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Google June 2003 : Update Esmeralda
Confirmed
Brett_Tabke




msg:213427
 8:59 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

We are seeing significant changes in Serps, back link numbers, fresh dates, and indexes at a couple of data centers.

This might mean a possible update.

WebmasterWorld Google Update Changes:

The problem: Chit chat noise in update threads.

Last month we hand several thousand messages posted about the update. The volume level was intense and people couldn't find the info that was appropriate. Many senior members complained about the "me too" chit chat messages being left.

We are not going to do that this month. If you don't have anything new to add to a thread thing please kick back and read. Additionally, we are going to be proactive in keeping those threads clean. Again, the volume is so high this time of month that informing everyone of any thread tidying is near impossible.

We would appreciate your continued latitude, cooperation (thanks), and patience as we head into this months update.

Thanks.
For the Team,
Brett Tabke

Google Update FAQ:
[webmasterworld.com...]

Messages in this thread do not count towards user message totals.

Understanding Dominic: (the previous update):
[webmasterworld.com...]

 

manilla




msg:213547
 12:15 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Slowmove

GG wrote in msg # 87 : "If you're ranking well and/or got pages indexed, then you can assume that we saw links to you and handled them correctly. I wouldn't worry about whether you can see backlinks, or whether you see a PR0. It would be some time before I would assume that you're seeing PR from the right index."

mrbrad




msg:213548
 12:18 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

MrGuy: I feel the same way.

I had positive hopes that Domonic was just growing pains for Google but now I dont feel so optomistic.
This update looks worse than Domonic for the keywords I have been watching. Lots of new sites with very little content seem to be dominating this update.

Clark




msg:213549
 12:20 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I wasn't going to bother mentioning this but my backlinks went down to 10% of what it was before. But have heart and don't worry. Patience is a big virtue with Google. They give you free traffic but with free there are no guarantees. I'm sure it will all get straightened out and you can see many have the same issue. Google will fix it.

As for the updates, this update is good news, but it isn't "real" as far as I'm concerned as well as many others I think. The real, serious deepbot has not come in to pick up most of the new pages in the last couple of months. That means wait for this update to settle down, wait for the deepbot, then the next update, THEN and only then can you really see what the changes at Google mean. The craziness of this transition is not over at all. Give another month or two.

Hopefully with the deepbot being freshdeepbot, some of the latest crawl will come in a bit quicker, but the take home message is still be patient.

I was a little impatient the last week or two because I knew that deepbot has never visited most of my pages in the last 2 months (which is when I've more than doubled existing content) and that only after Esemeralda (whatever it was to be named) and then the deepbot, would it be possible to see what's going on. I'm happy this step has arrived, but we must wait some more.

[edited by: Clark at 12:22 am (utc) on June 16, 2003]

stavs




msg:213550
 12:21 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

> I can't give much specific advice on ranking changes other than to point to Brett's good essay on building traffic over time.

this is one of those cases where you 'just know' that its not just a case of being adversely affected by algo/ranking changes. If a site is normally #1 for a highly competitive keyphrase, and then its nowhere in the top 100, I think its far more likely to have been overlooked, not indexed properly, or something of that nature.

speda1




msg:213551
 12:26 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Very fresh indeed. Inbound links that I secured only a week ago are already showing as back links. Kudos to Google.

SlowMove




msg:213552
 12:32 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

dmoz not showing in backlinks, yet google directory based on dmoz link showing in backlinks. anyone else seeing this?

Stefan




msg:213553
 12:37 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

DMOZ is showing in -fi backlinks, slowmove. I had an ODP editor decide to add my site, without me asking, about 6 weeks ago... it was already in a different cat. -fi backlinks show both dmoz cats for my site now.

IITian




msg:213554
 12:39 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am doing quite well but it seems broken. For example when GG says not to worry about backlinks not showing up and concentrate on ranking and good design, I don't have hundreds of links - just a few and if they don't show up I get worried because I don't know if G is counting them.

Helpmebe1




msg:213555
 12:41 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Slowmove,
I am with ya.. not seeing dmoz or yahoo directory links? but am seeing PRO links that are pure spam.. I am not linking to him but he is linking to me... why is he showing at all? Ohh boy... drugs, I needs lot of illegal drugs to cope... :)

MeditationMan




msg:213556
 12:42 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ugh!

For my main keyword (which brings in as much Google traffic in a month as the other 5000 keywords put together) I've dropped from 6 to 10. For most of my other important keyterms I've dropped from 1st place. Maybe there will be new minor keyterms for which I've gone up to 1st place, but I'm not hopeful.

Post-Dominic backlinks have dropped from 420 to 337. Any idea why this would be?

What's troubling is that my site offers way more information than any of the sites above me -- probably as much as all those sites put together.

I'm disappointed, but I guess I just have to keep plugging away.

GoogleGuy




msg:213557
 12:44 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

IITian, if you're doing well then don't worry about about it. For us to find your site, we had to find backlinks to it. :)

Okay, it seems like we're proceeding to the normal "sky is falling" stage that a regular Google Dance would have, so I'm going to nip out for a few hours and get some food. I'll be back later tonight after everyone's gotten it out of their system and taken a deep breath.. :)

Dolemite




msg:213558
 12:47 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

FYI, to check your current PR, add this line to your hosts file:

216.239.41.104 toolbarqueries.google.com

That should link up your toolbar to the fi index. You may have to close/refresh your browser windows or flush your DNS cache to see changes, though.

Stefan




msg:213559
 12:53 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Helpmebe1 and SlowMove, I assure you that some ODP backlinks are in fi. The two that I have are both PR6 pages; perhaps that's a factor.

dvduval




msg:213560
 12:56 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Overall, I really like the update because of the "newness" of the backlinks (yes, I'm one of those people who likes to examine them each month).

I'm also pleased at the shear volume of pages that Google picked up this time - very impressive. Google has manages to index nearly every page on some of my sites. The only exceptions are some forum type sites. I'm not sure if Google prefers to index only the newer threads in forums or maybe I need to work on navigation. I suppose newer forum threads are the most important anyway (but there are always threads that are important a year later, too).

I finally figured out why a site was beating me. They have been using 10x10 images that match the background color at the bottom of every page and then crosslinking all the pages. In addition, each page serves as a doorway page with link text that points to the index. I realized this when I found this site to be beating with even more phrases than last month for no apparent reason.

GoogleGuy, I submitted a spam report with your name and "webmasterworld" in it.

sirlion




msg:213561
 12:58 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

From my little corner of the web it appears that anchor text from backlinks has been severly deweighted unless that text has support in the title and description. Went from 3 to nowhere for a very popular 2 word phrase. Anchor text in most of my backlinks had 2 synonomis terms but the keywords that survived are the ones optimized for. My main keywords are still showing strong with esmerelda. I see this on several of my sites.

SlowMove




msg:213562
 12:58 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>Helpmebe1 and SlowMove, I assure you that some ODP backlinks are in fi. The two that I have are both PR6 pages; perhaps that's a factor.

the one that I have is a PR0 page. not sure why ;(

thunderpaste




msg:213563
 1:01 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

All my keywords are still showing lots of indented pages and one page affiliate type sites.

Helpmebe1




msg:213564
 1:05 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

PR4 Dmoz Page here not showing.. but PR0 backlinks ARE showing? somethings gone awfully wrong here... i just posted another post too about the google directory looking weird.

IITian




msg:213565
 1:13 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

GG:
IITian, if you're doing well then don't worry about about it. For us to find your site, we had to find backlinks to it. :)

Thank you GG, but I think my question was misunderstood. Just one link is good enough to be found, but all the links have to be included to figure out PR which is important.

Currently it is difficult to figure out whether the links not showing up are just hidden and do count towards PR or are just not counted and are unknown to G.

SlowMove




msg:213566
 1:21 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

PR keeps changing when i click on same links. is that part of the update process?

dvduval




msg:213567
 1:23 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Slowmove,

It doesn't appear Google.com has updated.
It is normal for pagerank to fluctuate during an update and this may continue for a day or two.

nanocet




msg:213568
 1:32 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Dolemite:
>FYI, to check your current PR, add this line to your hosts file:
>216.239.41.104 toolbarqueries.google.com

>That should link up your toolbar to the fi index. You may have to close/refresh your browser windows or >flush your DNS cache to see changes, though.
-----------------------------------------------------

Umm, did you really mean 216.239.41.100, as that is the address of -fi?

The '41.104' address is pointing at one of the generic toolbarqueries addresses that derive from the Demonic index(yes, I did spell it that way on purpose!)

NovaW




msg:213569
 1:34 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Backlinks went down again - prior Dominic - 2500, then about 1000 & now on fi 850.

But, returned back to approx position before dominic - so thats a plus , but strange how the backlinks went down.

Stefan




msg:213570
 1:45 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>The reported number of backlinks for now vs. 2-3 months ago were apples and oranges (that's why I counseled patience when people thought that their number of backlinks had dropped in Dominic), but now vs. Dominic is apples to apples

>>you shouldn't compare pre-Dominic backlink counts to post-Dominic backlink counts.

The threshold, or definition, or something, of what will be shown as backlinks has changed. This might account for some unexpected backlink results in -fi for some. They'll all still count one way or the other.

Brett_Tabke




msg:213571
 1:50 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

If you've not done so, please read the first message in this thread.

Google Update FAQ: [webmasterworld.com...]

Dolemite




msg:213572
 1:58 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Umm, did you really mean 216.239.41.100, as that is the address of -fi?

The '41.104' address is pointing at one of the generic toolbarqueries addresses that derive from the Demonic index(yes, I did spell it that way on purpose!)

No, I definitely meant 41.104. Its the 3rd octet that corresponds to the particular datacenters, the 4th to toolbarqueries. Do nslookups on www-fi.google.com and toolbarqueries.google.com if you don't believe me.

Works for me, anyway. I'm getting new PR on previously unranked sites. Like I said, you may have to close/restart browsers or flush your DNS cache.

[edited by: Dolemite at 2:09 am (utc) on June 16, 2003]

teeceo




msg:213573
 2:11 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Here is the key? Googleguy, would it be safe to say that when the dance is (totally) over that the PR toolbar will show the correct PR? tons of sites are showing pr0 but, there not, i'm just thinking maybe google is doing this pr0 thing some that people won't know what there real pr is. I hope i'm wrong, it won't be the first time:).

teeceo.

nanocet




msg:213574
 2:26 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

No, I definitely meant 41.104. Its the 3rd octet that corresponds to the particular datacenters, the 4th to toolbarqueries. Do nslookups on www-fi.google.com and toolbarqueries.google.com if you don't believe me.
---------------------------------------------------

No, you are absolutely right. It is strange tho, if I set the 4th octet for 'toolbarqueries.google.com' to '100' it will also give me the 'new' PR on sites that don't currently have it. Since I don't know the internal structure of the toolbar, I'd guess that a query from a toolbar that actually goes to one of those 'incorrect' addresses also gets handled just fine by the load balancer/front-end/whatever.
Thanks!

bether2




msg:213575
 2:28 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Whew! Good news is that some of my pages that were missing in Dominic are back with this update.

Bad news is that the number of off-site backlinks (vs. links from my own pages) is 1/6 of what they were in the Dominic update. I know I'm not the only one in this situation, but am mentioning it since googleguy is looking for feedback.

Er, or he was looking for feedback - maybe he's gotten enough for now. ;)

Beth

cindysunc




msg:213576
 2:30 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

The best thing to do during the update is wait 4-5 days until it settles in the main Google. Then make decisions or whether you need to make adjustments or not. Right now it's pointless, because things are still happening. Wait until it settles.

mfishy




msg:213577
 2:41 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Early observation - The new index seems to really devalue PR and anchor text. I have seen this across the board.

One interesting example is Google now ranks on page #3 for search engine even though they are #1 for allinanchor: search engine and obviously have PR 10+.

This 278 message thread spans 10 pages: < < 278 ( 1 2 3 4 [5] 6 7 8 9 10 > >
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