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The Google Update Schedule Thoughts
Gleaned from datacenter updates
Critter




msg:218271
 3:02 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey all:

This is a recap and a prediction topic.

Recall that GG said that the -sj index would move to the other datacenters, then we would see backlinks/spam filters applied across the board.

If this is the case, and if the d.c. datacenter (-dc) just got the -sj index (I saw it bouncing around last night actually); and the cable & wireless (-cw) datacenter got the index on the 15th. *Then* it seems we have 2 days for the index to be propagated to each datacenter (this is a worst-case scenario, as the datacenters may be updated in parallel and may all pop up with the -sj index very shortly).

Since we have 5 datacenters left to go, that brings us 10 days in the future for all datacenters to given the -sj index...which brings us to the 27th. At this time we should see the backlinks/spam filters being applied at every datacenter as deltas/patches (if you will) and the real "dance" will be underway. It will, of course, take considerably less time.

Notice that the prediction of the 27th is, in my opinion, a worst-case scenario; we will most likely see things happen sooner.

Peter

 

GoogleGuy




msg:218272
 3:13 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Bringing in backlinks and other data will be a gradual process over time. It won't be an overnight thing once all the data centers have the sj-type index. Once that index is everywhere, I'm looking forward to us bringing in fresher data--but I want to set expectations that it will take some time.

Critter




msg:218273
 3:17 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Alrighty! I think we have a handle now!

BTW, perhaps GG can shed some light on "take some time" for the backlinks/new data/spam filters? Days/Weeks/Months?

Peter

soapystar




msg:218274
 3:18 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

years?

parabola




msg:218275
 3:21 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

This may turn into the June update thread :(

tigger




msg:218276
 3:23 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

It would be helpful if perhaps we could have some indication when these links will start to show after all we are used to seeing an update once a month when our new links would normally get picked up, so I would assume we are looking at within the month?

worker




msg:218277
 3:25 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Have we effectively missed a month here somehow? It's the middle of May, and the update that should have/would have taken place at the end of April, is still in process.

If it finally happens by the end of May, didn't Google just stretch it out and skip a month?

lazyz




msg:218278
 3:25 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Bringing in new links is great but what about the links that no longer exist, old domains etc... the new index is full of it.

parabola




msg:218279
 3:28 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Whenever the subject of a timeline comes up for the addition of recent data, GG warns of a slow process. This is not looking good in terms of anytime this month.

Critter




msg:218280
 3:30 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Brett's update table is gonna have an asterix next to this update...that's for sure.

Peter

Yidaki




msg:218281
 3:35 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

>links that no longer exist, old domains etc... the new index is full of it.

i've got one lame self coded crawler - latest crawl was one and a half year ago ... that is one index, you could complain about - it's full of old domains and links that no longer exist.

However, if you find even a couple of dozens expired links at google, you can't say "the new index is full of it". Don't forget: some webmasters change their mind / content even more often than google's freshbot is refreshing the index and on the other hand some searches return content that has been removed from it's site days/weeks/months ago but is still very usefull. Good thing is: you can look at the content by looking at the cache version ... 404's are a minor problem to me, as long as there's a cached copy of the page.

lazyz




msg:218282
 3:38 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yidaki - This is getting off topic... One of my old domains, no longer pointing to DNS or exisiting on a server prior to last update is in this new index... It was gone from the last index and now in this one. pure trash... (not just one instance, I can find many examples)

Powdork




msg:218283
 3:40 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

So what has happened recently? My site.com was #1 through #3 across all datacenters until yesterday, when it plummeted out of the top 100 on all except whatever is not showing the new stuff.
Whatever part of the 'schedule' occurred yesterday crushed me.

mrguy




msg:218284
 3:48 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

I guess the concept of updating fresh data every month is out the window now.

If it takes over a month to bring in links and data, this is a step in the wrong direction.

Powdork




msg:218285
 3:49 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

backlinks are the sort of data that Google could bring back in over a relatively short time frame.

but I want to set expectations that it will take some time.

Me thinks there may be issues at the Googleplex.

GoogleGuy




msg:218286
 3:56 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would say more than days, less than months. That's just my personal take. A lot of people are paying attention to every microdetail at this point. I would say that stepping back a level of detail would give better insight and less stress. Suppose you're on a long bus trip. If you scrutinize the road for every bump, pebble, or sharp turn, you're going to be more stressed than you need to be.

If people are newer to WebmasterWorld, I'd recommend going back to last September, when we improved our scoring. If you re-read those threads, you'll see the same sorts of reactions that you see now. People claimed the sky was falling. You saw 5-10 people making pretty alarmist claims as loudly as possible. People suggested that scoring changes were a secret attempt to boost AdWords sales. The imminent destruction of Google was predicted several times. A few personal attacks on GoogleGuy took place. :)

We got through that, and re-reading those threads will give you a different perspective on these more recent threads. Take that, plus the fact that I've said 5-6 (9-10?) times that we'll be bringing in better filters and fresher data, and most people should feel better, I hope.

We still use the scoring improvements from last September, but you don't hear people worrying about it now. I'm looking forward to doing a similar post for our next major improvement, whenever that comes: "You know, if you go back to May, you'll see several webmasters were worried about that change too. Would you believe that there were over 4000+ posts from people who were anxious about that change? ..."

Anyway, each webmaster is free to do whatever they want, of course. I do think that people would feel less stressed if they took a step (or two) back though. I think you've seen that somewhat; many of the senior members of WebmasterWorld haven't been doing tons of posts in the Dominic discussions.

Yidaki




msg:218287
 3:57 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Yidaki - This is getting off topic...

lazyz, could be true but it's been a must for me to answer your statement about dead links (you even call it garbage). I don't like these final sounding judgements. Don't get me wrong, i don't say google is perfect. But one searches at google to find things he likes another person searches google to find things he doesn't like. A ole friend of mine is always flaming about google's deadlinks. But he's simply not able to search correctly (allthough he's a real clever software developer). If he searches ie. for form validation using javascript he almost allways ends up finding a nice bunch of useless sites and dead links. If i search for the same thing, i mostly (quite allways) get what i was searching for without clicking behind the 5th result. Doohh ... so, if he says: "google is full of garbage / dead stuff" that's simply untrue! ;)

<added>GG's post above says it all. Thanks!</added>

[edited by: Yidaki at 4:00 pm (utc) on May 17, 2003]

wackmaster




msg:218288
 3:58 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

<So what has happened recently? My site.com was #1 through #3 across all datacenters until yesterday, when it plummeted out of the top 100 on all except whatever is not showing the new stuff. Whatever part of the 'schedule' occurred yesterday crushed me.>

Something definitely happened between yesterday a.m. and today (Sat.) a.m. that was significant for us too.

While most of the chatter (and of course GG's guidance) has implied a process of adding back filters and backlinks, I'm still wondering if part of what we're observing is *testing* of different algo components...not just the application of those components. Why else would they need to do this in so many stages. It seems that they are observing each layer's effect. If that's so, not all of what we see would necessarily go into the final soup...only parts of what we see (not that one can easily tell what those parts are).

But either way, until this settles in, which clearly could take weeks, no one knows where their site(s) will end up in the SERP's. I'll take GG at his word when he says "slow waltz"...

Critter




msg:218289
 4:01 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

To sum up GG:

Watch the calendar, not the clock :)

Peter

nutsandbolts




msg:218290
 4:06 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Bringing in backlinks and other data will be a gradual process over time. It won't be an overnight thing once all the data centers have the sj-type index. Once that index is everywhere, I'm looking forward to us bringing in fresher data--but I want to set expectations that it will take some time.

That says it all, thanks GoogleGuy. I'm much happier with SJ than the others so what you're saying explains why.

Btw, I know you get thousands of them, but can you check an e-mail I sent to webmaster @ google.com - it had webmasterworld and my username in there. Interesting point, no?

GoogleGuy




msg:218291
 4:07 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Well put, Peter. People are free to watch the clock ("Is it 5pm yet? How about now?"), but I think they'd feel better if they took a long-term view. Thanks for asking the questions.

tigger




msg:218292
 4:14 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

thanks for the feed back GG, nice to see you working on a Saturday as well :) Overtime?

europeforvisitors




msg:218293
 4:18 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

mrguy wrote:

I guess the concept of updating fresh data every month is out the window now. If it takes over a month to bring in links and data, this is a step in the wrong direction.[/

I've had new pages added to the index in the last week or two, and the cached version of my home page is from the last time I updated it (May 8th).

GoogleGuy




msg:218294
 4:29 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

tigger, sometimes weekends are easier for making it over here. :)

Hey nutsandbolts, let's try something new. If you have feedback about this index, do a spam report with your nickname, mention webmasterworld, but also include "dominic" in the comments. If people have general feedback or specific examples about this index, that's the best way to get the examples to us. I'm not worried about spammers that were banned and are back for a brief time--that will be short-lived. But if you have comments about searches that seem better/worse (preferably not just searches for your own site), send a spam report with "dominic" somewhere in the comments. We'll read what people have to say when they can give specific searches.

Jammy_James




msg:218295
 5:39 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm quite cool about everything but out of interest which data centre is it best to be looking at generally at present - i.e which one looks into the future the best. I see that DC has been moving all over today. Is sj the centre that is in effect collating all the other results from the other centres.

But for the main part of this long journey I'm snoozing, best thing for long trips! What happens happens, what's the saying - Don't worry it may never happen.

[edited by: Jammy_James at 5:58 pm (utc) on May 17, 2003]

theBear




msg:218296
 5:57 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy,

I see chill pills are still the order of the day.

Cheers,
theBear

tmott




msg:218297
 6:04 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

One of my sites, which was 3 or 4 (out of over a million results) on the main search phrase dropped down to 18 on the new fi index. Of course it is totally unfair and Google *must* be doing something wrong.

On the other hand, that all important search term only accounted for 4% of our traffic, and there were about 600 other search terms that were reaching us each day, so maybe it's not time to jump off of the bridge yet.

Tim

Thomas




msg:218298
 6:06 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy you have got to be one of the last "Good Guys" around. I am not saying this to kiss butt...but think about it. GoogleGuy continues to provide us with information even while the storms of criticism grow. GG has been called a lot of childish things in some of these recent threads. Yet still he wades threw and delivers steadfast help. Granted he is limited in what he can say, but he says it with diginity. And clearly he seems not to act on any childish impulses.

I think this experience enlightens me on the quality personnel that google has onboard. And this my friends is why I predict Google.com to be around until we are all grey, bald, fat, etc.

P.S. - I am buying Google stock when its available..:)

znakedwrx




msg:218299
 6:15 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

GoogleGuy,
You should write down some small FAQ something like google-dance-bible, to save time for others and yourself!
When you say "go back in september and check what did i say then about..." 60% of ppl will be lost in this forum! This forum is huge! I had to spend like 3-4 days of easy reading to understand whats going on nowdays(what/where/how/who).
Also my suggestion is avoid "enigma talk" e.g "I would say more than days, less than months." coz we will end up with 343242 new msgs ;P))

Morgan




msg:218300
 6:23 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

The update process is changing to something completely new, I would guess to continuous updates instead of the old once a month. It makes sense that they would eventually, and they're usually done with features about the time I can even imagine them, so they're right on schedule in my book. I don't think it makes sense to look at it in normal monthly update terms anymore.

I for one hope that's what this is, and I think 6 months down the road we will wonder how they did full updates so rarely. This changeover to whatever is odd, but I don't think anyone can reasonably expect it'll stay like this, or be sure it'll go back to the classic cycle. Just because there was a pattern of them doing something in the past doesn't mean they will in the future.

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