:49 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Not much chance of an increase in the PR, Joehouse, in fact none probably. A PR4 isn't too shoddy anyway.


 1:03 am on Jun 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

doesnt budge in one serp and is a fricking yo-yo for others

i'm with you kirby- our firm manages a unique network of sorts of 60 sites (unique content) all with the same level of optimization. 75% have gone from 1,2 or 3 rank pg 1 to somewhere between pg 2-4 or out. ok, I say. but what about the other 25%. it is like just tell me WHY, i dont care just tell me. Because it is 100% impossible for me to deduce anything from this this irrational behavior. it is nothing short of a standstill. frustrating, but with you.

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