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the economic effect of this update
effects of google update on my business
internetbrothers




msg:141352
 5:19 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

this May 2003 I lost About 10,000 US Dollars because of recent Google Technical problems . However I am sure that this nightmare will be over and Google is Best search Engine. No complain ,.. And thanks to GoogleGuy for it's effort to contribute to webmaster world.

 

skipfactor




msg:141353
 5:23 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Sounds like you've made plenty to cover it. :)

okephoto




msg:141354
 5:25 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

I can relate to this on a smaller amount, just lost 90% of my traffic in the new update. I'm hoping this is due to an old database as my sites aren't very old. Still a real eye opener.

What this really shows is that we shouldn't optimixe our sites for Google only. Time for a few changes.

jeremy goodrich




msg:141355
 5:25 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hm, I could say something trite - but I won't.

Buy AdWords. They don't depend on algorithms which are far from perfect.

tigger




msg:141356
 5:41 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

>What this really shows is that we shouldn't optimixe our sites for Google only

Wouldn't it be nice if we had a choice, but the only traffic driving SE is Google, the others just arenít worth putting any effort into

Woz




msg:141357
 5:59 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Dominic is certainly a wake-up call to those who are listening. The words "eggs" and "baskets" come to mind.

Onya
Woz

chiyo




msg:141358
 6:03 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yep only short-term opportunistic companies depend on one promotion channel - "free" or not. Long term strategy is characterised by a flexible promotion mix.

Viewing all the angst on discussion on Dominic, it may well be a good thing - that it has finally put to rest the short era of building a business on free search engine listings. That era effectively passed a fair time ago, and hopefully these google changes will convince those living in the past that its a different world now that the web has grown as a business, plummetted, and finally re-emerged as a more rational, mature business arena.

NovaW




msg:141359
 6:24 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yep only short-term opportunistic companies depend on one promotion channel - "free" or not. Long term strategy is characterised by a flexible promotion mix.

Depends on your business + the nature of the market your business operates in, and is imapcted if any one channel holds a large percentage of qualified prospects. Long term strategy is characterised by creating a brand.

John_Creed




msg:141360
 6:52 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lost 10,000 dollars? Seems more like bad business decisions than something caused by google.

Google sells adwords for a reason.

I can understand someone only making a few sales a month not being able to afford advertising. But 10,000? Use Adwords.

1milehgh80210




msg:141361
 7:10 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Use Adwords.<<<
How many sites are totally dependant on free SERPS and couldn't even afford adwords?
Just wait until the great 'WALMART-ization" of the web which will happen in the next few years!
All those affiliate sites that sell the same stuff at 5% markup? ..GONE
All those 'informational' sites that pimp the same stuff? ..GONE

efficiency comes to all markets,just depends on the time frame..

deanril




msg:141362
 7:17 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Anybody ever think google did the Magic Update on purpose?

No, no not google.......

Go out with a bang theory? No...not google..

Hmmmmm I wonder how Adwords are doing right about now?

Do you think they have increased 10 fold yet?

I can say for sure in my industry it has increased 10 fold.

But google is innocent, this is just a magic update.

Not hardly wake up..........

percentages




msg:141363
 7:25 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

>this May 2003 I lost About 10,000 US Dollars because of recent Google Technical problems

You mean you didn't make the additional $10,000 profit from Google that you had made in the past I assume?

Google has been, and probably will be for many years to come, a gold diggers dream. I feel a little sorry for those that mined a little less gold this month, but on the other hand someone else got it instead!

I initially thought that Google implementing this algo in a live environment was completely stupid, but after a few days I see another strategy.....shake as many SEO's out of this market as possible, then Google has to spend less on combatting people who are trying to manipualte it!

Not sure I'm correct with this idea, but if I am then Google have pulled a winner. If I'm not we may go back a few paces in future months. Either way all that matters is that you can sustain the costs of war!

Morgan




msg:141364
 8:03 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

You lost $10,000 (let's assume that's even true) because of basic poor business decisions. "Hey, winds have been blowing west for a year or two, I'll start a windmill farm that I can't adjust if the wind changes, I'm sure it'll always be the same direction... Oops it changed. The wind has stolen $10,000 from me."

As worried about Google as people are, if I were Brett I'd be doubly worried. Webmaster World is turning into a preschool full of crybabies. I didn't see the press release where free Google placement became an entitlement.

On the positive side, this certainly reminds me that the Internet still has tons of potential. With competition like this, opportunities abound.
<snip>

[edited by: ciml at 12:20 pm (utc) on May 28, 2003]
[edit reason] See Sticky [/edit]

makemetop




msg:141365
 8:13 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Economic effect?

Overall, on all the sites I look at taken in combination - absolutely none! If you look at any single site in isolation it could have benefited or might have lost out.

People tend to (quite obviously) look at what has happened to them as the most crucial issue. I would have thought that there has been no dramatic impact on the vast majority of websites.

There is plenty of traffic out there without Google. But as others have also said, if Google is important to your business - use AdWords.

internetbrothers




msg:141366
 8:16 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

>>>I initially though that Google implementing this algo in a live environment was completely stupid, but after a few days I see another strategy.....shake as many SEO's out of this market as possible, then Google has to spend less on combatting people who are trying to manipualte it!

Percentage I do not think google is trying to put SEO companies out of business, combat people who are trying to manipulate it YES, but no matter how much perfect google or any other search engine is still there are rooms for SEO companies. a few years back it was almost impossible to get listed in Yahoo and Yahoo was not using google. not getting listed in Yahoo looked like the end of the world, but it all changed. Yahoo started using Google .
Google right now is almost the best but there will be another some time and Yahoo will oneday stop using google.

People are so much worried specially SEO companies.
SEO is a very stressful job and very risky whenever search engines change their ways but there is always a way .

Just wait for the next update and most backlinks will appear again. Every thing will be OK ofcourse there will be some challeges but we will make it..

heini




msg:141367
 8:32 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Nobody here said Google stole any money from them. People are simply stating that drastic changes in their Google ranking can have deep impact on their business.

Folks, we can talk all we want, with a search engine controlling anything between 50-90% of all searches on the web, depending on the market, it's ridiculous to claim what this search engine does has no impact on millions of web business owners.

nutsandbolts




msg:141368
 8:38 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

It's impossible NOT to put all your eggs in that big, shiny, golden Google basket when the other ones are tiny and have lots of holes in them.

[edited by: nutsandbolts at 8:38 am (utc) on May 28, 2003]

Morgan




msg:141369
 8:38 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

It has as deep an economic impact on their business as they allow it to. If you rely 100% on your free Google listings, just be prepared to lose 100% of your business at their whim and at your folly.

Google may control 50%-90% of web searches. Great. They don't control anywhere near 50%-90% of web traffic, and there are literally a million ways to get good traffic outside of Google.

Liane




msg:141370
 9:01 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

this May 2003 I lost About 10,000 US Dollars because of recent Google Technical problems.

That's a shame and a blow I am sure you weren't prepared for. However, I don't think it is likely that your loss of income can be attributed to "technical problems" at Google.

However I am sure that this nightmare will be over and Google is Best search Engine. No complain ,.. And thanks to GoogleGuy for it's effort to contribute to webmaster world.

If your loss of income is likely to put you out of business, don't wait for the "technical problems" to resolve themselves. Buy adwords and buy it now!

You can work out the SEO/SEM problems later. In the meantime, you need traffic. Get on it right away. If you don't know how to go about it, there are plenty of SEO/SEM types right here. Choose one you trust and ask for help.

Good luck!

heini




msg:141371
 9:05 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Morgan, that is not the question. You are of course absolutely right, relying on Google ranking alone is highly hazardous. In fact the mantra of all such discussions here is: basing a business on free Google traffic means gambling.

So with that out of the way, the fact remains that drastic changes in Google rankings will have a deep impact on small web business.
You wouldn't fight a top5 ranking in Google, would you? If you have that, and your product doesn't suck, then that ranking will make you money. If you lose that ranking, you will lose that money.

Anybody here telling me they do not make any money from successfully optimizing for Google either are not in web business, or have a site that does not converse.

Why is this forum, Google News, the most popular forum on the board by magnitudes? Why do people get all hysterical about Google? Because we don't make any money out of it?
Lets get real.

Lol, reading those discussions I'm often reminded of the story of the elderly victorian lady, her little niche, and the enormous naked pink elephant in the china shop. Whispers the lady: "Stop staring, dear, just pretend it isn't there..."

davewray




msg:141372
 9:14 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

I agree with both sides of the arguement. Google accounts for a monstrous amount of good, targetted traffic to ones website and it's hard not to put "all of your eggs" into one basket. However, in the short time I've been in the "game" of SEO and web marketing, there are many, many ways you can take advantage of that Google traffic while your site is #1-#5. I have a few good, successful friends who are in business online. They don't make the majority of their sales on one-time traffic to their sites. They have newsletters that their visitors can subscribe to. Why rely on new visitors when your own personal, loyal subscribers will put thousands into your pockets each month?! If you put to good use the traffic you get/used to get from Google by way of a newsletter and build up a nice subscriber base of several thousand you no longer have to take "pills" when Google goes haywire...you can rely on income from repeat sales! Just my two cents......

vitaplease




msg:141373
 9:19 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well said Heini,

it is not so much about the eggs and baskets.

its about free money on the street lying there for many months >> grab it and enjoy the ride while it lasts!

Surround




msg:141374
 9:19 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

IMHO, all the time in my SEO practice (more than 5 years) the situation always the same: sometime you win a lot and sometime you lose even more, after that you can gain again. The same thing was with Altavista, Excite, AOL and after all Google...? Unfortunately the only one and most effective (pay/return) way in SEO was only Google for the last months, all other traffic methods are not enough effective including AdWords, Overture. But seems it's time to prepare for big changes, as I guess SEO will die soon forever.

killroy




msg:141375
 9:28 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Some people seem to think people don't use the internet while Google updates it's index. Do you really think people use the internet less? Search leess? Buy less?

I don't really think so. If one is loosign now, somebody else is winning, and you've made a bad SEO choice by overoptimizing for the previous algo. In effect you have "stolen" profit from the underoptimized guys over the last month, and now you're paying for it.

I don't say you're not "loosing" business, I'm just saying it's not Googles business. google delivers just as much traffik, just as many searches, and for the most problably the same quality of searches. We tend to forget the "big picture" of the searching crowd who don't care about particular rankings in particular keywords. If you're loosing out relative to your competitors after an algo update it's really because of risky and bad business decissions on your behalf.

If you sell ice cream all year round, are te sausage vendors stealing your profits in winter? Hardly...

SN

internetbrothers




msg:141376
 9:29 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

>If your loss of income is likely to put you out of business, don't wait for the "technical problems" to resolve themselves. Buy adwords and buy it now!

No way, I wont buy adwords. It does not matter what happens
This attitude only makes search engines more and more expensive. What I am doing is trying to concentrate on other search engines as well. Take a vacation with my family and Relax.

I have seen similary situations even though this is the worst. Google is not every thing. Yahoo still is important and very soon Yahoo is going to change it's result.

I am going to concentrate on Inktomi and alltheweb.

Morgan




msg:141377
 9:38 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

No I do not fight my top 5 ranking on Google. It was number 1 last month, saving me $5.00 per visitor if I used Overture alone. It was great.

I have also been penalized by Google on a different site. I have seen the traffic outside of Google. It's not a cakewalk, but you get creative, and in the end it has become a positive now that it's back in.

So I do know the feeling of hitting a brick wall, and of wanting to hit someone at Google.

And that's the problem-- If you look at the threads in this forum over the last month the vast majority of sentiment is bent towards "Look what Google did to me!" as opposed to "Any ideas on working to move forward?" There is definitely anger and blame directed at Google, and my point is that it is completely misplaced. There are constructive things that can be done. I can look at my lower ranking during this period, look at those above me, and see what I need to do to improve.

It just gets old reading through all these posts and seeing piles of people thinking the only way to the top is spam reporting everyone above them. It'd be great to see some creativity and elbow grease and common sense. It's to the point where Brett could use some "whiner" algorithmic filters of his own to lose some of the noise. I guess I should take my own advice and just look elsewhere if I'm so dissatisfied with what I see.

heini




msg:141378
 9:57 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

>only way to the top is spam reporting everyone above them. It'd be great to see some creativity and elbow grease and common sense
Amen to that.

Iguana




msg:141379
 10:03 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Am I the only person on this forum who has seen the same steady improvement in rankings that I've seen over the past 12 months?

Plus the Google results in my area seem pretty much the same as last month and haven't dropped in quality (and I do routinely check a large number of search phrases).

I feel so left out.

davewray




msg:141380
 10:20 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

Iguana...You sit in a very enviable position :) Actually, I can't complain. I'm a newbie. Having started with zero SEO knowledge 2 months ago my site was first indexed in April and nowhere to be seen in the SE results for my keyphrase. Now I sit at #62...an accomplishment for me! I've always relied on PPC's, so spending money to get traffic is second nature to me. Any freebie traffic from SE's is a bonus :)

Morgan




msg:141381
 10:32 am on May 28, 2003 (gmt 0)

My positions are pretty normal, about exactly where they were from a couple months ago. I'd like last month's back of course, but I'll get there.

I would actually like to see some of these "spammy" results, it sounds like there are still a lot of good opportunities out there.

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