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Google June 2003 : Update Esmeralda Part 2

 3:17 pm on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Continued from: [webmasterworld.com...]

MurphyDog/johnser/bokesch, sound like all your sites will benefit from those extra links over time. If we didn't get the site into this index, sounds like we'll get it soon. It's fun to watch expectations change. MurphyDog launched his site a week or so ago and is chomping at the bit for it to show up. Give it just a little bit of time--we should find the site soon. :)

P.S. I won't be posting as often (gotta work, ya know :), but I will be checking this post and chiming in when there's something I can add.



 1:14 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

I have been studying SERPS for "search engine" and my 3 main kw categories. What I seem to see is that allinanchor results have not been factored in perhaps, plus maybe some other stuff. For example, for all 3 of my KW categories, I rank #1 and #2 in allinanchor. I also have by FAR the most backlinks (despite google dropping them 70%). Yet, I do not show up in SERP's. Also, for my site, any internal pages showing up lower in SERPs in place of www.mydomain.com, I see that for allintitle, www.mydomain.com is not listed though it has all kw in it and has a PR6 which is the highest my category goes, with most sites in the category being PR5 or lower. But the exact internal page that I see in allintitle is the page showing in KW SERPS for one KW phrase. So, seems allintitle is definitely being figured in, which unfortunately www.mydomain.com is completely missing from even when adding &filter=0.

Or is allinanchor factored in, and just the fact that www.mydomain.com is not listed at all in allintitle is playing havoc with my position?

I just share what I see, hoping we can try to get a feel for this new algo. I know it's still early, but I can't seem to not look at it.....Google Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder :(


 1:16 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

<<What would happen to the SEO industry if Google introduced randomization for, let's say, the first 30 returned links for searches which produced more than X number of hits? >>

What would happen? They would wind up showing the #1 search engine on page 3 for search engine. :)

Imagine if the whole secret sauce turns out to be random. Guess I'll just need to add about thirty more sites then!


 1:21 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Is anyone else seeing fluctuations in page rank at the moment? One of my sites inparticular is skipping between 1 and 6, I hope it will land on 6. I have never been one for roulette!


 1:33 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Agreed, complete randomization would show their hand. How about a random algo that is 100 percent dependent on some hash of the top 30 hits? That way today's search comes up the same as yesterday's search. You couldn't have a situation where the top 30 move around drastically from one search to the next; that would turn Google into a parlor joke.

The random element is such that throughout an update cycle, the SERPs stay the same. One possible way of implementing this is that every update cycle, sites are assigned a random number of "bonus algo points." A site that get a high number of these in a given month will do much better than usual or expected. The maximum number of bonus points a site can get isn't so large that a site that would be #200 gets to be #1 some months. However, sites usually buried on the bottom of page 2 might hit #1 for a month.


 1:39 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just to stoke the flames of conspiracy a little bit since those threads get interesting and are fun to read:

I might stop offering SEO for a few months because I feel like I can't offer any kind of useful service that people couldn't do themselves by sheer dumb luck!

Maybe that's what Google wants. After all, how does it look for a company thinking of going public when their flagship product is so easily manipulated by even the newest of persons learning SEO?

They after all have spawned an industry where every one and their uncle have become SEO experts. If the crown jewel is so easily manipulated, that crown jewel will not remain shiny for long!


 1:51 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Will "to google" change in meaning over time?

"I think I really googled that multiple choice test. I should have stopped drinking and started studying last night."

"Did you shuffle that deck?" "Yeah, it's googled pretty good."

"I'm afraid the prognosis for your brain cancer is not good. Your MRS scan looks totally googled."


 1:59 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hopefully Google starts firing people because of this mess.


 2:14 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

The argument that Google is broken because it comes up #20 for search engine, IMO, doesn't fly

Man oh man oh man. I am a user, not just a site owner. I rely on Google for help. OK, less now, but still...

Is it anything less than clear to people in here that the average user would *want and expect the biggest, most popular SE* to come up in position #1 when doing a search on "search engine"? As a consumer, I expect that searching on "search engine" should lead off with the big kahuna of SE's...then give me other interesting, but perhaps less popular, or more electic, results...*not the other way around.*

Who has the time and patience for that? Not the average consumer, I assure you! For the average Joe, Time is at a premium guys, and let's face it, the average Joe likes to work top down, not eclectic/bottom up. That was the Web *before* Google came along...

If you want a SE that gives you unusual or "interesting" results, try Ask. If you want to get to the point fast and get the information you want, you should be able to rely on Google. If not, it's only a matter of time, baby...


 2:29 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

mrguy, you're scaring me. cut it out.


 2:37 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

I just came back in #1 and #3 with www.mydomain.com for 2 kw phrases (where based on everything about my site optimization, I should be) on www2 and www3 after being gone a month and having the mydomain.com and www.mydomain.com issue

Is www2 and www3 showing this new update results? I hadn't been anywhere until just this moment.


 2:39 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

btw, same results for me on www-fi


 2:42 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hopefully Google starts firing people because of this mess.

Gee Mazza, I hate to see anyone get fired. I just hope Google has already put their best minds to work on sorting out the remaining issues, and I expect that they have. Hopefully, we're giving them some good tidbits to think about along the way too...


 2:43 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

at 3:41 gmt (late isn't it) all 9 datacenters + .co.uk are showing the same results hope they're still there when i wake up..looking good G...looking really good

<edit>and i finally get a little bit of green in my bar</edit>

[edited by: whiterabbit at 2:47 am (utc) on June 18, 2003]


 2:43 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

WebMistress, I believe that www2 and www3 are pointed to -fi.


 2:45 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)


Looks like lost index pages are starting to come back in. Yesterday I noticed my site index page was in Yahoo but not Google and thought it might be everflux, but all results seemed newer not just mine so I kept my hopes up. Today it's on www-fi along wth other new pages and seems to be spreading, so it shoudl be there to stay.

I've got to ask this. There's a site, no.1 for a 2-word keyword phrase with 100 or so links, beating a site which has 15000 links and the two-word phrase as their domain name. The standard answer is, "it's the quality of the links that count", but I checked them all and he's got one PR7 link, a couple of PR6's and the rest. How do these few sites with neither much content nor many high PR links beat huge sites like this?




 2:50 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)


Just noticed my site popped back in for a solid term.

Hope it sticks!


 2:58 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yes, allinanchor: is finally matching a SERP on -fi from here. GG is working late! :)


 3:00 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Concerning the Pr fluctuation that a lot of people see, do you see pr0 and pr# or just pr4/pr5 fluctuating?
I see one of my new site pr4 and pr0 fluctuating. Never saw this before. Maybe because it's a new site?


 3:01 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yep, I just moved from the www2 & www3 listings to www. PR doesn't appear to have changed yet

Definitely alot of action. It's fun watching the hyperactivity on this board (if you can keep up with the thread)


 3:03 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

I just saw another site I've been watching because they were indexed in Feb like me, and they went from page 6 to #1 with 33 backlinks beating out a site that has held #1 for ages with 58,000+ backlinks (google shows only 500 of those links). Only difference I can see that might make a difference is that the one now in #1 has tons of pages relevant to the kw phrase, the other had one page relevant but had held #1 for backlinks and one page relevant alone.

If all this sticks, it looks like Google really may have provided us with more relevant results WITHOUT punishing SEO work as so many suspected with things such as the absurd semi-penalty theory.


 3:05 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

I can confirm the reappearance of a long lost index page. I was a bit concerned, as several others here have been, that several of my interior pages were ranking highly for key terms and the good ol' index.html was nowhere to be found!

Alas, index.html has returned to to the SERPS as of a few minutes ago(let's hope it stays that way!). I have to say I am feeling a lot better about the new process.


 3:08 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

So far the biggest issues I see are, one again, blatant mass cross linking being unpunished, which more natural "directory" style sites are getting kicked down, alot of hidden links and hidden text getting good rankings, and often less relevant sites making it to the top of SERPs covering over more relevant sites.

Google should return google as the #1 search engine. It's normal. That it doesn't suggests that either the calcs are not working right, or are working too well and Google isn't as well linked as some of the other SEs.

As for expired DMOZ / Yahoo domains, I know people who continue to open and run new businesses based on this model, and there are no shortage of people lining up to buy the domains to boost PR. I don't see any notable improvement so far (and have reported 5 different site / site combinations for this in the NEW index (www-fi)



 3:08 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Just noticed my site popped back in for a solid term.

"term" is the key word. It's coming in slow; not all of the phrases I tried are fixed yet. If this sticks, it's the best news I've had in 2 months.


 3:16 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Earlier today it looked briefly as though the new index was rolling across the nine data centers, but then they all seemed to revert to Dominic. For the last half of today, from my chair at least, it still appears that -fi is the only data center to have the new index. Others agree?


 3:30 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nope, it's been in dc along with fi for hours here. It's showing often in WWW. Update soon done, (well... give it a day or two).


 3:34 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)


i was just about to disagree with you, but just to be sure, i went to check my term. i've been checking since the dance started (obsessively), and all day today, i have seen the same results in both -fi and -dc, but everything else was different. Now, all of a sudden, my site is gone from ALL the datacenters - including -fi. I just want to cry.


 3:51 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Something strange is going on.

Doing allinanchor searches that were lost a couple days ago, all of a sudden now show me where I should be.

It's as if my data was sitting somewhere off the datacenters and was just now brought back in.

All I can say is things are starting to look up:)

I hope this trend continues!


 3:55 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

mysite.com (aka mydomain.com, aka Cucomonga Beddings.com;))
Evidently, whatever freshbot didn't like about me didn't go away when the June 15 fresh tags disappeared. It did revert when the June 16 tags appeared.
Now how can I keep veryfreshbot away whilst letting in deepfreshbot.(not really).
I miss Gbody.:(


 3:58 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sometimes seeing backlinks on -va I only see on the Esmeralda updated data centers. So it is now spreading to va?


 4:12 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Something strange is going on.
Doing allinanchor searches that were lost a couple days ago, all of a sudden now show me where I should be.

It's as if my data was sitting somewhere off the datacenters and was just now brought back in.

All I can say is things are starting to look up

what he said


 4:14 am on Jun 18, 2003 (gmt 0)

Stephan, dazzlindonna, takagi, et al...

When I do a backlink check on the nine data centers for Yahoo! (Brett's thing), it is only -fi that shows a different number of backlinks (799,000). All other eight centers show the Dominic number (617,000).

I think Es is still only in -fi...

This 249 message thread spans 9 pages: < < 249 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 [8] 9 > >
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