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This 278 message thread spans 10 pages: < < 278 ( 1 2 3 [4] 5 6 7 8 9 10 > >     
Google June 2003 : Update Esmeralda

 8:59 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

We are seeing significant changes in Serps, back link numbers, fresh dates, and indexes at a couple of data centers.

This might mean a possible update.

WebmasterWorld Google Update Changes:

The problem: Chit chat noise in update threads.

Last month we hand several thousand messages posted about the update. The volume level was intense and people couldn't find the info that was appropriate. Many senior members complained about the "me too" chit chat messages being left.

We are not going to do that this month. If you don't have anything new to add to a thread thing please kick back and read. Additionally, we are going to be proactive in keeping those threads clean. Again, the volume is so high this time of month that informing everyone of any thread tidying is near impossible.

We would appreciate your continued latitude, cooperation (thanks), and patience as we head into this months update.

For the Team,
Brett Tabke

Google Update FAQ:

Messages in this thread do not count towards user message totals.

Understanding Dominic: (the previous update):



 11:33 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

"our site has been 'in and out' over the last 10 days (not sure why). In the fi index its not in the top 100 for its keyphrase (previously for 6 months it was #1). Yet the number of backlinks showing in fi have increased significantly. "

Am seeing this across the board for many sites. Not all mine. I picked a few "good" sites appearing to be "playing by the rules" to watch along with my own, so I could do some objective searching, without my own optimization skills being the question :).

I am seeing new backlinks, definately new pages indexed... but, the ranks I am seeing do not appear to be the quality they should, with many top sites and authority sites and guys playing by the rules with good backlink counts losing ground.

In particular, a SERP I watched last month for a site not my own... the site was #1... in fi now, the site is gone, even though it's PR remains and it's backlink counts increased... yet, the rest of the top 10 remained unchanged with everyone else bumping up one notch. The #3 result doesn't come close to the old #1's current Esmerelda backlinks. This site still has top spots on other major terms, just not 1 or 2 of the top ones in particular. Very peculiar.

Anyway, just some of my observations I found interesting. :)

[edited by: chrisnrae at 11:37 pm (utc) on June 15, 2003]


 11:35 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm confused does that "-qwerrew" have to be done precisely like that? Os is it the "-q" that's significant and "werrew" has to do with a query? What a weird syntax?


 11:35 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Alta Vista still the #1 "search engine"


 11:36 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Helpmebe1, interesting that you're seeing that behavior. Other people have seen more deep pages shown rather than index pages. I guess it all comes out in the wash. :)

Googleguy... I just tried putting a post up about this.. but if pages are to similiar on this site in question to other pages on this same site, could that be causing a penalty of some sort? Its about 3k pages that google always loved with lots of deep specific links which arent showing? Could this be some sort of new penalty why the deeper pages arent showing? Other then alot of pages being similiar on the site but directed towards "green widgets" and another being for "blue widgets" I could see no other reason for any penalty at all on this site... its been driving me nuts why google is not showing the deeper pages but only main sections since Dominic?


[edited by: Helpmebe1 at 11:46 pm (utc) on June 15, 2003]


 11:37 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

SlyOldDog, I'll just stomp that rumor before it starts for #3. We don't hard-wire results for searches like that; whatever comes out of the web structure comes out of the web structure. weirdest search engine brings up webmasterworld at #1 in the new index, but we didn't do anything special for that. :)


 11:39 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi again Googleguy. Thanks for your response. The site has definitely been indexed because the site:www.mysite.com queryword works. It's just strange that with over 200 backlinks these sites aren't showing up for long queries unless I use quotes. I take it that once the backlinks are in, it's a done deal, so if they are not coming up for searches on -FI then they are intentionally excluded.

It's a shame, they were doing nicely with fresh results until now. I'm wondering if they are being penalized for using templates.


 11:39 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Clark, no need to overanalyze. I was just hitting the keyboard randomly. :)


 11:39 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)


The search "site:www.yourdomain.tld -xyz" means to search the given domain for all pages not containing xyz.

Make sure you put a string that's not in any of your pages.



 11:41 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Interesting update. Until now there were always two versions of pages in the index that have a fresh tag. The 'deepcrawl' version and the 'freshbot' version. It appears that this is no longer the case. For some of our pages I can find nothing but the fresh versions. (Our pages have a date on them.) However, some pages still have two versions in the index. That may all be coincidence but I guess that it shows that the transition to a more flexible index is on its way.

On the other hand, it's late here and I may see things that just aren't there. Why can't they push the button at a more convenient time for us in Europe... :)


 11:46 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

>3) MSN is now number 1 for "worst search engine"

Obviously hand tweaked at Google. Besides, what about Wisenut? ;)


 11:46 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

So moving forward Googleguy, what can you tell us about the new process if any - will there be a weekly update, a continous update, or still a few more traditional monthly updates?

Now that my pages are doing better I can replace my window :)


 11:48 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

GG - what's the message to those of us whose sites have been crawled, PR is intact, backlinks have increased, but site NOT showing up in the fi SERPs for the usual searches?

i think there may be a few of us in this boat.

[edited by: stavs at 11:50 pm (utc) on June 15, 2003]


 11:51 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

"what's the message to those of us whose sites have been crawled, PR is intact, backlinks have increased, but site NOT showing up in the fi SERPs for the usual searches?
I think there are a few of us in this boat."

I would also be interested in this answer. I am seeing it happen to more and more long established sites.

Also, how important is "freshness" in this new index? ;)


 11:51 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)


I am looking for some help. I have a new website that is supposed to be indexed and ranked this crawl. Is there anywhere I can go to see exactly where my site sites ranks in regards to serps and backlinks pertaining to google. Any help in this matter would be deeply appreciated. Thanks!


 11:51 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

wow I am seeing a new site of mine I created on May 28th showing 3 backlinks already! woot woot!

More changes to the SERPs would be nice ;\


 11:52 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy, since you are so forthcoming, have you got any idea how I can see the main (US) www-fi results from a country which gives me a local index?

The only way I know to see real results is through ICQ search, but that doesn't let me choose the data centre I want to see. I'm missing out on the action!


 11:52 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)


<<Besides, what about Wisenut?>>

My sites are #1 all over Wisenut. Therefore it is a search engine with excellent taste. ;-)


 11:52 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

jojojo, I'm just really glad we won't hear you plunging from the first floor anymore. :) I think I'll have to hold off about future updates, but the consolation is that it should become more clear with time. :)

stavs, I think the short answer for your question is that sometimes people start an Esmeralda analysis thread to hotly debate how things change ("It's emphasizes deeper pages! No, it emphasizes index pages!"). I can't give much specific advice on ranking changes other than to point to Brett's good essay on building traffic over time.


 11:54 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

Funny, I just noticed that www-fi groups subdomains together in the results. I'm looking at an entry that first has it.groups.yahoo.com/... and then (indented) asia.yahoo.com/...

Is that new or was it just bad luck that I have never seen it before?


 11:54 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

JoeHouse, do your searches from [www-fi.google.com...]


 11:56 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

SlyOldDog, I don't know of a shortcut to help you there--sorry.


 11:59 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

"I can't give much specific advice on ranking changes other than to point to Brett's good essay on building traffic over time."

Again, my references above are to some established authority sites who have years online playing by the rules dropping like flies from major serps they have had strong holds in for a long time. This does not include my own sites, as I do not have "years online" so it isn't a why me... merely an observation.


 11:59 pm on Jun 15, 2003 (gmt 0)

have you got any idea how I can see the main (US) www-fi results from a country which gives me a local index?

Good question. Would using US proxy server in his Internet Explorer "LAN Settings" do the trick?


 12:01 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

On the whole this update seems to be looking good, except for one person who now occupies the top 3 places on a competitive term with the same site on 3 different domains - 2 of them in framesets no less! Time for a spam report i think :)


 12:02 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hello Again All

As you can tell I am new to this game. Is this what we call the traditional Google Deep Crawl? I tried this last month but everyone told me these crawls are not usually like last month. So can someone tell me are we back on track as far an old fashion traditional Google Dance?


 12:02 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)


About Dominic you said that we should not worry about rankings for single words that much anymore, an indication that we are moving towards understanding themes of websites beter. Is Esmeralda even more "theming"?


 12:02 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

Every page on site is PR0, but am getting in the top 10. What is that?


 12:04 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've completly lost faith.

I done what Brett talked about in his 12 steps, for a while we rode high, then with dominic it went south.

Now, it went even further south.

I'm ashamed to wear my Google baseball cap anymore and have put it in my closet.

I just don't get it, add content, get good links, and nothing. All during dominic people said including GG, don't worry about it, it will straighten out. It only got worse for me.

I'm glad to see some people did well with this update, and with the update process so wacked out lately, this might be the last one for another 2 months.

I guess I'll go get hammered and finish out Fathers Day two sheets to the wind and I don't even drink.


 12:10 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think we're in the same boat...and it's sinking!
I did a lot of work on getting good relevant/helpful links to my sites over the past 3 months and I end up worse off.
The SERPs in my industry are definately worse than during Dominic and much worse than before it.

I really don't know what to do now.


 12:12 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm confused.

My backlinks on FI dropped to 8, and I used to have over 100. The 8 sites that are listed aren't anything special, and I know of 10 to 20 large sites off the top of my head that have good PR, are not listed in my FI backlinks, and that are still linking to me.

The number of pages of my site that are listed within Google is just over 500.

I'm seeing some good search engine results on some keywords, so I haven't dropped out of the index, but my site has dropped significantly on some of the primary keyword search. A keyword that is in the domain name, and therefore in every single link to the site.

Why would my backlinks drop so dramatically, when I definitely have more than 8 backlinks? And why would the site dissappear for a keyword search that includes a word in the domain name and in all anchor links to the site?
And, I don't know how to check PR, so will this reduction in backlinks drop my PR dramatically as well?

Any ideas as to what might be happening GG?


 12:15 am on Jun 16, 2003 (gmt 0)


GG wrote in msg # 87 : "If you're ranking well and/or got pages indexed, then you can assume that we saw links to you and handled them correctly. I wouldn't worry about whether you can see backlinks, or whether you see a PR0. It would be some time before I would assume that you're seeing PR from the right index."

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