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The Google Update Schedule Thoughts
Gleaned from datacenter updates
Critter




msg:218271
 3:02 pm on May 17, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hey all:

This is a recap and a prediction topic.

Recall that GG said that the -sj index would move to the other datacenters, then we would see backlinks/spam filters applied across the board.

If this is the case, and if the d.c. datacenter (-dc) just got the -sj index (I saw it bouncing around last night actually); and the cable & wireless (-cw) datacenter got the index on the 15th. *Then* it seems we have 2 days for the index to be propagated to each datacenter (this is a worst-case scenario, as the datacenters may be updated in parallel and may all pop up with the -sj index very shortly).

Since we have 5 datacenters left to go, that brings us 10 days in the future for all datacenters to given the -sj index...which brings us to the 27th. At this time we should see the backlinks/spam filters being applied at every datacenter as deltas/patches (if you will) and the real "dance" will be underway. It will, of course, take considerably less time.

Notice that the prediction of the 27th is, in my opinion, a worst-case scenario; we will most likely see things happen sooner.

Peter

 

abcdef




msg:218511
 4:37 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

i love it.

results on www. are variously #1 with an old SERP, #1 with a fresh SERP, than on page 5..., variously during the day.

none of which match the result on the same search for -sj, and -fi. which goes to show at least how little we know know about what is going on with Google right now. if others have understanding of this, more power to you.

cindysunc




msg:218512
 4:45 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Maybe they lost the crawl data, hope not. I remember saying this dance will be more that days less than months, not less than a month but months. Maybe they need to do another crawl. I would like to know if this dance will be done this month or not. Yes or no, no pR spin.

abcdef




msg:218513
 4:46 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

we are but pawns in the impending search engine wars to come... should be fun.

Critter




msg:218514
 5:02 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Perhaps the search engine wars have started...Teoma's crawled over 75,000 pages for me this month...and is still going strong at 2-3 pages per second.

Competition is good...

Peter

Powdork




msg:218515
 5:06 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Perhaps the search engine wars have started...Teoma's crawled over 75,000 pages for me this month...and is still going strong at 2-3 pages per second.

And then Joe Surfer said "Teowho?"

Critter




msg:218516
 5:08 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

LOL

Teoma is the engine that powers ask.com (Ask Jeeves). They're also at teoma.com

Peter

cindysunc




msg:218517
 5:12 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

"And then Joe Surfer said "Teowho?"

Years ago Joe Surfer said "Google what? Whats a Google?"

Critter




msg:218518
 5:16 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Actually, I had known what a googol and googolplex was for quite some time before Google. :)

Peter

Powdork




msg:218519
 6:50 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

I'm hoping the revolution starts on All the Who because on Teowho its more like www.mysite.com..who?;)

Critter




msg:218520
 6:58 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Why do I feel like I'm in "The Grinch who Stole Christmas" all of a sudden?

Peter

Alphawolf




msg:218521
 7:05 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Steve,

1) NetGuy really isn't as stupid as he may now seem. There have been some major changes at Google that he has no control over;

(2) Don't blame him for keeping your websites clean, while all your competitors maintain the top 3 positions using hidden text, link farms, and invisible image maps. His methods will pay off in the "long run."

(3) Don't blame him for not receiving a response on any spam reports, since we are working hard to get a new spam algo introduced in the "next index cycle."

Although this won't make all my clients happy, it would be a start.... In the mean time, I guess we'll just double up on the AdWords.

Perhaps it's a matter of managing client expectations? In going over SERP's with a client 2 days ago I was happy I explained from the start that while I can control the framework that Google has based the algorithm on, obviously I cannot control the actual algorithm.

While thrilled they hit #3 for a phrase they paid $6/click for on Overture, they did not drop the term off Overure. They just reduced the bid to position 5.

The big phrase I've been SEOing for and expected no results this update has been a nice surprise thus far.

Their industry and service is known almost exclusively by one term. In most datacenters it went from page 3 to top of page 2 and 2 days ago hit Page one at #10.

Yahoo had them at #17 *sometimes*.

So, I wanted to share this preliminary info.

While on the phone we went on SJ and they were quite happy, but understand it could mean *nothing* in the end.

So, I ask them to go to Yahoo as i thought it was great they were on mid Page 1 there.

Not only were they not on Page 1 of yahoo, but not within the first 5 pages of yahoo on the server they hit.

No freaking out. No panic. From the client: "Only thing that is certain is we can't rely on Search Engines alone."

Having come from surviving off PPC exclusively it was good I could get their company visible on 1 phrase in turn allowing them to drop down OV a good bit.

The other big phrase- it was just plain 'neat' to see their company listed at #10 on SJ. Perhaps a sign to come, or maybe in the end...not much different from last update.

They'd still be on OV/AW with a Pg 1 Google ranking as they feel it's needed.

Of course, it varies a lot by situation and it's up to us to manage client expectations accordingly.

What were your clients expecting from you? It's tough as there are no "Business guide to SEO/SEM" books on Amazon.

Regards,

AW

[edited by: Alphawolf at 7:10 pm (utc) on May 19, 2003]

rfgdxm1




msg:218522
 7:07 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

>Teoma is the engine that powers ask.com (Ask Jeeves). They're also at teoma.com

According to my logs, ask.com is the #3 search engine, behind Google & partners and msn.com. And, the reason I do so well on msn.com is that I have a Zeal listing that means I come up #1 for all the important keywords. I get significant, although hardly massive, traffic from ask.com. I'd say that Teoma is one of the 2 search engines that has serious potential to challenge Google. The other is Inktomi, since presumably Yahoo will dump Google now that they have bought Ink.

Critter




msg:218523
 7:25 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yup...and I understand that Teoma is now really trying to make its database more comprehensive to get more ppl to use them.

I'm now up to 79,500 pages crawled by Teoma, so I'll vouch for the "comprehensive" thing. :)

Peter

netguy




msg:218524
 8:37 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

Thanks for the in-depth analysis Alphawolf...

BUT, my post was based on uncharacteristically keeping quiet through much of this past month and it was time for some 'venting' - thus the sarcastic comment.

In addition to our own sites, all but 2 clients have been with me for at least 5 years, making a lot of money - so I'm certainly not worried about losing clients. In this mess of an atmosphere, where would they want to go anyway! :)

Fortunately I have always created very thorough marketing programs that rely only marginally on the free SERPs, so I believe we're sufficiently covered for the "more than weeks... less than months" time frame.

My point is that it would have been much better for end-users and webmasters alike, had Google gone through its 3-step 'testing and building' program offline, before introducing it to the public live.

Steve

Alphawolf




msg:218525
 10:57 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

My point is that it would have been much better for end-users and webmasters alike, had Google gone through its 3-step 'testing and building' program offline, before introducing it to the public live.

I do agree with that. But they have a lot of free 'beta testers' here. :(

AW

rfgdxm1




msg:218526
 11:13 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

>I do agree with that. But they have a lot of free 'beta testers' here.

I'll gather Alphawolf that you are another victim of what Google might euphemistically call "collateral damage" in this new algo too? :( This sort of thing should make spamming Google far more popular. Google is just too buggy and broken, and if you play by the rules you may suddenly find yourself buried so far down the SERPs nobody will find you. Tossing up lots of spam sites on the theory one will score will may be a more effective strategy than being an honest webmaster.

wackmaster




msg:218527
 11:15 pm on May 19, 2003 (gmt 0)

<But they have a lot of free 'beta testers' here. :( >

That however, was no reason to unleash these SERP's on John Q Public and set all these poor webmasters on their ear. We could have (and would have) given our excellent advice without this upheaval spilling out into the real world ;-)

Re Teoma, maybe they've been reading all these posts and decided it was a great time to speed up their efforts...

Alphawolf




msg:218528
 12:10 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

rfgdxm1,

I'll gather Alphawolf that you are another victim of what Google might euphemistically call "collateral damage" in this new algo too?

Negative. If SJ went live and was the final index I would be very happy...but I am beginning to feel for those who were caught up in the algo for 'technical issues'.

Maybe if ya do good in SJ then you'll be unhappy when it's all done and vice versa.

wackmaster,

There must be some reason Google's feed was let lose on yahoo/aol already. Mass beta testers.

Re Teoma, maybe they've been reading all these posts and decided it was a great time to speed up their efforts...

I like alltheweb more and more, personally.

AW

GrinninGordon




msg:218529
 12:16 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I would just like to add.

I have two types of web site. Love of my life, and bread of my life.

Love of my life are all within a certain industry, and I have the most unique sites you can hope to find. They are a labor of love. Bread of my life are a few sites I have built to make some $, not in the same industry. They are OK, but I would hardly want to sit looking at them for more then 5 minutes a week.

The love of my life sites seem to be getting dropped massively in this update. My bread of my life sites (I don't have tons), are going to earn me some lovely $.

Am I happy?

Not really.

Anon27




msg:218530
 1:29 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I am still seeing "old" results on yahoo, hmm.

Makes me wonder... about what, I am not sure.
I gave up a long time ago trying to figure out this update other than what GG has said (I do believe his word to be true).

Anyone have a legit insight into why Yahoo has not picked up the "LIVE" Google yet?

GG? Can you share? If not, I understand.

Powdork




msg:218531
 1:39 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Anyone have a legit insight into why Yahoo has not picked up the "LIVE" Google yet?

They can read too, ya know.
Not so sure about AOhelL;)

wackmaster




msg:218532
 1:45 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

There must be some reason Google's feed was let lose on yahoo/aol already. Mass beta testers.

alphawolf, honestly this is the question that most plagues me. They had to know it would shake up the webmasters who run legit sites...hence the theories that this was done in part to get more webmasters to buy Adwords (which I don't buy; too much negative aftermath).

You could conclude that they don't care...and I believe that they don't care about spam-masters, but I expect that they care about the others...it's the others who buy their services, act as unpaid PR agents, etc.

It could be testing and feedback, but they could have got our feedback without releasing this to all of the datacenters...and they could have tested it on a public server without going to all of the dc's.

I really don't get it.

It was either a colossal miscalulation (even 80 PHD's can be wrong)...or more likely there's still something that none of us have thought of, or that some thought of, but most have have not latched on to. eerrggh.

Anon27, no legit insight, just a pathetic guess...if I were at Yahoo!, it wouldn't have taken me too long into this update before I picked up the hotline to the Plex and said "Hey, you smart guys can jerk your own customers around if you wish, but we prefer to keep the best, most recent, and most stable set of results you have for our feed...given that we prefer to treat our visitors as long term customers..."

Anon27




msg:218533
 2:03 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Anon27, no legit insight, just a pathetic guess...if I were at Yahoo!, it wouldn't have taken me too long into this update before I picked up the hotline to the Plex and said "Hey, you smart guys can jerk your own customers around if you wish, but we prefer to keep the best, most recent, and most stable set of results you have for our feed...given that we prefer to treat our visitors as long term customers..."

Wack: That is kind of my thought also, minus the "hotline"...

Yahoo! and Googleplex are about a 2 iron, maybe a 3 wood from each other.

The conversation probably happened at the Krispy Kreme on the corner of El Camino Real and...

Critter




msg:218534
 3:13 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Mmmmmm, Krispy Kreme

Peter

jeremymgp




msg:218535
 3:30 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Hi,

Looks as though all datacenters have the new index except www-in.google.com, which currently has a PR 0. It's plain bizarre, but I guess it gives hope for those folks who have had PR0 inflicted on them for no reason.

Jeremy

Critter




msg:218536
 3:33 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Yup...Roger that. -ex has it now.

Man, one to go then we can get on with new stuff...

This Google update thing works on the same principle as shock therapy. :)

Peter

Anon27




msg:218537
 3:39 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Man, one to go then we can get on with new stuff...

I am not so sure about that, SJ is still doing it's own thing and IN is still there... as I type...

No nails in the coffin yet...

jeremymgp




msg:218538
 3:42 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Man I'm still a new user, think I'll raise my post count 1.

Can't wait for some new stuff either.

Over and out,

Jeremy

Critter




msg:218539
 3:42 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

Ok, Thomas :)

Peter

Anon27




msg:218540
 3:43 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

There you go, EX just picked up SJ...

Dance is still on...

Anon27




msg:218541
 4:15 am on May 20, 2003 (gmt 0)

I re-state:

EX and SJ are not just syncing up, they are very much dancing with new SERPS

This 279 message thread spans 10 pages: < < 279 ( 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 [9] 10 > >
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