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pay for top rank

 2:50 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

what is the secret behind paid for listings, i have to justify to my boss why i am far more valuable than a paid for guaranteed listing in google, pay £300 and get guaranteed top spot for a key word! i dont wish for an in depth explination obviously for £200 i would but arent they just doing all the things listed in this forum on a seperate page then calling it my frontpage!



 2:56 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I suggest you steer away from them. They are risky, and really dont care about what will happend to your site later...


 2:59 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

If each of your top keywords costs you, on average, say £100 per month, maybe your budget would be 5 - 8 keywords.

However, I have many clients that are in the top 5 positions for competitive keywords that their competitors use paid positioning for, and they are getting 5 times the traffic.

I just got a new client who is getting ~30 - 40 visits per day, using overture and Google. Another of my clients, who is in the #1, 2 or 3 slot for that categories main keywords w/o any paid listings gets an average of 150 visits per day.

Now this is a tourist destination in Mexico, so not as competitive as "plasma televisions uk" or something, but the ratio holds.

edit - i see from the other post that perhaps you are talking about a service that "guarantees" you to have #1 for X keyword. In general they try to give you words that you could get anyhow "polkadot mayonnaise in artisan crafted glass jars". Check the company's site. Check their page rank. Check to see if *they* are #1 for any of the terms in their industry. Chances are they have to rely on email marketing because they have been banned from Google for using their spam techniques.

[edited by: PatrickDeese at 3:02 pm (utc) on May 20, 2003]


 3:02 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

With a paid listing, you can only get listed for that particular term.

When SEO is done, I would assume that you would use a lot of content, which means a lot of text on the subject. Therefore, your site will 'show up' in the listing for all of the variations of that term, including the plural, and all the other ways of saying that term.

Organic SEO is better because ultimately you can show up in the listings for more terms and many different versions of that term. I looked at my list of keywords that people searched for last month on one of my sites and the list had about 18,000 unique terms. Could you imagine what it would cost to pay for all those terms?


 3:11 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

so if i wanted to get optimized for google i would need to optimize my page for all my keywords through these services, thus costing$$$! perhaps my keyword is webmasterworld i could get to the top of google for this search term but for no other veriation of the word!


 3:17 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Lets clarify something,

We are not talking about ad words here, do we?

Are we talking about a company that will host 'your' home page on a different domain?


 3:19 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

well i dont mean ad words, i mean the companies that bombard u with email each week prmising top 10 listings on the top 10 search engines! do they do this by hosting the page on a different server?


 3:26 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

You will have to check on this, humpingdan.

If they just modify content of your real homepage, they just wont cut in. External factors are too important.

If they host 'your' home page on a different domain they can put your site at risk.

Either way, filter their SPAM and turn the page.


 3:34 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Don't even touch any of those people, humpingdan! If you want someone to help you optimise your site I'd suggest sticky mailing Brett_Tabke and asking him for a recommendation on someone to help you. That way you'll get a professional to look at your site and get some real help.

If you want to do all the work yourself, everything you need is here at this site. WebmasterWorld has been worth gold to me.


 3:45 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

i have been approcaed by a compnay where there slogan and selling point is below!
they make a portal which i relevan to your actual site then start genarating trraffic from the methods liosted below , is this a genuine idea, will it actually work? or will the webpage be horribly designed and increase visitors but not sales!?

"We design for you a web portal which will be similar to your introduction web page and then market it. The web portal is linked to your main web site. All the prospects we generate will be targeted at this web portal, where they are re-directed to your main web site. We won't take the credit for other people's work and achievements."

Where we form a relationship we agree to deliver a number of hits to your web portal each month and we bill for each one produced at the agreed rate. Our aim is to generate as much business as possible for you each month and any surplus in hits over our agreed ceiling you will receive for free.


 4:42 pm on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

some of these "guaranteed top position" guys are just unofficial freelance adwords resellers.

I guess if you wanted someone to manage a complicated set of keywords, there would be some circumstances in which it would be worth paying someone to manage this for you.

However I think that they are targeting people who know nothing about SE promotion, rather than people who understand AdWords and just want to farm out the donkey work.

The other kind of people offering this are those who will use spam techniques to push up referrals for a brief period before being banned, pocket their fees on the basis of initial results and then either leave you high and dry or charge you all over again for setting up another shortlived spammy "portal".


 4:17 am on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

If they're trying to sell you keywords in the address bar, I'd be pretty suspicious. If they're just going to make a doorway domain for you, that can have problems. I met one poor person who paid for this, but the SEO company kept ownership of the doorway domain. When she stopped paying--boom, all that traffic started heading to a competitor. I would definitely keep your eyes wide open if you talk to them more.


 8:53 am on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

the company in question, cant find it on google, they hav a grey page rank bar, not bakclinks other than a partner site, they only seem to host a restaurnt portal and no others! this dosent seem like a great image to portray, they also have a statement on ther site where they say!
£we only conatact companies that we feel we can build up a relation ship with, we arent intrested in large coporations, but we feel we can help ur business thrive"

after all its conversion rates that are important really, masess of visitors looking for lloyd grossman finding there way to my site wiill be greatly dissappointed!


 9:33 am on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I think the key thing is to be honest with your clients. In some cases, PPC IS better, but you can offer to manage their campaign for them with your knowledge of the different options. Sometimes using affiliates are better, as one of my clients claims and i have no reason to doubt them.


Optimization is better for:

1. Building a brand rather than sales today

2. When you dont want your clicks to stop after the ad budget runs out. Its long-term and expenditure on opt. must be assessed against future benefits - months, if not years

3. If you want to get exposure for all pages or keywords, not just a few. doing PPc for hundreds of pages for many keywords just does not have good ROI in most cases.


 9:42 am on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm in the great position where I know a 'bit' from here about SEO but am also marketing manager so I get these companies all the time.

The simple question is "What guarantee are you giving me?" - You want a 'guarantee'of a first page listing on Google for your required search term or you don't pay them...they won't go for this.

What they will give you is "A guaranteed Top 10 listing on the Top 10 search engines" - when pressed they will agree that this means a 'worst case scenario' of 10th position on Hotbot or worse.

If they fail to achieve this, you don't pay - so do your budget based on the worst case. My analogy to them is that they are going to buld the best billboard you've ever seen but cannot say which road it will be on - it may be on the busiest commuter route ever but similarly it may end up on a country lane that no-one ever drives down.


 9:54 am on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

>A guaranteed Top 10 listing on the Top 10 search engines

For how many keywords? all the keywords?


 10:02 am on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I've seen a couple of variations of this pitch.

A cost per keyword - Top 10/Top 10 you pay for each word/phrase or the more woolly one where you pick 10,20,30 keywords or phrases and they guarantee to get 1 of them to number 10 in the worst of the 10 engines.


 10:17 am on May 21, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would keep it simple and say if the company has 1st page listings for any 2 of or 3 the following terms, search engine optimization, internet marketing, search engine rankings, search engine submission, web marketing, web site promotion. then pay them, if not find an seo firm that does.

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